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What position or opinion have you changed your mind on, and why?

TraderPatTX

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The "elites have been dividing us on every single line ever" talking point is a very stupid one, because it is ironically more divisive than any other. The divisions in society along racial, sexual, gender, and class lines are very real, and they aren't going to go away with us ignoring them. We have to do something about them, and no amount of arbitrary tying of our living conditions to wage slavery and commodification is going to magically equalize people. "Crony capitalism" isn't real, it is in the words of the creator of capitalism as well as all of its critics, the end goal of capitalism: consolidation of power.

In capitalism, wealth is political power, naturally a system built on arbitrary competition and debt slavery is going to lead to power going to those born into wealth rather than those the system is built upon, the lowest classes, which is why it'd be fucking moronic beyond words (not to mention pretty cucked) to want to build a new system of life around the same oppressive system, but with even LESS regulations for the people in power, the corporations and the 1%.
If the goal of capitalism is the consolidation of power, then why are only socialists, ie. communists and fascists, the ones who consolidate power?

And if consolidation of power is such a concern to you, then why are you against decentralization of power from the federal government back to the states where it belongs?
 

TraderPatTX

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Probably not. I didn't care for either candidate.

You would think after pointing out all the low percentages Kamala and Biden got from their parties alone you'd learn to separate the grouping of most Democrats from the two.



Citizens, moreso than entire governments. Anyone can willingly indebt themselves, but there are quite a few countries that actively pushback against the Federal Reserve Bank.

I'm curious. If you know the FRB is such a big deal, why are you constantly caught up with red v blue debates? Seems like you're purposely misguiding yourself when you're already so close to the answer.



What's so bad about socialism again?



Jesus you can't see the forest for the trees. How are we stuck in a bipartisan situation? Wouldn't just voting a third party into office fix that? Or are we going to try and blame that on Democrats and RINOs too? You're very selectively in your blame for being so anti political establishment.
The countries that pushed back against the central bankers were Iraq and Libya. Remind me what happened to their leaders.

Socialism is a garbage ideology for rich people and college students.

How am I selective in my blame when I continuously blame Dems and RINO's?
 

LainaGabranth

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If the goal of capitalism is the consolidation of power, then why are only socialists, ie. communists and fascists, the ones who consolidate power?

And if consolidation of power is such a concern to you, then why are you against decentralization of power from the federal government back to the states where it belongs?
To the first, factually incorrect because socialists have been and regularly still are killed by the state, even in other countries, for daring to speak out. Weird, huh?

To the second, you can support decentralization of power while also acknowledging some states will enforce objectively bad laws. I am historically read, you aren't. So given that I know Goldwater, a fucking Republican, opposed the Civil Rights Act because he wanted it to be a "States' rights" issue, I have zero reason to suspect that individual states, given the stark conspiracy theories and far right nonsense present in many of them, can be trusted to uphold the rights and liberties of various minorities.

When they demonstrate that they aren't reliant on the government to function, then those states can be "independent."
 

TraderPatTX

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To the first, factually incorrect because socialists have been and regularly still are killed by the state, even in other countries, for daring to speak out. Weird, huh?

To the second, you can support decentralization of power while also acknowledging some states will enforce objectively bad laws. I am historically read, you aren't. So given that I know Goldwater, a fucking Republican, opposed the Civil Rights Act because he wanted it to be a "States' rights" issue, I have zero reason to suspect that individual states, given the stark conspiracy theories and far right nonsense present in many of them, can be trusted to uphold the rights and liberties of various minorities.

When they demonstrate that they aren't reliant on the government to function, then those states can be "independent."
You should read up on who Hitler, Stalin, Mao, PolPot and Castro killed so you don't look uneducated.

That's a lot of words to say you desire the centralization of power in the federal government.
 

LainaGabranth

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You should read up on who Hitler, Stalin, Mao, PolPot and Castro killed so you don't look uneducated.

That's a lot of words to say you desire the centralization of power in the federal government.
Yes I know it upsets you that I don't want bigotry enforceable by states. You'll get over it.
 

TraderPatTX

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Yes I know it upsets you that I don't want bigotry enforceable by states. You'll get over it.
Instead we get bigotry enforced by the federal government.

You can never claim to be against a centralized authoritarian government on this site ever again.

PS - I noticed you ignored the part about who fascists and communists kill, because you know I'm right. It's ok, you can admit it for everybody to see. I promise I won't gloat. :rofl2:
 

LainaGabranth

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Instead we get bigotry enforced by the federal government.

You can never claim to be against a centralized authoritarian government on this site ever again.

PS - I noticed you ignored the part about who fascists and communists kill, because you know I'm right. It's ok, you can admit it for everybody to see. I promise I won't gloat. :rofl2:
Capitalists kill too, but you don't get upset about that ideology. Random people of random ideologies killing people does not reflect on any ideology, be it christianity, capitalism, anarchy, minarchy, and so on.

I hold positions of minimizing bigotry, and the best vector to do that is to override the bigoted states that we both know exist, and force them to support civil rights whether they like it or not. We've done it for years, even to other countries, so unless you oppose the civil rights act (which would be a very, very stupid thing to do) I hope you have a better objection to my position than "durr you can't oppose bigotry at a national level."

I am still against fascism btw :^)
 

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Sending aid to Ukraine. Sorry, but we shouldn't be sending money or intervening anywhere. Idk why were morally obligated to send our money to a government that was considered super duper corrupt until 5 minutes ago. This shit is just a front for globalists to get us into more endless conflict.
 

TraderPatTX

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Capitalists kill too, but you don't get upset about that ideology. Random people of random ideologies killing people does not reflect on any ideology, be it christianity, capitalism, anarchy, minarchy, and so on.

I hold positions of minimizing bigotry, and the best vector to do that is to override the bigoted states that we both know exist, and force them to support civil rights whether they like it or not. We've done it for years, even to other countries, so unless you oppose the civil rights act (which would be a very, very stupid thing to do) I hope you have a better objection to my position than "durr you can't oppose bigotry at a national level."

I am still against fascism btw :^)
Capitalism is an economic model. Fascism and communism are governmental model and are responsible for over 100 million deaths in just the 20th century alone. Learn the difference. You sound like an idiot comparing different models.

I know you are pro-fascism because you cheer on the current regime as they collude with Big Pharma, Big Tech and the corporate. You cheer when corporations push the government's propaganda. What's the marriage between government and private enterprise called again? Oh right, fascism. Own it buddy. It's all your's.
 

Deleted member 586536

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Capitalism is an economic model. Fascism and communism are governmental model
False, capitalism and communism are resource models (methods of allocating resources). Fascism and Democracy are governing ones.
In captalism, it deffer to who has the most money for allocation of resources (CEO's, hands of the few) In communism, it deffers to the hands of the many, or the public. If your going to make the resource wasting argument, capitalism already does that a thousand times over.

maybe stop listening to tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro and actually read up on what your fighting against.
 

LainaGabranth

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False, capitalism and communism are resource models (methods of allocating resources). Fascism and Democracy are governing ones.
In captalism, it deffer to who has the most money for allocation of resources (CEO's, hands of the few) In communism, it deffers to the hands of the many, or the public. If your going to make the resource wasting argument, capitalism already does that a thousand times over.

maybe stop listening to tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro and actually read up on what your fighting against.
See the difference between Trader and any leftist is that a leftist can have a conversation without randomly crying about nazis, where as he literally cannot have a conversation on ANYTHING without breaking down into tears over Biden.
 
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TraderPatTX

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False, capitalism and communism are resource models (methods of allocating resources). Fascism and Democracy are governing ones.
Capitalism and socialism are the resource models, otherwise called an economy. Fascism, communism and democracy are governing models. I give you partial credit.
 

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otherwise called an economy
Economies are specific to capitalism only. So no. Because economies are based off of monetary resources being traded.

Fascism, communism and democracy are governing models.
Also no. Socialism is the means to get to communism. As a result communism is again. A resource model.
(Some people want to just have socialism
Edit: this is bit of a belief.

But it can't stick long term due to capitalists invetibly just breaking the system again by gaining control over whatever governing body is present through monitary means)
(Essentially socialism, progressively decentralizing the system.(moving goods, how things are handled in a capitalist framework)
that when the time comes that it can be safely removed( captalism entirely) without causing infrastructure to crumble. Since captalism has absolutely no overhead as a cost cutting measure)

If you really REALLY believe what your saying. Explain what communism, democracy, and facism are. In your own words. Since they should be destinct. And you should have no trouble making a description of it.
 
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LainaGabranth

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(There are market socialists [like me! hello!!] who believe capitalism and socialist policies can co-exist, communism is not necessarily the ultimate end goal. We just don't have to live in a system where you either work or starve with so much excess production.)
 

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(There are market socialists [like me! hello!!] who believe capitalism and socialist policies can co-exist, communism is not necessarily the ultimate end goal. We just don't have to live in a system where you either work or starve with so much excess production.)
I support your views.mostly. I probably should of stated that I don't think it would last. I see it (communism)as the ultimate end goal. But I know that others don't. At the end of the day I just want a working democracy, and littearly anything better than this (capitalism) system. Even yours. I'd be content with it.
 
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LainaGabranth

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I support your views.mostly. I probably should of stated that I don't think it would last. I see it (communism)as the ultimate end goal. But I know that others don't. At the end of the day I just want a working democracy, and littearly anything better than this (capitalism) system. Even yours. I'd be content with it.
Yeah, this is why I like leftist discourse, because ultimately we want the same goal (a better and ethical life) so our discussions on it (presuming no tankies are involved, but they aren't leftists as much as they pretend to be) end up in places like "Let's just focus on making shit better and we can go for what comes after capitalism."
 

TraderPatTX

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Economies are specific to capitalism only. So no. Because economies are based off of monetary resources being traded.


Also no. Socialism is the means to get to communism. As a result communism is again. A resource model.
(Some people want to just have socialism
Edit: this is bit of a belief.

But it can't stick long term due to capitalists invetibly just breaking the system again by gaining control over whatever governing body is present through monitary means)
(Essentially socialism, progressively decentralizing the system.(moving goods, how things are handled in a capitalist framework)
that when the time comes that it can be safely removed( captalism entirely) without causing infrastructure to crumble. Since captalism has absolutely no overhead as a cost cutting measure)

If you really REALLY believe what your saying. Explain what communism, democracy, and facism are. In your own words. Since they should be destinct. And you should have no trouble making a description of it.
This is so dumb, it brings me physical pain to even read it, much less having to respond to it.

If economies are specific to capitalism only and based off of monetary resources, then explain the following:
Soviet rubles
Cuban pesos
Venezuelan bolivars
Chinese yuans
North Korean wons

If you can't even understand the basics, I'm not going to waste time explaining other basics to you. Do me a favor and don't reply to me and waste my time with idiocy. In fact, just don't reply to me at all.
 

TraderPatTX

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Yeah, this is why I like leftist discourse, because ultimately we want the same goal (a better and ethical life) so our discussions on it (presuming no tankies are involved, but they aren't leftists as much as they pretend to be) end up in places like "Let's just focus on making shit better and we can go for what comes after capitalism."
The problem with the left is that you equate capitalism with the central banking system. They are in fact, not the same.

It continues to amaze me watching you all rail against corporations, which there are many, but refuse to talk about the select few central bankers who control the actual money supply. I've seen you people actually defend central banks even with the knowledge that they start wars and lend money to both sides to make sure they never lose. They have devalued our currency for over a hundred years.

You guys can't see the forest for the trees because the state-run corporate media (fascism) tells you where to focus your attention. Don't let them program you, program yourself. We have common ground here. All you have to do is recognize it. A united country and world is what they fear most.
 

LainaGabranth

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The problem with the left is that you equate capitalism with the central banking system. They are in fact, not the same.

It continues to amaze me watching you all rail against corporations, which there are many, but refuse to talk about the select few central bankers who control the actual money supply. I've seen you people actually defend central banks even with the knowledge that they start wars and lend money to both sides to make sure they never lose. They have devalued our currency for over a hundred years.

You guys can't see the forest for the trees because the state-run corporate media (fascism) tells you where to focus your attention. Don't let them program you, program yourself. We have common ground here. All you have to do is recognize it. A united country and world is what they fear most.
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know bankers were the ones who were stealing water from other countries and selling them back to people on the other side of the planet. I'll have to update my hitlist to include whatever scapegoat you mentally ill weirdos want to go after.
 
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TraderPatTX

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Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know bankers were the ones who were stealing water from other countries and selling them back to people on the other side of the planet. I'll have to update my hitlist to include whatever scapegoat you mentally ill weirdos want to go after.
Well, I guess even when I'm being nice, you are still gonna hurl those insults, huh toots. You are so blinded by hatred, you can't even bring yourself to even sort of agree with somebody on the right. I guess you must be part of the 6-8% who will just never get it, ignoring all evidence placed in front of you. I actually feel sorry for you. I would hate to live like that.
 

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