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Trump Raid and the End of the United States (Padraig Martin)

smf

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Haha they really don't. The rest of the world laughs at the insanity of American politicians.
Only the republicans.

If Trump did indeed bring classified documents to his residence without permission then he needs to be held accountable.
He did. You could have ended your post there.

He also was elected President and was our President and hopefully is our President again. You're living in a delusion created by your lying masters.
You want a criminal as president and you accuse other people of being delusional?
 

RAHelllord

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They have split longer ago than all human races but they can produce offspring together. It was just an example. If polar bears and brown bears can be considered species, surely humans can be considered races/subspecies:
R-C.0ffc33ceba3267fe4eab02fbe6088e44

Who-Are-the-Pygmies-2.jpg



I´m not calling human races "races" because of a single trait. Pygmys (see above) have the same skin color as some Subsaharan African races, but they are very distinct. You could theoretically create a blond race through isolation but it hasn´t happened. That´s why I don´t call blonds a seperate race. Sweden is pretty blonde (more than 50%). If you took blonds (who don´t have brown hair genes in them which is extremely rare) and isolated them on an island for 10000 years, perhaps I would call them a different race. But hair color would be only one trait that would differ. Races are about gene clusters.

The principle of isolation is the same as with bears:

"Male brown bears swam across to the islands from the Alaskan mainland and mated with female polar bears, eventually transforming the polar bear population into brown bears.
Polar bears are genetically a very homogeneous species, with no evidence of brown bear genes in the population."
"[...]about the evolutionary history of the two species, which are closely related and known to produce fertile hybrids."
https://www.universityofcalifornia....ationship-between-polar-bears-and-brown-bears
Species are created over hundreds of thousands of years and thousands of generations. Polar and brown bears split off over 500.000 years ago, the first homo sapiens sapiens occurred about 160.000 to 90.000 years ago. We are a long way from having had enough generations to create a genetic drift large enough to justify a biological classification into different species or subspecies. Both of us are far closer related to both our first homo sapiens sapiens ancestors and any given living human than brown bears are to either polar bears or their common shared ancestor.

And no, the skin color, hair color, curly hair, and facial features are quite literally superficially cosmetic changes and incredibly minor blips in the human genome.

There's also the fact that we have millions of examples of humans of different ethnicities creating healthy children and exactly one example for polar and brown bears. If polar and brown bears would be more regularly able to produce fertile offspring it would mean the species classification for both would need to be reconsidered as it's a requirement for subspecies to have at least partially infertile male offspring and for species to have almost no or entirely no fertile offspring of any sex.
 

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If you wouldn't call black haired and blonde haired individuals as different "races" then neither are people with different skin colors because the genetic differences are on the same level as hair color.
Skin is the largest organ in the human body, it's color plays an important role which among other things affects oxygen sensors and how much sun exposure is required for vitamin d production.

Hair color is less important and is easily changed.

Although race isn't just skin color anyway.
 

Xzi

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I do want add one thing, if trump goes to jail it will be based on a law he passed.
That might add weight to his sentence, but it's likely they also go after him with the Espionage Act. He didn't just mishandle classified info after all, the only reason for him to hang on to it would be to sell it. Trump's lawyers are also in the shit, because they signed off on a statement saying he had returned all documents that he took months ago.
 
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smf

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Declassified documents still CAN'T get taken out of the official government archives, and it's a crime to do so.
It's just the "I stole the car, but all the owner had to do was ask me for it back" excuse. And as we know, Trump was asked repeatedly.

It's amazing how times change.



Trump took the fifth over 440 times.
 

smf

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He didn't just mishandle classified info after all, the only reason for him to hang on to it would be to sell it. Trump's lawyers are also in the shit, because they signed off on a statement saying he had returned all documents that he took months ago.
I assumed he held onto it because it showed him in a poor light. If he was going to sell it, then he could have copied and returned it. Not stick it in a safe in his own property.

But then the guy is so deranged, who knows WTF was going on in his tiny mind.
 
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RAHelllord

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Skin is the largest organ in the human body, it's color plays an important role which among other things affects oxygen sensors and how much sun exposure is required for vitamin d production.

Hair color is less important and is easily changed.

Although race isn't just skin color anyway.
Skin color is easily changed by tanning or lack thereof, and vitamin D can be supplemented as easily as eating fish once a week. Also, oxygen sensors just need to be calibrated to work correctly, and need the same calibration for tanned people. The difference is literally just in the baseline production of melanin, something every human produces in their skin naturally.

And no, dying hair is not the same as having a naturally different hair color, changing your skin color naturally is much easier than changing your hair color via "natural" means.
 

UltraDolphinRevolution

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Species are created over hundreds of thousands of years and thousands of generations. Polar and brown bears split off over 500.000 years ago, the first homo sapiens sapiens occurred about 160.000 to 90.000 years ago. We are a long way from having had enough generations to create a genetic drift large enough to justify a biological classification into different species or subspecies. Both of us are far closer related to both our first homo sapiens sapiens ancestors and any given living human than brown bears are to either polar bears or their common shared ancestor.

And no, the skin color, hair color, curly hair, and facial features are quite literally superficially cosmetic changes and incredibly minor blips in the human genome.

There's also the fact that we have millions of examples of humans of different ethnicities creating healthy children and exactly one example for polar and brown bears. If polar and brown bears would be more regularly able to produce fertile offspring it would mean the species classification for both would need to be reconsidered as it's a requirement for subspecies to have at least partially infertile male offspring and for species to have almost no or entirely no fertile offspring of any sex.
I was not aware that brown bears and polar bears are of a different species (I knew pandas are actually related to cats more so than bears thanks to the Chinese language). The link I shared claims brown bears mated a lot with polar bears in a region.
In any case, I was not talking about different species of humans. Though there are different definitions, races/subspecies are a level below species, i.e. reproduction is possible (or possible without difficulty).
Races do not need to evolve in isolation over hundreds of thousands of years.

Can you support your claim that races need to have partial infertile male offspring? I only heard of this in relation to the distinction between race and species. If you are correct, then e.g. dogs would not consist of various races because most of them produce offspring just fine.
 

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Judge Bruce Reinhart was appointed by who? The Florida man who ordered the FBI to raid the Trump residence

Judge-Bruce-Reinhar.jpg


'Donald Trump appointed Judge Bruce Reinhart to the position, and he began serving as a judge in 2018. He gave his blessing to the search of the former president’s property.

The Trump-owned Mar-a-Lago in Florida was searched by the FBI on Monday. The warrant they used was signed by Judge Bruce Reinhart. The judge has an extensive legal background in Florida because his career changed from representing Jeffrey Epstein to bringing charges against him.

[...]'

-theancestory

https://theancestory.com/judge-bruce-reinhar/

'[...]

But one local prosecutor described Reinhart — who has been a magistrate judge since 2018 — as “well respected” within the Palm Beach County legal community. Reinhart is married to Circuit Judge Carolyn Bell, a former federal prosecutor who was appointed to the bench by then-Gov. Rick Scott, a Republican who is now a senator.

“He’s a former prosecutor and a defense attorney and he’s also known for being meticulous,” said Palm Beach County State Attorney Dave Aronberg, a Democrat was who elected state attorney but who also once worked for Republican Attorney General Pam Bondi.

[...]

He worked as a federal prosecutor until Jan. 1, 2008, when a day later he became a defense attorney representing employees of Epstein, according to a 2018 story by the Miami Herald. According to the Herald, the employees included pilots for Epstein, his scheduler and a woman who had been described by some of Epstein’s victims as his sex slave. Epstein committed suicide in a Manhattan federal jail in 2019 while awaiting trial for sex trafficking.

[...]'

-Gary Fineout

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/09/judge-mar-a-lago-epstein-00050739

bruce-reinhart.jpg
 

Dark_Ansem

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I find it genuinely hilarious and misleading that people who claim Trumpo would have simply handed the documents over are blissfully choosing to ignore the guy has been fighting the release of his tax returns for half a decade.
 
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TraderPatTX

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Again, it was not. There were no plans to overthrow the Government. It was just a couple hundred people who decided to riot. You know, destroy shit and cause a ruckus. The worse thing that happened was 1 person died and there was some property damage and theft. The leftist narrative that there was some coordinated coup d'etat run by Trump is just another lie. I'm also done talking about the January 6th shit. That's your whataboutism in every thread from your side. You look to distract with a minor issue like a single riot yet ignore tens of thousands of riots from your own side. So like the rest of the lefties I've put on ignore you're now on my ignore list. I don't need your sort of stupid in my life.
Actually, multiple people died. A woman was shot and another woman was beaten to death. Both killed by Capitol Police. Other people died of things like heart attacks when the police started throwing flash bangs out into the crowd.

Not a single police officer died that day.
 
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TraderPatTX

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Judge Bruce Reinhart was appointed by who? The Florida man who ordered the FBI to raid the Trump residence

Judge-Bruce-Reinhar.jpg


'Donald Trump appointed Judge Bruce Reinhart to the position, and he began serving as a judge in 2018. He gave his blessing to the search of the former president’s property.

The Trump-owned Mar-a-Lago in Florida was searched by the FBI on Monday. The warrant they used was signed by Judge Bruce Reinhart. The judge has an extensive legal background in Florida because his career changed from representing Jeffrey Epstein to bringing charges against him.

[...]'

-theancestory

https://theancestory.com/judge-bruce-reinhar/

'[...]

But one local prosecutor described Reinhart — who has been a magistrate judge since 2018 — as “well respected” within the Palm Beach County legal community. Reinhart is married to Circuit Judge Carolyn Bell, a former federal prosecutor who was appointed to the bench by then-Gov. Rick Scott, a Republican who is now a senator.

“He’s a former prosecutor and a defense attorney and he’s also known for being meticulous,” said Palm Beach County State Attorney Dave Aronberg, a Democrat was who elected state attorney but who also once worked for Republican Attorney General Pam Bondi.

[...]

He worked as a federal prosecutor until Jan. 1, 2008, when a day later he became a defense attorney representing employees of Epstein, according to a 2018 story by the Miami Herald. According to the Herald, the employees included pilots for Epstein, his scheduler and a woman who had been described by some of Epstein’s victims as his sex slave. Epstein committed suicide in a Manhattan federal jail in 2019 while awaiting trial for sex trafficking.

[...]'

-Gary Fineout

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/09/judge-mar-a-lago-epstein-00050739

bruce-reinhart.jpg
Magistrate judges are not appointed by the president. They are appointed by a majority vote of the federal district judges of a particular district.
 
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TraderPatTX

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The best part of all of this is the left's confusion about the president's declassification powers and the fact that the FBI was just at Mar-a-Lago back in June and looked at all of the documents there. They even suggested he put an additional lock to secure them. The FBI and DOJ got played last week and exposed for the Gestapo that they are.
 

Xzi

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The best part of all of this is the left's confusion about the president's declassification powers
No confusion, you can't declassify documents after the fact, and even as president he didn't have the authority to unilaterally declassify these particular top secret documents.

the fact that the FBI was just at Mar-a-Lago back in June and looked at all of the documents there.
Back in June Trump's lawyers claimed he had returned all the documents he stole. Since they found more, that was obviously a lie. FBI shouldn't have been treating him with kid gloves even back then, though.
 
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TraderPatTX

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No confusion, you can't declassify documents after the fact, and even as president he didn't have the authority to unilaterally declassify these particular top secret documents.


Back in June Trump's lawyers claimed he had returned all the documents he stole. Since they found more, that was obviously a lie. FBI shouldn't have been treating him with kid gloves even back then, though.
Nobody knows the contents of these documents because they are supposedly top secret, so how do you know he couldn't declassify them?

How could they find more if they looked in the exact same place as they did before?

Your narrative does not make sense.
 

Xzi

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Nobody knows the contents of these documents because they are supposedly top secret, so how do you know he couldn't declassify them?
Because POTUS cannot unilaterally declassify any top secret documents, they have to require a lesser clearance than that. Otherwise he would've been tweeting out national secrets nightly.

How could they find more if they looked in the exact same place as they did before?
They didn't look previously. Just accepted his attorneys' word that they had handed over all the documents.
 
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RAHelllord

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I was not aware that brown bears and polar bears are of a different species (I knew pandas are actually related to cats more so than bears thanks to the Chinese language). The link I shared claims brown bears mated a lot with polar bears in a region.
In any case, I was not talking about different species of humans. Though there are different definitions, races/subspecies are a level below species, i.e. reproduction is possible (or possible without difficulty).
Races do not need to evolve in isolation over hundreds of thousands of years.

Can you support your claim that races need to have partial infertile male offspring? I only heard of this in relation to the distinction between race and species. If you are correct, then e.g. dogs would not consist of various races because most of them produce offspring just fine.
I actually didn't read the article you linked because I thought it would talk about the one documented occurrence in a zoo. From what I can gather the hybrids they have studied in Alaska aren't "new", and apparently started happening at the tail end of the last ice age, which would at least be 30.000 years ago? It's a pity they didn't try to quantify when those hybrids started appearing but chances are the authors simply didn't have the tools (or funding) to figure that out. I'm not sure what would happen with further hybrids between polar and brown bears right this moment, as said we have one documented case from captivity, but apparently also one wild polar bear lady getting it on with at least 2 grizzly bears and producing off-spring. But I can't find any concrete evidence on whether her off-spring are fertile or not.

The term "race" or "breed" does not exist in a biological or taxonomical sense, the classification stops at subspecies, and that classification does require that offspring between subspecies (or subspecies and overarching species) are no longer guaranteed to produce fertile offspring [here]. All modern breeds of dogs are the same species, and there is no subspecies yet. All dogs belong to the species Canis Lupus Familiaris and the "breeds" are considered just individuals biologically and genetically speaking, every combination of parents will produce viable offspring. All possible iterations of the genetic code of the parents are compatible with each other and can be passed on without problem to the offspring.
The best fitting term in genetics would be phenotype (the set of observable characteristics or traits of an organism), though if you want to refer to people ethnic group would be better suited.

Even if the changes appear big, on the genome they are entirely superficial. You're no farther away genetically from an extended cousin than you are from a stranger on the other side of the planet. The changes are that insignificant despite outward appearances.
 

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Because POTUS cannot unilaterally declassify any top secret documents, they have to require a lesser clearance than that. Otherwise he would've been tweeting out national secrets nightly.


They didn't look previously. Just accepted his attorneys' word that they had handed over all the documents.
The president can declassify anything he desires.

They knew exactly what he had there. They even suggested he put an additional lock on it.

Wherever you get your info from, you should quit watching/reading them. They are obviously lying to you.
 
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UltraDolphinRevolution

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The term "race" or "breed" does not exist in a biological or taxonomical sense, the classification stops at subspecies, and that classification does require that offspring between subspecies (or subspecies and overarching species) are no longer guaranteed to produce fertile offspring [here].
You gave me a wikipedia link. Where in the wikipedia link does it say "subspecies are no longer guaranteed to produce fertile offspring"?
It says: "A common criterion for recognizing two distinct populations as subspecies rather than full species is the ability of them to interbreed even if some male offspring may be sterile."

I have no problem with calling human races "subspecies". Why do you?
Interracial do have lower fertility rates btw (https://www.brown.edu/academics/pop...have-lower-fertility-rates-average-qian-finds)
(even though I do not view it as a necessary criterion)
All modern breeds of dogs are the same species, and there is no subspecies yet.
And all humans are of the same species. Then call human races "breeds". I don´t mind.

though if you want to refer to people ethnic group would be better suited.
So there is a distinction after all. Just give me a name for the phenomena that East Asian women bear East Asian children and Australian Aborigines give borth to Aborigines. And if the latter have sexual intercourse with the former, the result is something in between. Give me a name.
We give names to thinks that
Even if the changes appear big, on the genome they are entirely superficial. You're no farther away genetically from an extended cousin than you are from a stranger on the other side of the planet. The changes are that insignificant despite outward appearances.
Nonsense. Unless the stranger on the other side of the planet has a shared ancestry.

Regarding the actual topic: If Trump was hiding nuclear documents, the FBI would not have waited that long.
 

RAHelllord

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You gave me a wikipedia link. Where in the wikipedia link does it say "subspecies are no longer guaranteed to produce fertile offspring"?
It says: "A common criterion for recognizing two distinct populations as subspecies rather than full species is the ability of them to interbreed even if some male offspring may be sterile."

I have no problem with calling human races "subspecies". Why do you?
Interracial do have lower fertility rates btw (https://www.brown.edu/academics/pop...have-lower-fertility-rates-average-qian-finds)
(even though I do not view it as a necessary criterion)
You're going to want to reread that article you linked, the fertility rate in that context is a polite way of saying of how many babies they produce and not whether their offspring are fertile. Humans have access to birth control and interracial couples are more likely to be stigmatized, thus abstain from having children to not have the child be subjected to said stigma.
From the article:
“As interracial unions may generate opposition and receive less social support from families and friends, it is likely that their fertility may be lower than same-race couples. Indeed, our research shows that fertility rates among interracial couples were significantly lower than among racially endogamous couples.”
Not a single word in the article talks about genetics or biology, it's an entirely social observation study.
You're going to have to go to the footnote on the sentence you correctly found on wikipedia to find out why it's a criteria, but the TL;DR is that a big enough genetic drift between the parents will cause offspring to be infertile, until eventually a large enough drift will prevent the sperm and egg from creating a zygote that can survive at all. This is a great marker for speciation as it's a fairly simple way to tell how far apart the genetic code is without actually having to spend money and time analyzing the genomes manually.
And all humans are of the same species. Then call human races "breeds". I don´t mind.

So there is a distinction after all. Just give me a name for the phenomena that East Asian women bear East Asian children and Australian Aborigines give borth to Aborigines. And if the latter have sexual intercourse with the former, the result is something in between. Give me a name.
We give names to thinks that
It's the same reason why every child looks like a hybrid of their parents, with the added baggage that certain traits were more useful in specific areas and thus are more common there. Those are still called phenotypes or ethnic groups, there is no specific scientific term for it.
Also, remember that breeds in animals were specifically selected and bred for traits, the genetic diversity of any ethnic group of people is far larger than of any given breed of animal, up to the point that some dog breeds are basically one or two directly related families only. Part of that is the reason why so many of those breeds have various health issues these days. Forced breeding like that has not happened with humans at large (ignoring incest in european nobility and similar) and thus it's not comparable directly.
The scientific taxonomical classification for all of those is just "individuals", there are only individuals in a species / subspecies as a further grained distinction is meaningless, and that goes for all species and not just humans.
Nonsense. Unless the stranger on the other side of the planet has a shared ancestry.
You have shared ancestry with the dude on the other side of the planet! That's the entire point, and the split from their family line to yours is so recent that the changes are on a similar level. The amount of genetic drift that has happened since a few ten thousand years ago are cosmetic alone and entirely single, short changes somewhere on the genome. Those changes are so small that they're still fully compatible with each other and cause no detrimental effects for the offspring. In order for speciation to happen those changes need to accumulate in clusters on the alleles so that entire sections become distinct, as long as it's only small, individual changes in otherwise identical sections the changes aren't enough to create a large enough drift that it would cause problems to the resulting offspring.

For the actual topic of the thread, legaleagle made pretty good overview of the currently known details and how their legality stacks up from the perspective of the law, it's a pretty good watch:
 

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