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Free Speech is Democracy's Downfall (Sean Illing) [Original Title: Free speech is essential for democracy. Could it also be democracy’s downfall?]

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Creamu

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I'll turn thr question on you:
I will answer your question, but to be clear, I was talking about the caducean divide/rule of the establishment.

what do you make of those fanatics fascists that haunt these forums and happily claim they'd beat up "alphabet people" and murder others and rape their wives just because they think differently than them?
To people that take this particular position I would ask them if they are serious or what this is about, because those suggestions are not very appealing.

Aren't those the signs of cult mentality and radicalisation to quasi terrorist behaviour?
Cult? No, it sounds more like either shitposting or deranged individuals. To call this a cult you would need to demonstrate a coherent movement of wife rapers in this case.
 
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TraderPatTX

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I literally cannot find any source claiming this except you. It's not even in Fox News articles about the bill.


Oh okay, so it's just bullshit you picked up on 8chan or something. Thanks for clarifying.


How predictably disingenous. As if the executive has no part whatsoever in proposing bills or ratifying them into law. :rolleyes:
There are tons of stories in the state-run media denying that it increases taxes. Which as we all know with their 11% trust by the people, are liars.

Proposing bills and passing bills are two different things. Please go read and learn that difference. I'm getting real tired of having to explain the simplest of concepts to you.
 
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Xzi

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Proposing bills and passing bills are two different things.
No shit Sherlock, and the executive both can propose legislation and does sign bills into law. Trump could've just as easily vetoed it if he didn't like it, but if there's one thing he loves it's grifting the poors, which is why the corporate tax cuts stay permanent but middle and lower income tax brackets slowly increase to higher than what they were before. Stop being an idiotic sycophantic simp for anybody, let alone that geriatric orange sack of shit.
 

TraderPatTX

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No shit Sherlock, and the executive both can propose legislation and does sign bills into law. Trump could've just as easily vetoed it if he didn't like it, but if there's one thing he loves it's grifting the poors, which is why the corporate tax cuts stay permanent but middle and lower income tax brackets slowly increase to higher than what they were before. Stop being an idiotic sycophantic simp for anybody, let alone that geriatric orange sack of shit.
You obviously still do not understand how bills are passed, hence the insults. Trump signed what the RINO's passed. Talk to me when you learn to speak like an adult. While you're at it, go watch Schoolhouse Rocks.

PS. Your TDS is showing. Calm down. Maybe take up meditation.
 
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TraderPatTX

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LMAO this is 100% what Republicans stand for, including Trump. RINO my ass.
The Dems and Biden had a perfect opportunity to make the tax cuts permanent for the middle class. They chose not to. You gonna ever bring up that point or continue spouting nonsense about something that happened 6 years ago? If the Dems truly were for the little guy, they would eliminate income taxes for everybody making less than $400k, but they never do. And you'll never call them out on it. It's always "bUt DrUmPf" with you people, which makes me wonder why you always look to him to get things done when it's your party who is in complete control of passing laws for almost 2 years now. Weird.
 

Xzi

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The Dems and Biden had a perfect opportunity to make the tax cuts permanent for the middle class. They chose not to. You gonna ever bring up that point or continue spouting nonsense about something that happened 6 years ago? If the Dems truly were for the little guy, they would eliminate income taxes for everybody making less than $400k, but they never do. And you'll never call them out on it. It's always "bUt DrUmPf" with you people, which makes me wonder why you always look to him to get things done when it's your party who is in complete control of passing laws for almost 2 years now. Weird.
Dems are more about preventing progress from the left than actually opposing the right or its slow descent into fascism. Of course I call them out on it, they're largely useless centrists. That said, the blame falls much less on them for failing to undo shit legislation than it does on the people who created, sponsored, and approved it in the first place. If you choose to ignore that truth and keep falling for every Republican-backed grift, so be it. I can't fix chronic stupidity and gullibility.
 

TraderPatTX

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Dems are more about preventing progress from the left than actually opposing the right or its slow descent into fascism. Of course I call them out on it, they're largely useless centrists. That said, the blame falls much less on them for failing to undo shit legislation than it does on the people who created, sponsored, and approved it in the first place. If you choose to ignore that truth and keep falling for every Republican-backed grift, so be it. I can't fix chronic stupidity and gullibility.
You are really falling on your sword to shift blame from your Dem masters. It's not a good look buddy. All that had to happen, at a minimum, was they could have extended the tax cuts for another 2 years. Instead, they raised them, during a recession with record inflation. I realize that your brain is programmed to be a partisan shill and your understanding of even basic economics is on par with your understanding of basic civics, but it's generally a bad idea to do this.

Not to mention hiring another 87,000 IRS agents knowing that three quarters of audits are against people making less than $100k. The people who can't afford high priced accountants and lawyers. The people the Dems say they support and want to help.

I'll have to disagree with you about not being able to fix chronic stupidity and gullibility. I'm confident that you can overcome them with time spent reading instead of whatever it is that you do here. Just the fact that taxes had to be cut in 2017 because they were raised during a Dem presidency shows the fallacy of your argument.
 
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UltraDolphinRevolution

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This doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Authoritarians always want to limit or eliminate the right to free speech, regardless of whether they identify as communist or fascist, and regardless of whether they hold power at a given time. Since we don't have a leftist party in the US, let alone a far left one, the vast majority of authoritarian thinkers flock to the Republican party.
You are a victim of party politics. I´m talking about the big picture. What I said is absolutely correct:
Humans as a collective are less tolerant when they are in power. The ´68 generation was against banning rock songs that displeased their parents. Today, the ´68 generation is in power and wants to ban songs they deem offensive, e.g. the song Layla in Germany at the moment. The line "La la la Layla, she was more beautiful, younger, hotter" is too offensive to the ´68 generation because it objectifies women, they claim.
 
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TraderPatTX

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Lol talking about tax cuts as if they helped the poorest: they don't. They only help the rich and well off.
So you are saying people keeping more of their paycheck does not help them provide for their families? Is that your final answer, because I would love to hear you explain how a single mother with a gross pay of $2,000 a month and paying say, $200 a month in taxes, would not benefit from that extra $200 each month? In a normal economy, that could be gas money for the entire month. How would a rich person benefit from a middle class tax cut? Please provide details. This should be good.
 

Deleted member 586536

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So you are saying people keeping more of their paycheck does not help them provide for their families?
TraderPaTX101:
Misconstrue the argument.
Anyways (since he did block me)
No, that's not what he said.
Lol talking about tax cuts as if they helped the poorest: they don't.
The implication is "passed and passable"
Both democrats and Republicans/maga are owned by corporations. They'll state they'll cut taxes, but in reality, as we saw with the 2017 tax situation, they don't (for the rest of us). It's incredibly unlikely that they will ever allow for an actual tax cut on poor people in full long term.
If you remember the 2017 tax situation did actually cut taxes for lower income people, and rich people. HOWEVER, the bracket that affects lower income earners in the legislation was set to increase from 2021-2027 in that same bill, to levels higher than what they were pre tax cut. While the brackets for richer income people, had no stipulation like that.
 
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TraderPatTX

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TraderPaTX101:
Misconstrue the argument.
Anyways (since he did block me)
No, that's not what he said.

The implication is "passed and passable"
Both democrats and Republicans/maga are owned by corporations. They'll state they'll cut taxes, but in reality, as we saw with the 2017 tax situation, they don't. It's incredibly unlikely that they will ever allow for an actual tax cut on poor people in full long term.
If you remember the 2017 tax situation did actually cut taxes for lower income people, and rich people. HOWEVER, the bracket that affects lower income earners in the legislation was set to increase from 2021-2027 in that same bill, to levels higher than what they were pre tax cut. While the brackets for richer income people, had no stipulation like that.
You've been reduced to replying to me in short simple phrases that lack even context. :rofl2:
 
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Deleted member 586536

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You've been reduced to replying to me in short simple phrases that lack even context. :rofl2:
Ah right I forgot that your a bit smooth brained and lack basic reading comprehension.
[Your comment]
TraderPaTX101:
Misconstrue the argument.
Anyways (since he did block me)
No, that's not what he said.
[comment trader was replying to]
The implication is "passed and passable"
Both democrats and Republicans/maga are owned by corporations. They'll state they'll cut taxes, but in reality, as we saw with the 2017 tax situation, they don't. It's incredibly unlikely that they will ever allow for an actual tax cut on poor people in full long term.
If you remember the 2017 tax situation did actually cut taxes for lower income people, and rich people. HOWEVER, the bracket that affects lower income earners in the legislation was set to increase from 2021-2027 in that same bill, to levels higher than what they were pre tax cut. While the brackets for richer income people, had no stipulation like that.

Maybe next time read the full response? Since surprise, I gave context.
 
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Deleted member 586536

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The back and forth you two are having is really sweet in a way.
more like a reoccurring headache. I don't think I have to explain how laying out an argument works. But here we are with trader refusing to be a honest actor. Since the layout of my argument literately is (boiled down simply)

Traders response to someone else
Me pointing out that his response is misconstruing that persons argument. (which he's done before)
comment that he misconstrued (providing context)
Me explaining how it was a misconstrued.
literately that simple.
 
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Dark_Ansem

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So you are saying people keeping more of their paycheck does not help them provide for their families? Is that your final answer, because I would love to hear you explain how a single mother with a gross pay of $2,000 a month and paying say, $200 a month in taxes, would not benefit from that extra $200 each month? In a normal economy, that could be gas money for the entire month. How would a rich person benefit from a middle class tax cut? Please provide details. This should be good.
That's not what I said but hey, what else to expect from the guy who claims with granitic certainty that the Unites States were always meant to be a Republic but not a democracy, claiming that the answer is "in a book" but failing to specify which book (Mein Kampf?), since pretty much any US Law book will argue that the US were always meant to be a democracy. But you know better don't you? You and your ridiculous claims made in other threads, as well.

So yeah, I could explain it to you, but you're both too much of an imbecile AND a bad faith actor to engage not even constructively, but with civility. So why bother, since you're gonna reply half a minute later with some half arsed lie and insult?
 
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