Roe V Wade has been repealed

MariArch · Jun 25, 2022

osaka35 said:
Incredibly disappointing. The majority opinion stated they're going after other rights next. specifically, trying to get rid of lgbtq+ individuals' proper human rights, and get rid of the right to contraceptives. Expect also the right to privacy to be attacked. The descent of the US into religious tyranny continues unabated.

Literally the opposite of tyranny but ok

Xzi · Jun 25, 2022

NoobletCheese said:
It's only fascism if the moral status of the fetus is trivial.

If the fetus has a soul, then we would both agree it would be wrong to kill it. In that case it would be an empirical dispute about whether the fetus has a soul, which is not a moral dispute, and so we don't have to be at eachother's throats.

Frankly it's not even worth consideration when separation of church and state is still supposed to be a thing. Your religious beliefs do not get to dictate how an atheist chooses to live their life, and vice versa.

Elodain · Jun 25, 2022

osaka35 said:
Expect also the right to privacy to be attacked.

We already don't have a true right to privacy. The government spies on all all the time. To take away our "right" is to simply admit they want to spy on us, which doesn't mean much anymore because we know they do and have CAUGHT them doing it.

osaka35 · Jun 25, 2022

MariArch said:
Literally the opposite of tyranny but ok

then you should probably google how tyranny works and its implication. using religious dogma in opposition to logic and human rights as basis for determining the law for the entire country is pretty dang tyrannical in my book.

Elodain said:
We already don't have a true right to privacy. The government spies on all all the time. To take away our "right" is to simply admit they want to spy on us, which doesn't mean much anymore because we know they do and have CAUGHT them doing it.

Yes, can't argue there. but ostensibly we should have that right. Those rights have been eroded, and they plan to erode it even more. Going in the wrong direction, full-steam ahead.

DbGt · Jun 25, 2022

Right to life > everything else

NoobletCheese · Jun 25, 2022

osaka35 said:
Incredibly disappointing. The majority opinion stated they're going after other rights next. specifically, trying to get rid of lgbtq+ individuals' proper human rights, and get rid of the right to contraceptives. Expect also the right to privacy to be attacked. The descent of the US into religious tyranny continues unabated.

If by "going after" you mean "letting states decide".

The constitution doesn't say anything about gay marriage and LGBT stuff, and the whole identity of the US is that you have all these different states to choose from if you don't like the laws in one you have the awesome option of going to another one instead of having some stupid fascist in charge dictating for the whole country. That's what makes US great, you have lots of options.

And for the record I of course voted yes for marriage equality because I saw no reason why the gov't should interfere if two people want to sign a contract between eachother and they failed to prove that doing so was a threat or harm to anyone else, just like they failed to prove me having a gun poses a threat to anyone.

MariArch · Jun 25, 2022

osaka35 said:
then you should probably google how tyranny works and its implication. using religious dogma in opposition to logic and human rights as basis for determining the law for the entire country is pretty dang tyrannical in my book.

Did they do that? no. If they were going off of religious dogma, the supreme court would've declared that life starts at conception and so we have to ban plan b and abortions nationwide. But they didn't do that. They simply said if it aint in the constitution, it aint a right. And so states can make laws on it. noone can deny that.

osaka35 · Jun 25, 2022

NoobletCheese said:
If by "going after" you mean "letting states decide".

The constitution doesn't say anything about gay marriage and LGBT stuff, and the whole identity of the US is that you have all these different states to choose from if you don't like the laws in one you have the awesome option of going to another one instead of having some stupid fascist in charge dictating for the whole country. That's what makes US great, you have lots of options.

And for the record I of course voted yes for marriage equality because I saw no reason why the gov't should interfere if two people want to sign a contract between eachother and they failed to prove that doing so was a threat or harm to anyone else, just like they failed to prove me having a gun poses a threat to anyone.

They're aware of the current state laws. They can't claim ignorance, they are very much aware of the effect their ruling will have. The majority opinion illustrates their desired outcome, it's not just a matter of "we wish this wasn't the case, but our hands are tied", but more of "we want it to be illegal and the best way to accomplish this is to let the states decide"

The constitution doesn't say much of anything about anything. And that is definitely NOT the whole identity of the US. Human rights aren't "options". They are non-negotiable in an ethical state.

MariArch said:
Did they do that? no. If they were going off of religious dogma, the supreme court would've declared that life starts at conception and so we have to ban plan b and abortions nationwide. But they didn't do that. They simply said if it aint in the constitution, it aint a right. And so states can make laws on it. noone can deny that.

you're splitting hairs. And yes, most people deny that.

NoobletCheese · Jun 25, 2022

Xzi said:
Frankly it's not even worth consideration when separation of church and state is still supposed to be a thing. Your religious beliefs do not get to dictate how an atheist chooses to live their life, and vice versa.

I'm not religious and I didn't say you have to believe anything about souls. It was just to show the difference between empirical dispute and moral dispute. You could swap "soul" for anything else like "mind" or "thing which gives humans moral value". Also watch the video might change your whole perspective on shit & Yale is politically on your side

MariArch · Jun 25, 2022

osaka35 said:
Yes, can't argue there. but ostensibly we should have that right. Those rights have been eroded, and they plan to erode it even more. Going in the wrong direction, full-steam ahead.

I'd sign onto an amendment that protects a Citizens right to privacy, if in addition it also protects a fetuses right to live

Deleted member 571007 · Jun 25, 2022

NoobletCheese said:
If by "going after" you mean "letting states decide".

The constitution doesn't say anything about gay marriage and LGBT stuff, and the whole identity of the US is that you have all these different states to choose from if you don't like the laws in one you have the awesome option of going to another one instead of having some stupid fascist in charge dictating for the whole country. That's what makes US great, you have lots of options.

And for the record I of course voted yes for marriage equality because I saw no reason why the gov't should interfere if two people want to sign a contract between eachother and they failed to prove that doing so was a threat or harm to anyone else, just like they failed to prove me having a gun poses a threat to anyone.

You may be right in some aspects of this, while many people do have the option to just "move to a different state" a lot of others are unable to do this because of financial instability, not to mention most people would have to quit their jobs to be able to do this - and speaking from family experience when you take that choice it isn't always easy to recover from.

So yes it's great to have options and I'm not trying to contradict or prove you wrong in any way as you are technically right; but the point still stands that many people will be forced to stay stagnant in their place of residence unless they take extreme options such as taking out a massive loan, as sometimes even selling your house isn't nearly enough. But then again, situations are always extremely diverse which is why as I've said the one size fits all attitude doesn't always work, as some people may be able to do what you suggested perfectly fine - others may not.

NoobletCheese · Jun 25, 2022

osaka35 said:
They're aware of the current state laws. They can't claim ignorance, they are very much aware of the effect their ruling will have. The majority opinion illustrates their desired outcome, it's not just a matter of "we wish this wasn't the case, but our hands are tied", but more of "we want it to be illegal and the best way to accomplish this is to let the states decide"

So by the same logic would you abandon democracy if you knew the people were going to vote the wrong way?

MariArch · Jun 25, 2022

Korozin said:
You may be right in some aspects of this, while many people do have the option to just "move to a different state" a lot of others are unable to do this because of financial instability, not to mention most people would have to quit their jobs to be able to do this - and speaking from family experience when you take that choice it isn't always easy to recover from.

So yes it's great to have options and I'm not trying to contradict or prove you wrong in any way as you are technically right; but the point still stands that many people will be forced to stay stagnant in their place of residence unless they take extreme options such as taking out a massive loan, as sometimes even selling your house isn't nearly enough. But then again, situations are always extremely diverse which is why as I've said the one size fits all attitude doesn't always work, as some people may be able to do what you suggested perfectly fine - others may not.

You say this as if the citizenry is stupid and doesn't know how to function.

if you don't have the money for a condom, you shouldn't be having sex
if you don't have the money for an iud, you shouldn't be having sex
if you can't afford a plan b, you shouldn't be having sex
if you don't have the money to travel to an abortion mill state, you shouldn't be having sex
if you can't afford a kid, you shouldn't be having sex.

NoobletCheese · Jun 25, 2022

Korozin said:
You may be right in some aspects of this, while many people do have the option to just "move to a different state" a lot of others are unable to do this because of financial instability, not to mention most people would have to quit their jobs to be able to do this - and speaking from family experience when you take that choice it isn't always easy to recover from.

So yes it's great to have options and I'm not trying to contradict or prove you wrong in any way as you are technically right; but the point still stands that many people will be forced to stay stagnant in their place of residence unless they take extreme options such as taking out a massive loan, as sometimes even selling your house isn't nearly enough. But then again, situations are always extremely diverse which is why as I've said the one size fits all attitude doesn't always work, as some people may be able to do what you suggested perfectly fine - others may not.

Fair points and I'd add just having the option to leave can sometimes be immensely psychologically beneficial. I can't afford to leave my state either, and I couldn't because I'm vaccine free, but it's still incredibly important that I have the option to leave. People who want euthanasia often don't even end up using it they just find it incredibly important to have the option. Just something to consider, not really a refutal of your point.

Xzi · Jun 25, 2022

NoobletCheese said:
I'm not religious and I didn't say you have to believe anything about souls. It was just to show the difference between empirical dispute and moral dispute. You could swap "soul" for anything else like "mind" or "thing which gives humans moral value". Also watch the video might change your whole perspective on shit & Yale is politically on your side

There's nothing that can change my perspective on this, because I know the truth of the matter. Banning abortion is entirely financially motivated, the elites are trying to create an artificial baby boom to feed more warm bodies to wage slavery and the military-industrial complex. Only desperate workers are willing to accept the suppressed wages that keeps capitalism's unlimited growth model afloat, and workers aren't desperate enough for them following the pandemic. That's despite the fact that their profiteering on essential goods is also out of control at the moment, which makes $15/hr feel more like $7.50/hr used to.

osaka35 · Jun 25, 2022

NoobletCheese said:
So by the same logic would you abandon democracy if you knew the people were going to vote the wrong way?

You're suggesting i'm saying the process is no good if the results are no good? Not quite. I'm suggesting they are not even hiding their corrupt intent, merely using their poor interpretation of the process to justify it. I'm suggesting they are both at fault in their intent and in how they are justifying it.

Elodain · Jun 25, 2022

MariArch said:
You say this as if the citizenry is stupid and doesn't know how to function.

if you don't have the money for a condom, you shouldn't be having sex
if you don't have the money for an iud, you shouldn't be having sex
if you can't afford a plan b, you shouldn't be having sex
if you don't have the money to travel to an abortion mill state, you shouldn't be having sex
if you can't afford a kid, you shouldn't be having sex.

In my state Birth control was covered by government health care (Medicaid). I don't know if it is any more, but It was at one point. There were also places that would give it to girls that were the Age of Consent or older without parent permission.

MariArch · Jun 25, 2022

Xzi said:
There's nothing that can change my perspective on this, because I know the truth of the matter. Banning abortion is entirely financially motivated, the elites are trying to create an artificial baby boom to feed more warm bodies to wage slavery and the military-industrial complex. Only desperate workers are willing to accept the suppressed wages that keeps capitalism's unlimited growth model afloat, and workers aren't desperate enough for them following the pandemic. That's despite the fact that their profiteering on essential goods is also out of control at the moment, which makes $15/hr feel more like $7.50/hr used to.

Sir. Take your pills.

Many many companies, including Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan are literally about to fund their idiot workers expenses to travel to an abortion mill state.

Deleted member 571007 · Jun 25, 2022

MariArch said:
You say this as if the citizenry is stupid and doesn't know how to function.

if you don't have the money for a condom, you shouldn't be having sex
if you don't have the money for an iud, you shouldn't be having sex
if you can't afford a plan b, you shouldn't be having sex
if you don't have the money to travel to an abortion mill state, you shouldn't be having sex
if you can't afford a kid, you shouldn't be having sex.

Wasn't referring to it entirely in an abortion sense, just saying in general that degree of travel can be expensive regardless of someone's mental fortitude. Like I said I wasn't trying to prove anyone wrong - just stating a point that is valid. Also while it may seem like common sense to abide by what you listed, many people don't think that far ahead; that's just a fact at this point. The vast majority of people might show some common sense and avoid an unfavorable situation, but many people just see an opportunity to have sex and don't even think about what it entails or brings after the fact. But back to what I was actually saying, this applies to general moving scenarios as well, not just ones where people cross state lines to get abortion access.

MariArch · Jun 25, 2022

Korozin said:
Wasn't referring to it entirely in an abortion sense, just saying in general that degree of travel can be expensive regardless of someone's mental fortitude. Like I said I wasn't trying to prove anyone wrong - just stating a point that is valid. Also while it may seem like common sense to abide by what you listed, many people don't think that far ahead; that's just a fact at this point. The vast majority of people might show some common sense and avoid an unfavorable situation, but many people just see an opportunity to have sex and don't even think about what it entails or brings after the fact. But back to what I was actually saying, this applies to general moving scenarios as well, not just ones where people cross state lines to get abortion access.

Alright, but even still. Even somehow didn't exhaust all their options, They can still put the kid up for adoption. And before anyone says it: no. Being dead is not better than being in the foster care system. That's called eugenics.

Roe V Wade has been repealed

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