Puberty-Blockers, Vision Loss & Closed Gender Identity Clinic for Children (Brandon Showalter; Mark Reynolds; ZeroHedge) [Three Articles]

Creamu · Aug 18, 2022

Lacius said:
Nothing about a trans kid's decision to take puberty blockers itself is likely to decrease fertility.

Any cause that reduces or increases reproductive success in a portion of a population potentially exerts evolutionary pressure, selective pressure or selection pressure, driving natural selection. It is a quantitative description of the amount of change occurring in processes investigated by evolutionary biology, but the formal concept is often extended to other areas of research.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_pressure

Lacius said:
We are talking about children making the wholly inconsequential decision to take puberty blockers,

If it's wholly inconsequential it is a placebo. Although even that has consequences...

Lacius said:
the effects of which can be reversed by discontinuing them.

No, you only live once and this decision certainly adds evolutionary pressure.

Lacius said:
Oppositely, a trans kid who doesn't take puberty blockers may have significantly greater difficulties as an adult, and trans suicides are higher among those who can't get access to health care like puberty blockers.

How about the suicide rates of people that aren't trans but regret their decision to have been involved in such medical procedures?

Lacius said:
Let's not beat around the bush. A person against trans healthcare is a person who is for trans youth suicide.

Yes, they are comic book villians and they want to eat your pizza as well.

Lacius said:
That isn't what puberty blockers do. You could talk about cross hormone therapy doing that, but a.) that's something an adult does, and b.) it's a completely voluntary and informed medical decisions.

Blocking puberty is not an evolutionary pressure? It certainly is.

Lacius said:
Again, no eugenics present. Learn what eugenics is.

Okay, what do you think what eugenics is?

Deleted member 586536 · Aug 18, 2022

Creamu said:
Okay, what do you think what eugenics is?

Have a definition:
the study of how to arrange reproduction within a human population to increase the occurrence of heritable characteristics regarded as desirable.Developed largely by Sir Francis Galton as a method of improving the human race, eugenics was increasingly discredited as unscientific and racially biased during the 20th century, especially after the adoption of its doctrines by the Nazis in order to justify their treatment of Jews, disabled people, and other minority groups.

Tl;dr
Selective reproduction on humans is what eugenics is for a "desirable" trait.

That's not what's going on with puberty blockers.

Creamu said:
If it's wholly inconsequential it is placebo.

sigh

No.
it means that removing them means that it has no consequences on the process of growing up after their use is done. If I was someone who wanted or need puberty blockers. And I was developing as a dude. I would still continue to develop as a dude after stopping puberty blockers.
if however I then took hormones (or started the process of it) before stopping, then it would have consequences, aka, no longer developing as a dude. (or perhaps choosing to use hormones to reinforce it)

Lacius · Aug 18, 2022

Creamu said:
Any cause that reduces or increases reproductive success in a portion of a population potentially exerts evolutionary pressure, selective pressure or selection pressure, driving natural selection. It is a quantitative description of the amount of change occurring in processes investigated by evolutionary biology, but the formal concept is often extended to other areas of research.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_pressure

Puberty blockers don't do this.

Creamu said:
Blocking puberty is not an evolutionary pressure? It certainly is.

The decision to discontinue puberty indefinitely by switching from puberty blockers to cross sex hormones is an adult decision, and it's an informed and voluntary decision.

Regarding suicide rates, I'm unaware of any suicides from anybody who just took puberty blockers and regretted them later. If you don't want to remain on them, you just stop and continue puberty where you left off.

Creamu · Aug 18, 2022

Okay thank you for the conversation. It was interesting to get your prespective on this topic, but at this point we will be moving in circles, since we fundamentally disagree.

Lacius · Aug 18, 2022

Creamu said:
Okay thank you for the conversation. It was interesting to get your prespective on this topic, but at this point we will be moving in circles, since we fundamentally disagree.

You don't seem to understand that suspending puberty in childhood/adolescence is without consequence and merely makes it easier for trans youth in the future if they decide to transition as adults. Fertility rates aren't affected if one discontinues puberty blockers. If an adult makes the informed choice to transition and doesn't care about fertility, that's their choice. If a trans kid can't get health care like puberty blockers, or an adult trans person has a harder time transitioning because they didn't get puberty blockers in their youth, they are significantly more likely to kill themselves. Because of the reversibility of puberty blockers, there's no record of anyone killing themselves I'm aware of from just having used puberty blockers.

You're ending the conversation because you're backed into a wall. You're transphobic, you don't care about trans kids killing themselves, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Your anti-science, anti-fact, and anti-trans posts are literally disgusting, and it's you and people like you that are the reason I post here infrequently. Piss off.

Scarlet · Aug 18, 2022

take a shot every time you read “evolutionary pressure” in this thread, the fun new transphobic drinking game!!!

these threads are always cesspools, it has been fun to read one that’s still fresh. I genuinely don’t understand posts like this. Nobody is here to discuss. Transphobes are still going to be transphobic by the end of it. Human rights advocates are still going to support human lives. Yet we still get the same threads.

Politics section gonna politics. 1am is my ranty time, so apologies for that lol

Creamu · Aug 18, 2022

Lacius said:
You don't seem to understand that suspending puberty in childhood/adolescence is without consequence and merely makes it easier for trans youth in the future if they decide to transition as adults.

There just is a disconnect between us, because I look at it from an evolutionary perspective. How can it be without consequence if it makes it easier for trans youth in the future if they decide to transition as adults. That initself is a consequence. This tells me that we come from completely different schools of thought, which is perfectly fine.

Lacius said:
Fertility rates aren't affected if one discontinues puberty blockers.

Okay, I take your word for it. But even then it is a evolutionary pressure up to this point.

Lacius said:
If an adult makes the informed choice to transition and doesn't care about fertility, that's their choice.

Giving them this option is taking them out of the genepool. That's fine by me, but by going down this road you will eventually end up with a populus without this type of person,if you believe in evolution.

Lacius said:
If a trans kid can't get health care like puberty blockers, or an adult trans person has a harder time transitioning because they didn't get puberty blockers in their youth, they are significantly more likely to kill themselves. Because of the reversibility of puberty blockers, there's no record of anyone killing themselves I'm aware of from just having used puberty blockers.

Okay, I see your point. Since this is going on anyway we will see what will come from it. The blowback you will get if you are miscalcutalting here (not you personally) is going to be extremely costly for your cause.

Lacius said:
You're ending the conversation because you're backed into a wall.

We can go on. I hope you can appreachiate that there is such a thing as diametrically opposed positions. If you think there is some interesting discussion left to be had I am open for it. Don't be disappointed if we are going in circles though.

Lacius said:
You're transphobic,

This made me laugh. I have no fear of trans people, trust me.

Lacius said:
you don't care about trans kids killing themselves,

Yes because I want to eat them.

Lacius said:
and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Im not.

Lacius said:
You're anti-science, anti-fact, and anti-trans posts are disgusting, and it's you and people like you that are the reason I post things here infrequently.

I'm sorry to hear that, maybe reconsider your position.

tabzer · Aug 18, 2022

Lacius said:
You're ending the conversation because you're backed into a wall. You're transphobic, you don't care about trans kids killing themselves, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Your anti-science, anti-fact, and anti-trans posts are literally disgusting, and it's you and people like you that are the reason I post here infrequently. Piss off.

Trans kids are killing themselves because they aren't being given puberty blockers? What do hormones have to do with gender anyway?

To me it seems like the kids are being poisoned with the idea that they are fully in control of their bodies. It's an ideal that disappoints.

LainaGabranth · Aug 18, 2022

KitChan said:
I think it's important that the people who need them have access to them,
But I think it's also important that they're administered with scrutiny and doctors look into what the signs are that it might be the wrong treatment for someone.

They are and they do. In fact it's extremely hard for people to get HRT nowadays unless you're an adult giving like, informed consent and even then it's still a pain in the cock and balls.

Scarlet said:
take a shot every time you read “evolutionary pressure” in this thread, the fun new transphobic drinking game!!!

these threads are always cesspools, it has been fun to read one that’s still fresh. I genuinely don’t understand posts like this. Nobody is here to discuss. Transphobes are still going to be transphobic by the end of it. Human rights advocates are still going to support human lives. Yet we still get the same threads.

Politics section gonna politics. 1am is my ranty time, so apologies for that lol

This. At the end of the day it's not about actually being swayed from transphobic positions, because the science is and always has been solved for over 30 years now (and probably way more, but that goes beyond my time.), all these threads are by the people who make them are empty virtue signals to fellow transphobes to come in and circlejerk about how upset they are they're (rightfully) called transphobes for their awful positions that objectively cause harm to people, not just LGBTQ+ people but also people who are trying to get puberty blockers for other, trans-unrelated reasons such as hormonal issues and thyroid problems.

To put it less verbosely, no one who is against puberty blockers and the like is wanting to have their minds changed. It is all a worthless virtue signal and nothing more.

Creamu · Aug 18, 2022

Can someone explain to me how the rethoric developed that people are afraid of trans people?

subcon959 · Aug 18, 2022

LainaGabranth said:
no one who is against puberty blockers and the like is wanting to have their minds changed.

I really hope this viewpoint becomes archaic in the future. It's far too narrow-minded and anti-progressive. There is no benefit at all in conflating those that are simply ignorant with those that are staunchly bigoted. The amount of times I see someone sincerely ask a question only to be called transphobic.. what exactly is the purpose of that? Even if the majority of the people are not sincere, isn't it still worth the effort to educate rather than deride in the off-chance they are genuinely unsure or on the fence? It's almost like the only plan of action anyone has come up with is to shame people into changing. It's not gonna work.

LainaGabranth · Aug 18, 2022

subcon959 said:
I really hope this viewpoint becomes archaic in the future. It's far too narrow-minded and anti-progressive. There is no benefit at all in conflating those that are simply ignorant with those that are staunchly bigoted. The amount of times I see someone sincerely ask a question only to be called transphobic.. what exactly is the purpose of that? Even if the majority of the people are not sincere, isn't it still worth the effort to educate rather than deride in the off-chance they are genuinely unsure or on the fence? It's almost like the only plan of action anyone has come up with is to shame people into changing. It's not gonna work.

The alternative is actually way worse, which is perpetual cope excuses like "B-BUT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SCIENCE!" and "B-B-BUT IT'S TOO MUCH CHANGE, TOO QUICKLY!"

Which is to say, boohoo. Get over it. Civil rights do not need your permission to be supported.

tabzer · Aug 18, 2022

LainaGabranth said:
The alternative is actually way worse, which is perpetual cope excuses like "B-BUT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SCIENCE!" and "B-B-BUT IT'S TOO MUCH CHANGE, TOO QUICKLY!"

Which is to say, boohoo. Get over it. Civil rights do not need your permission to be supported.

Wanting more trans kids for science is just mad science. Let the kids live without pronouns. Indoctrinating kids is not a civil liberty. At least, it shouldn't be as far as I am concerned.

Creamu said:
Can someone explain to me how the rethoric developed that people are afraid of trans people?

It's an end justifies the means situation. It's not sincere or honest. People will tell you that if you aren't sexually attracted to a transgender person or someone of a different ethnicity, that you are transphobic or racist. It's the current "religion", using attempts to guilt in order to compel. There is nothing understanding about it.

CraddaPoosta · Aug 18, 2022

Some people just don't like being lied to. Has nothing to do with any bigotry or phobia.

Creamu · Aug 18, 2022

tabzer said:
It's an end justifies the means situation. It's not sincere or honest. People will tell you that if you aren't sexually attracted to a transgender person or someone of a different ethnicity, that you are transphobic or racist. It's the current "religion", using attempts to guilt in order to compel. There is nothing understanding about it.

I'm pretty sure there is something religions if not post christian to the whole thing. It's weird. Why should anyone fear transpeople? I can see disgust or horror, for example show someone you know that is pro transitioning operation (or whatever it is called) a video of it and you will very often get a shock reaction that is combined with reevaluation.

Xzi · Aug 18, 2022

Scarlet said:
take a shot every time you read “evolutionary pressure” in this thread, the fun new transphobic drinking game!!!

these threads are always cesspools, it has been fun to read one that’s still fresh. I genuinely don’t understand posts like this. Nobody is here to discuss. Transphobes are still going to be transphobic by the end of it. Human rights advocates are still going to support human lives. Yet we still get the same threads.

Politics section gonna politics. 1am is my ranty time, so apologies for that lol

Can we like...start warning people for thinly-veiled racist/transphobic/sexist bullshit? Even better if we start immediately deleting these threads which have zero substance of their own. Copy-pasting entire articles shouldn't be allowed even if the source provides real news, and Creamu's sources do not.

tabzer · Aug 18, 2022

Xzi said:
Can we like...start warning people for thinly-veiled racist/transphobic/sexist bullshit? Even better if we start immediately deleting these threads which have zero substance of their own. Copy-pasting entire articles shouldn't be allowed even if the source provides real news, and Creamu's sources do not.

If you could do what Creamu does, and post your own sources and commentary, instead of claiming Trump is a pedophile rapist because your anger justifies it, I'd might take what you say without a whole heap of salt.

LainaGabranth · Aug 18, 2022

Xzi said:
Can we like...start warning people for thinly-veiled racist/transphobic/sexist bullshit? Even better if we start immediately deleting these threads which have zero substance of their own. Copy-pasting entire articles shouldn't be allowed even if the source provides real news, and Creamu's sources do not.

Yeah like, it really seems like it's hardcore schizo hours whenever Creamu just mirrors the front page of right wing pseudo science sites to the political section.

Xzi · Aug 18, 2022

tabzer said:
If you could do what Creamu does, and post your own sources and commentary, instead of claiming Trump is a pedophile rapist because your anger justifies it, I'd might take what you say without a whole heap of salt.

What difference does it make if I cite the equivalent of Facebook posts to back my arguments? Trump being a pedo is mostly a personal opinion thing, though there is a fair amount of photographed evidence to support it, and his best buddy was Jeffrey fucking Epstein. Where and when I feel the need to post news articles I do, but I'm not going to become a broken record like the conservatives here.

tabzer · Aug 18, 2022

Xzi said:
What difference does it make if I cite the equivalent of Facebook posts to back my arguments? Trump being a pedo is mostly a personal opinion thing, though there is a fair amount of photographed evidence to support it, and his best buddy was Jeffrey fucking Epstein. Where and when I feel the need to post news articles I do, but I'm not going to become a broken record like the conservatives here.

That's cute, pretending you aren't a broken record. Everyone can see what you'd say a mile a way. There's nothing really to add. You can just let the illusion that you exist carry that legacy for you.

Puberty-Blockers, Vision Loss & Closed Gender Identity Clinic for Children (Brandon Showalter; Mark Reynolds; ZeroHedge) [Three Articles]

Well-Known Member

Returned shipping and mailing

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Onion Soup

Well-Known Member

This place is a meme.

Objectively the most infuriating woman ever

Well-Known Member

@!#?@!

Objectively the most infuriating woman ever

This place is a meme.

Sepatown, my damie.

Well-Known Member

Time to fly, 621

This place is a meme.

Objectively the most infuriating woman ever

Time to fly, 621

This place is a meme.

Similar threads

Popular threads in this forum