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Roe V Wade has been repealed

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Lacius

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What's irrelevant it the views of every single person on this forum and everyone that doesn't make the state laws.

The law is the only thing that's relevant and the law has spoken.
I'm sure you feel this way, since it would mean you wouldn't have to address my points (a task I'm sure you find to be difficult), but if this is how we acted, then nobody would have a conversation about anything.

Also, a lot of the people in this thread are voters, so their views are relevant, and their opinions are valid regardless of whether or not they're voters.

Your comment feels a lot like you're waving a white flag and saying "move along, nothing to see here."

Many women will be screeching for a few days, but when it comes down to it they will abide by the laws of the state or they will need to go somewhere else to get their abortions. That's the only thing that's relevant.
There are many more elections, executive actions, administrative actions, and court cases in the future. This isn't over.

You're also a fool if you think abortions won't take place in states where they're illegal.
 

mrdude

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You're also a fool if you think abortions won't take place in states where they're illegal.
Yes I am sure there will be loads of alchohol and coathangers used in back street rooms. I suppose for some it will just be a hobby kind of like fishing for one of these.

Nx3LVnD.jpg


As for your comment about more elections etc, This is the law now so in the meantime suck it up until the laws get changed again.
 
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Lacius

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Yes I am sure there will be loads of alchohol and coathangers used in back street rooms.
This is unfortunately true, but the good news is medicated abortions are safe and easy, and you have to be a fool to believe the pills will be impossible to access in states where abortion is illegal.

As for your comment about more elections etc, This is the law now so in the meantime suck it up until the laws get changed again.
I don't respond to injustice by "sucking it up." That isn't an avenue to change.
 
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mrdude

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This is unfortunately true, but the good news is medicated abortions are safe and easy, and you have to be a fool to believe the pills will be impossible to access in states where abortion is illegal.
Yep, probably it would just be easier in the first place to use contraception or take the morning after pill. Then they won't need to bother taking an abortion pill. Finally they will be forced to act responsibly, whether they want to learn the hard way or the easy way is up to them.
 

Lacius

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Yep, probably it would just be easier in the first place to use contraception or take the morning after pill. Then they won't need to bother taking an abortion pill. Finally they will be forced to act responsibly, whether they want to learn the hard way or the easy way is up to them.
  1. Yeah, contraception probably would be easier, and I highly recommend the use of contraception.
  2. Many of the same right-wingers who are anti-choice are also anti-contraception (go figure). They've done a lot to limit access to contraception and limit education about contraception in schools.
  3. Right-wingers are working on making multiple forms of contraception outright illegal.
  4. Contraception is not 100% effective, and a person using it may still need access to abortion services.
  5. Having sex without contraception does not somehow take away a person's right to bodily autonomy. Sex, with or without contraception, is not consent to get pregnant, and consent to get pregnant isn't even consent to stay pregnant.
  6. Some people get pregnant from sex, with or without contraception, when the sex wasn't consensual. But yeah, forcing her to remain pregnant: that'll teach her.
 

Dark_Ansem

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You don’t actually know that without a control. Sweden didn’t have a formal lockdown and their COVID-19-related deaths aren’t excessive compared to the rest of Europe. Everything depends on the country in question, its climate, population density and socio-economic environment. There is no parallel “Earth 2” with no lockdown you can use for comparison, you can only make projections with no real way to determine if they’re accurate with 100% certainty.
Their fully state-sponsored healthcare is excellent however. Unlike your preferred libertarian Far West of insurances.
 

Foxi4

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Their fully state-sponsored healthcare is excellent however. Unlike your preferred libertarian Far West of insurances.
I should make a scarecrow and start an account for it so that you could have arguments with it instead of me. I am on record saying that I despise the insurance industry, you’re strawmanning hard.
 

Dark_Ansem

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I should make a scarecrow and start an account for it so that you could have arguments against it instead of me. I am on record saying that I despise the insurance industry, you’re strawmanning hard.
Eh but you're also on record spending pages arguing with me about how wasteful public healthcare is and how much better your libertarian ideas were, or did you forget? I'm happy to accept you might have changed your mind and only tend to argue for the sake of arguing, like a troll.
 

Foxi4

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Eh but you're also on record spending pages arguing with me about how wasteful public healthcare is and how much better your libertarian ideas were, or did you forget? I'm happy to accept you might have changed your mind and only tend to argue for the sake of arguing, like a troll.
Oh, it’s definitely wasteful and a private implementation would be far more efficient, but that’s not what you said.
 

Dark_Ansem

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Oh, it’s definitely wasteful and a private implementation would be far more efficient, but that’s not what you said.
I know what I said, and with evidence I highlighted how only public healthcare is the one that works, overall, best. Let's try to make a bit of clarity, shall we? Because you don't like public, you don't like private via insurance, what is it that you like? Fully private without insurance?
 

Foxi4

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I know what I said, and with evidence I highlighted how only public healthcare is the one that works, overall, best. Let's try to make a bit of clarity, shall we? Because you don't like public, you don't like private via insurance, what is it that you like? Fully private without insurance?
Private healthcare and private insurance are two separate industries. They were foolishly intertwined by government mandate, removing them from the free market and eliminating supply and demand from the equation, completely destabilising pricing as a result. We had an extensive argument about this in the past and, evidently, you’ve gathered nothing from it. Since I have no reason to believe that this time you will, I see no reason to waste my time with you in a completely unrelated thread. If you want to know what the libertarian stance on healthcare is, you can research that subject on your own time.
 
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Dark_Ansem

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Private healthcare and private insurance are two separate industries. They were foolishly intertwined by government mandate, removing them from the free market.
So, you're arguing that something isn't how it should be - which is fine, except that IRL this is the situation we're in. You can lament the erroneous mandate, but we also have to deal with reality.
We had an extensive argument about this in the past and, evidently, you’ve gathered nothing from it.
It's not my fault you're incapable of expressing a thought that isn't filled to the brim with your misplaced condescending attitude and overall ignorance, trying to say everything and the opposite of everything just to appear never flat-footed, while always engaging in your usual gaslighting.
Since I have no reason to believe that this time you will, I see no reason to waste my time with you in a completely unrelated topic.
It's not unrelated, and your time is worthless anyway since you have no useful contribution to make. The costs of a childbirth in the US, can be exceedingly high. Even "skin to skin" contact is charged. Now, in a public healthcare system, this is taken care of by the state. If you're insured, hopefully the insurance takes care of it. If you're not, you're paying this out of pocket. How much should childbirth cost in your ideal healthcare system?
If you want to know what the libertarian stance on healthcare is, you can research that subject on your own time.
No thanks, I'd rather to something productive like watching rainfall. Definitely a better occupation than engaging with a trollish reactionary troglodyte such as yourself. Or reading about an obviously failed ideology which cannot function in the real world - even less so on the proposed scale.
 
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Foxi4

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So, you're arguing that something isn't how it should be - which is fine, except that IRL this is the situation we're in. You can lament the erroneous mandate, but we also have to deal with reality.

It's not my fault you're incapable of expressing a thought that isn't filled to the brim with your misplaced condescending attitude and overall ignorance, trying to say everything and the opposite of everything just to appear never flat-footed, while always engaging in your usual gaslighting.

It's not unrelated, and your time is worthless anyway since you have no useful contribution to make. The costs of a childbirth in the US, can be exceedingly high. Even "skin to skin" contact is charged. Now, in a public healthcare system, this is taken care of by the state. If you're insured, hopefully the insurance takes care of it. If you're not, you're paying this out of pocket. How much should childbirth cost in your ideal healthcare system?

No thanks, I'd rather to something productive like watching rainfall. Definitely a better occupation than engaging with a trollish reactionary troglodyte such as yourself. Or reading about an obviously failed ideology which cannot function in the real world - even less so on the proposed scale.
>“I don’t want to learn anything new, I’ll just build strawmen and attack others based on what I think they believe, as opposed to what they actually believe.”

See? Saved me a bunch of typing and the result is exactly the same. That’s efficiency.
 
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Foxi4

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lmao private health care is always gonna be a scam, there is no effective or ethical way to implement one
The Swiss are complaining about their exclusively private healthcare non-stop while they enjoy ranking 1st in the World Index of Healthcare Innovation, 1st in the Euro Health Consumer Index and 3rd in the Legatum Prosperity Index. There’s just no way to do it right. Beating a dead horse though, I don’t know how many times I’ve had this discussion on the forum - boring.
 

Dark_Ansem

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The Swiss are complaining about their exclusively private healthcare non-stop
Actually it's called: universal private health insurance. Also, Legatum index? Don't make me laugh, those people are useless, they don't have enough brain to find their own arse without their hands. And Euro Health consumer index stopped what, 4 years ago?
And the Freopp? Claims to be non-partisan yet staffed almost exclusively by Texan republicans, some of the most rabid reactionary fash folk around.

So it's really nice to throw stats, but maybe they'd be a little less biased, yes?
 
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