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Roe V Wade has been repealed

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Nah, because I don't think I disagree on that. But I won't say that the rapist is "winning" either.
Umm, yeah the rapist does win. Sure, he looses the legal battle, but the material battle? No he fucking won. He got to impregent a women and force her to birth his child. The women just straight up looses on that front. She has to deal with the physical and mental trauma of that. And it doesn't even get to be her own kid, that's fucked.
 

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I get that it is a shitty situation. I just find that a 10 year old getting pregnant is more shitty. If government needs to make laws about what should happen if you are an impregnated 10 year old, then anarchy has already won the moral position.
They didn't have to make a law, they chose to make a law that prevented a 10 year old getting an abortion & you are supporting that law. Roe V Wade was a law that prevented laws being passed that would prevent a 10 year old getting an abortion, it was overturned.

You live in a world where 10 year olds will need an abortion. You can't just pretend that it doesn't happen.

There are plenty more shitty situations where people need abortions.
 
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Foxi4

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You can have multiple DNA within the same body, it doesn't prove anything.

It's only when the brain develops that there is any argument that it's a separate life form. Which is basically Roe V Wade.
Nonsense. Having a brain is not a prerequisite for something being a life form - many life forms have no brain at all at some or all stages of development. Not having a brain is a justification for abortion, which is fair - it is not a prerequisite for life. Arguing that a fetus “isn’t alive” or isn’t a separate human life form is unscientific and disingenuous. There’s no set definition of what life constitutes that all scientists agree on, but if we go by the American standard, life equals taking in nutrients and growing. Fetuses do that.
 

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Umm, yeah the rapist does win. Sure, he looses the legal battle, but the material battle? No he fucking won. He got to impregent a women and force her to birth his child. The women just straight up looses on that front. She has to deal with the physical and mental trauma of that. And it doesn't even get to be her own kid, that's fucked.

No. I'm not going to go that deep with you. Sorry. A rapist will have to pay for the child if the child exists. Trying to argue that someone should be denied their possible kink or be proclaimed as a winner is as immaterial as it gets.

They didn't have to make a law, they chose to make a law that prevented a 10 year old getting an abortion & you are supporting that law. Roe V Wade was a law that prevented laws being passed that would prevent a 10 year old getting an abortion, it was overturned.

You live in a world where 10 year olds will need an abortion. You can't just pretend that it doesn't happen.

There are plenty more shitty situations where people need abortions.

AFAIK the law already existed since before RvW and now the states have to play catch up with their legislation. I'm not pretending that a 10 year old shouldn't be allowed an abortion, or a surgical procedure that alleviates her condition. I'm arguing that child rape is a bigger issue.
 

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A rapist will have to pay for the child if the child exists. Trying to argue that someone should be denied their possible kink or be proclaimed as a winner is as immaterial as it gets.
excuse me... what.
Do you not understand the concept of like, material matters? Like... you know, causing Truma on someone for a good chunk of their life is maybe idk, a material thing that happened? And that we should try to alivate that truama? And in this case, getting an abortion? So she doesn't have to go through more trauma???
 
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Xzi

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Nonsense. Having a brain is not a prerequisite for something being a life form - many life forms have no brain at all at some or all stages of development. Not having a brain is a justification for abortion, which is fair - it is not a prerequisite for life. Arguing that a fetus “isn’t alive” or isn’t a separate human life form is unscientific and disingenuous. There’s no set definition of what life constitutes that all scientists agree on, but if we go by the American standard, life equals taking in nutrients and growing. Fetuses do that.
Life =/= human life. There needs to be some common frame of reference there, at least the ability to understand one's own surroundings and existence on a base instinctual level. Otherwise yes, the fetus is alive, but it could just as easily be considered the same as the fetus of any other mammal. For that matter, even worms have hearts.
 
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No but scientists also point out our complex brains as what makes us, us. That's like, our defining trait as a species outside of the opposable thumb
You misunderstand the objection. I have no objections to abortion prior to the brain developing and becoming active - the brain is what makes us a person. What I objected to was comparing the removal of a fetus to cutting hair or fingernails - the two bodies are not one and the same, saying otherwise is verifiably incorrect.
 
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Dark_Ansem

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Having a brain is not a prerequisite for something being a life form - many life forms have no brain at all at some or all stages of development.
Indeed, just look at conservatives - reactionary. No cerebral activity whatsoever, amoebas could definitely provider better interactions.
 
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Xzi

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The irony is that the conservative argument against abortion has to appeal to emotion rather than to logic or science, something they denigrate liberals for doing often. Then again, we all know how much they like to project.
 

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excuse me... what.
Do you not understand the concept of like, material matters? Like... you know, causing Truma on someone for a good chunk of their life is maybe idk, a material thing that happened? And that we should try to alivate that truama? And in this case, getting an abortion? So she doesn't have to go through more trauma???
Can you try reading to the end of a post before responding?
 

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AFAIK the law already existed since before RvW and now the states have to play catch up with their legislation. I'm not pretending that a 10 year old shouldn't be allowed an abortion, or a surgical procedure that alleviates her condition. I'm arguing that child rape is a bigger issue.
There will be people under the age of adulthood who get pregnant and require abortions. Murder is illegal, there are still murders. It's a problem that will need to be dealt with.

Some states have recently introduced laws to ban abortions. They knew what the outcome will be, they did not care.

You misunderstand the objection. I have no objections to abortion prior to the brain developing and becoming active - the brain is what makes us a person. What I objected to was comparing the removal of a fetus to cutting hair or fingernails - the two bodies are not one and the same, saying otherwise is verifiably incorrect.
They both come from a human body. One has the ability to turn into a new human during pregnancy, the other currently does not. That is the only difference.
 
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Life =/= human life. There needs to be some common frame of reference there, at least the ability to understand one's own surroundings and existence on a base instinctual level. Otherwise yes, the fetus is alive, but it could just as easily be considered the same as the fetus of any other mammal. For that matter, even worms have hearts.
There needs to be some reading going on, if anything. Read what I was objecting to instead of telling me things I know. As for the comment, it is human life - it is human (genetically) and it is alive (which we agree on). We can only argue whether it’s sentient or not, which is a different discussion.
Indeed, just look at conservatives - reactionary. No cerebral activity whatsoever, amoebas could definitely provider better interactions.
Basic biology was never the strong suit of liberals.
They both come from a human body. One has the ability to turn into a new human during pregnancy, the other currently does not. That is the only difference.
As long as we agree there is a difference, I’m quite happy.
 
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smf

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There needs to be some reading going on, if anything. Read what I was objecting to instead of telling me things I know. As for the comment, it is human life - it is human (genetically) and it is alive (which we agree on). We can only argue whether it’s sentient or not, which is a different discussion.
Basic biology was never the strong suit of liberals.
As long as we agree there is a difference, I’m quite happy.
If you define human life as something that is alive which has human DNA then my finger nails and hair are human life too.

I've cut them off, they aren't part of my body.
 
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smf

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I agree, advanced biology is clearly more interesting, and well beyond reactionary brain capacity.
It's kinda more philosophical than biological, I know that an egg and sperm can turn into a human being while hair and finger nails on their own cannot. But if scientists could clone you from a hair sample, then does that change things?

Pro lifers seem to think of fetus as magic. I'm more pragmatic, once they are viable then they definitely are a person. Before that, things like sentience will guide me.
 

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If you define human life as something that is alive which has human DNA then my finger nails and hair are human life too.

I've cut them off, they aren't part of my body.
I know you’re being facetious, but I’ll humor you and “Explain like You’re 5”, as the Internet saying goes. Yes, *you* are a human life form (although some might have doubts about the human part) and you have body parts which you can remove. These parts generally cease being alive as soon as that happens. I don’t know (or care) how *you* define life, I posted the accepted definition that I (and NASA) use to determine whether something is alive or not. Your fingernails or hair have no means of absorbing nutrients and using them to grow/procreate. Moreover, a simple test can (again) determine the ownership of those fingernails and that hair - they’re yours. In conclusion, no, they’re not separate life forms.

It's kinda more philosophical than biological, I know that an egg and sperm can turn into a human being while hair and finger nails on their own cannot. But if scientists could clone you from a hair sample, then does that change things?

Pro lifers seem to think of fetus as magic. I'm more pragmatic, once they are viable then they definitely are a person. Before that, things like sentience will guide me.
Neither type of gamete contains a complete human genetic sequence - they contribute half each. It is the combination of those two halves that creates a *new* life form dissimilar from both donors. You can’t argue that a sperm or eggs are separate life forms - they’re cells that the host expels for the purposes of procreation. There’s nothing “philosophical” about it, it can be scientifically determined.
I agree, advanced biology is clearly more interesting, and well beyond reactionary brain capacity.
From the party that brought us “birthing persons” comes the long-awaited sequel - “reactionary brains”. It’s almost a compliment.
 
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