Roe V Wade has been repealed

tabzer · Jul 2, 2022

The Catboy said:
I am still wondering how the “small government” crowd is ok with this happening. Shouldn’t they be against states regulating what people can do to their bodies or is only big government when it’s a federal law protecting people? It seems like the “small government” crowd really seems to focus on laws that protect people from the government but turn a blind eye the second states enact actual laws restricting people.

Diversity is a good thing. Decentralizing government is progress. I'd like to live in a community where abortion isn't celebrated. Maybe you are different.

"I have to ask, how do you or anyone else plan on stopping abortions? I’ve said this countless times before, history and current events show that abortions are going to continue to happen"

Replace the abortion with murder. Is the idea that "it's going to happen anyway, so let's facilitate it" actually a rational argument to you?

tabzer · Jul 2, 2022

SyphenFreht said:
It offers nothing of value to society

Spoken like a true capitalist.

SyphenFreht · Jul 2, 2022

tabzer said:
Spoken like a true capitalist.

Merely a reflection of the society we live in. Me personally, I wouldn't mind a little more socialism

AlexMCS · Jul 2, 2022

tabzer said:
Replace the abortion with murder. Is the idea that "it's going to happen anyway, so let's facilitate it" actually a rational argument to you?

Oh, you'd be surprised, as many, MANY people think just like that. It exacerbates a pervasive issue in the morality of a society that can't avoid its vices: lack of discipline.

And looking from that PoV, I agree that it is better to have legal drugs, alcohol, abortion, prostitution, any other vice or controversial behavior legalized since we'd avoid the consequences of those who'd break the law for it anyway AND get some government revenue off it, which could be better used in other areas. The problem is that this PoV itself is wrong - it's an admission of cowardice, a moral failure.

We currently live in a world that abhors sacrifices and laughs at asceticism. Where instant gratification is the norm and pain is vilified. You can never expect the majority of such a society to hold higher standards.

The mental gymnastics some people do to justify killing other (unborn) people is amazing as well.

tabzer · Jul 2, 2022

SyphenFreht said:
Merely a reflection of the society we live in.

You live in. Even then, your society is in a state of "arbitrary social construct" so there isn't consensus to your claim. Don't be so arrogant.

tabzer · Jul 2, 2022

AlexMCS said:
Oh, you'd be surprised, as many, MANY people think just like that. It exacerbates a pervasive issue in the morality of a society that can't avoid its vices: lack of discipline.

And looking from that PoV, I agree that it is better to have legal drugs, alcohol, abortion, prostitution, any other vice or controversial behavior legalized since we'd avoid the consequences of those who'd break the law for it anyway AND get some government revenue off it, which could be better used in other areas. The problem is that this PoV itself is wrong - it's an admission of cowardice, a moral failure.

We currently live in a world that abhors sacrifices and laughs at asceticism. Where instant gratification is the norm and pain is vilified. You can never expect the majority of such a society to hold higher standards.

The mental gymnastics some people do to justify killing other (unborn) people is amazing as well.

I see virtue in letting people to explore their free will, to a point. When it starts involving beings that do not (or cannot) consent, then the protection of law provides something of value. An example of the opposite; the idea that suicide is illegal, so therefore someone will be held liable reads like a slaver's law.

SyphenFreht · Jul 2, 2022

tabzer said:
You live in. Even then, your society is in a state of "arbitrary social construct" so even then, there isn't consensus to your claim. Don't be so arrogant.

Arrogance? From someone who argues semantics rather than the topic at hand?

Call it what you will, capitalism operates under the assumption that all who reside within contribute and therefore add value to the overall system. The only reason why child labor was eliminated was because people found more value in indoctrinating them with silly concepts like "religion" and "patriotism" than actually getting them to provide worthwhile labor.

So again. At what point is the baby's life valuable to anyone other than the immediate parents?

tabzer said:
I see virtue in letting people to explore their free will, to a point. When it starts involving beings that do not (or cannot) consent, then the protection of law provides something of value. An example of the opposite; the idea that suicide is illegal, so therefore someone will be held liable reads like a slaver's law. Women don't consent to forced births. At some point you're saying the mother's life is irrelevant to your demand for control.

And at some point you're saying that the mother's life is irrelevant to your demand for control over her body.

titan_tim · Jul 2, 2022

There's the common argument about bodily autonomy which is a very powerful point against anti-choice people. Basically if your family member was sick, and needed a blood transfusion for 9 months to live, and you're the only one genetically capable of giving the transfusion. Should the government be allowed to force someone to save the other person.

I'm pro-choice, but I can still steel-man the argument a bit. It's a good argument, but lacks the moral obligation of being the cause of the issue in the first place. A better addition to the theoretical would be if you were the cause of a car accident that put your family member into the hospital in the first place.

With that change, a person should feel morally obligated to help that family member. BUT, that still shouldn't mean that a government should force you to do it. Just because you should, doesn't mean you must.

tabzer · Jul 2, 2022

SyphenFreht said:
Arrogance? From someone who argues semantics rather than the topic at hand?

I'm directly addressing the topic. Your arrogance is in thinking that your view is not only an American view (it's not), but that it's global or universal.

SyphenFreht said:
Women don't consent to forced births. At some point you're saying the mother's life is irrelevant to your demand for control. And at some point you're saying that the mother's life is irrelevant to your demand for control over her body.

First, women consent to pregnancy in varying degrees. "Forced birth" implies forced impregnation, which is rape. Second I never suggested that a "mother's" life is irrelevant nor assumed to demand control over another's body.

SyphenFreht said:
At what point is the baby's life valuable to anyone other than the immediate parents?

I pity you and the society that you want to believe in.

Dark_Ansem · Jul 2, 2022

Well that was fast: https://eu.dispatch.com/story/news/...g-patients-going-indiana-abortion/7788415001/

tabzer · Jul 2, 2022

Dark_Ansem said:
Well that was fast: https://eu.dispatch.com/story/news/...g-patients-going-indiana-abortion/7788415001/

I agree that child abuse is a bigger issue than the RvW issue. If we could solve that issue, I'd be very happy. Those who believe that a baby's life has no value are probably among the perpetrators contributing to the horrible situation you are reading about. Of course, the usual suspects oust themselves. They mistake access to the internet as being apart of a society.

smf · Jul 2, 2022

tabzer said:
I'd like to live in a community where abortion isn't celebrated.
...
Replace the abortion with murder. Is the idea that "it's going to happen anyway, so let's facilitate it" actually a rational argument to you?

Nobody is celebrating abortion.

Replace abortion with cutting your hair or nails. You are removing some unwanted human cells from your body.

tabzer · Jul 2, 2022

smf said:
Nobody is celebrating abortion.

Replace abortion with cutting your hair or nails. You are removing some unwanted human cells from your body.

Hey guy. I already know that you are a POS. Instead of trying harder to convince me of something I already know, why don't you address this?

Xzi · Jul 2, 2022

tabzer said:
They mistake access to the internet as being apart of a society.

The irony. Guess you're not a part of Japanese society because abortion is legal there up to almost the end of the second trimester.

tabzer · Jul 2, 2022

Xzi said:
The irony. Guess you're not a part of Japanese society because abortion is legal there up to almost the end of the second trimester.

I'm apart of Japanese society, regardless of the legal status of abortion. I was addressing the sentiment expressed about the lack of value in pregnancy.

Japanese people do not believe that pregnancy offers nothing of value to a society, by large. Socially, we celebrate pregnancy and provide social support for it. We aren't the only country that does this.

smf · Jul 2, 2022

tabzer said:
Hey guy. I already know that you are a POS. Instead of trying harder to convince me of something I already know, why don't you address this?

I have better things to do than addressing the delusional ramblings of an internet troll.

As you have regularly proved yourself to be one of the scummiest people on this forum, your opinion of me is as worthless as you are.

tabzer said:
Japanese people do not believe that pregnancy offers nothing of value to a society, by large. Socially, we celebrate pregnancy and provide social support for it. We aren't the only country that does this.

Like all of your posts, this misses the point entirely.

People who are pregnant, who want to be pregnant, celebrate it. There is very little social support in the US, maybe if the US became socialist then it might improve.

I'm not aware of any society that celebrates pregnancy in every circumstance. People who are pro choice don't believe that pregnancy offers nothing, I think you know that but like to pretend that you are moral and anyone who disagrees with you is immoral and make shit up to "prove" that.

Xzi · Jul 2, 2022

tabzer said:
Japanese people do not believe that pregnancy offers nothing of value to a society, by large. Socially, we celebrate pregnancy and provide social support for it. We aren't the only country that does this.

Yes, and a major pillar of that social support is access to abortion services for those that need them. Conservatives have this insane idea that women get abortions for funzies in-between shopping at malls, when the reality is it's always been a last resort. That doesn't mean it's ever gonna be super uncommon, as capitalism has a funny way of leaving a lot of people with only bad options.

seany1990 · Jul 2, 2022

https://eu.dispatch.com/story/news/...g-patients-going-indiana-abortion/7788415001/

https://preview.redd.it/pofoph0yq3991.jpg?width=799&auto=webp&s=b9125c235a825364eb529380e3b2aac100a6b3ba

smf · Jul 2, 2022

seany1990 said:
https://eu.dispatch.com/story/news/...g-patients-going-indiana-abortion/7788415001/

tabzer is celebrating the pregnancy of that 10 year old right now.

tabzer · Jul 2, 2022

smf said:
tabzer is celebrating the pregnancy of that 10 year old right now.

Am I correct in assuming that because you cannot physically rape people, that you settle to rape the conversation? I already stated my position on that. What follows is what I already posted.

Dark_Ansem said:
Well that was fast: https://eu.dispatch.com/story/news/...g-patients-going-indiana-abortion/7788415001/

I agree that child abuse is a bigger issue than the RvW issue. If we could solve that issue, I'd be very happy. Those who believe that a baby's life has no value are probably among the perpetrators contributing to the horrible situation you are reading about. Of course, the usual suspects oust themselves. They mistake access to the internet as being apart of a society.

Roe V Wade has been repealed

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