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U.S. Supreme Court set to overturn Roe v. Wade abortion rights decision

Dark_Ansem

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Gale is wrong. Zemeckis is wrong. Spielberg is wrong.
I literally never said or implied anything of the sort. Please stop lying and putting in the (metaphorical) mouth of others words they didn't say.
Can we get back to Roe v. Wade now?
That's what we are here for. Frankly, considering your past behaviour and post history...
I’m not going to take part in your mental breakdown.
You seem very flustered, almost as if you were nailed to the wall or some other suggestive expression. Are you feeling all right? Do you need some water? Unlike you, I actually have a perfectly valid reason to be irritable and I'm being as civil as I can be with someone constantly in bad faith as you are.
 

smf

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The cat example is just a thought experiment on superposition.
It's a thought experiment that was trolling quantum physicists.

He isn't suggesting that it would be real, he's saying how ridiculous it is. But he kinda missed the point as the wave would collapse, because the cat was in the box.

he exists, but he technically shouldn’t as he interrupted his own parent’s meeting which is a prerequisite for his existence. Not only that, he is physically in the past, but he is to be born in the future. He’s in a superposition state not just in space, but also time.
No, he either exists or doesn't. He is only in one position in time and space.

If he never existed at all then he can't be aborted, if he does exist then he wasn't aborted.
 

Foxi4

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It's a thought experiment that was trolling quantum physicists.

He isn't suggesting that it would be real, he's saying how ridiculous it is. But he kinda missed the point as the wave would collapse, because the cat was in the box.
Boy howdy, the last thing we need on PolTemp is a discussion about quantum physics - we might actually see some brains frying in real time. :lol: Just out of my own personal curiosity, do you happen to have any articles suggesting that he was, as you say, trolling? I was always under the impression that the thought experiment was an attempt at describing the counterintuitive nature of superposition, in response to Einstein’s example of an exploded/unexploded powder keg and his EPR article. The two exchanged correspondence on the subject. It was a critique of the Copenhagen model. You are right in the sense that he certainly wasn’t saying cats can be simultaneously dead and alive, to him that notion was absurd. He was instead illustrating that our understanding of quantum physics was incomplete, but I don’t know if that qualifies as trolling. Is my understanding correct, or am I missing something?
 

smf

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but I don’t know if that qualifies as trolling.
Saying something you don't believe to make someone look stupid is not trolling?

The Copenhagen interpretation that he was trolling, was never published & we don't know what exactly was in it that he disagreed with (because rather than disagreeing with it, he mocked it). So we don't know whether it was valid.

However Heisenberg has stated that an observer doesn't need to be human, which I kind of think escaped Schrodinger as opening the box will do nothing.
 
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Foxi4

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No, he either exists or doesn't. He is only in one position in time and space.

If he never existed at all then he can't be aborted, if he does exist then he wasn't aborted.
Not sure how to describe the premise in a way that would adequately explain it. The film rejects the notion of Many Worlds, there can be only one outcome, the timestream doesn’t split - it merely mends itself (within reason - Doc does warn Marty about excessive interference). As you say, Marty can only exist in one place in space and time. However, he is in a superposition state specifically because of his interference, and he can either completely vanish or continue to exist depending on what actions he undertakes. In that sense, he is, but simultaneously isn’t - his state is uncertain until he guarantees his own existence.

We’re observers looking at this situation from outside of the universe of the movie. Marty’s timestream will correct itself to avoid paradox, but that won’t affect our memory of Marty because we don’t inhabit his universe. To us, he’ll suddenly vanish because he’ll accidentally prevent his birth. As far as we’re concerned, he’ll be an entity that existed and suddenly ceased to exist. “Getting aborted from time” is as good of a description as any to the viewers, but I can understand how you’d find that objectionable since from the perspective of other inhabitant of Marty’s universe he’d simply never exist at all.

Never thought making a joke would take us to a discussion about quantum physics, but I always like when threads go in unexpected and interesting directions (within reason). I’m happy to agree to disagree on the applicability of the term - it’s not exactly a serious discussion anyway, we’re talking about a film. I am happy to see that so many people like it though, it’s a classic.

EDIT: tl;dr Marty can only exist if his parents get together. He screws up at the very beginning and starts the process of vanishing. He messed up “a little bit”, but not “quite enough” to fully disappear. As such, he doesn’t “exist” or “doesn’t exist”, he “maybe exists” until his fate is sealed. That’s an in-between state contingent on whether he reverts his screw-up or not.
Saying something you don't believe to make someone look stupid is not trolling?
I don’t think so, no. If you want to show that something is absurd, coming up with an example that demonstrates this absurdity is a good way of going about it. How else would you do it? We’ve had our fair share of absurd analogies in this very thread - I think they can be a valuable tool that takes us closer to the truth. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
 
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SG854

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I think Abortion should be legal

Sometimes God likes to impregnate Women even if they never had sex without their consent. Not all Pregnancies is a result of SEX!!!

Many Women financially struggle & not all Women can afford to raise the next Messiah. Therfore they should be allowed to abort their baby.
 
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smf

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As you say, Marty can only exist in one place in space and time. However, he is in a superposition state specifically because of his interference, and he can either completely vanish or continue to exist depending on what actions he undertakes. In that sense, he is, but simultaneously isn’t - his state is uncertain until he guarantees his own existence.

The reason why I don't think it's a quantum super state is the text on the fax that Jennifer had which said "You're Fired" slowly fades away after Marty didn't race. There appears to be some other unexplained process going on.
 
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smf

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I don’t think so, no. If you want to show that something is absurd, coming up with an example that demonstrates this absurdity is a good way of going about it.
No, it's never a good way. If you disagree with something, then you should deal with the specific points. Rather than trying to go round that by pretending that what they say is absurd.

At best it looks like he built a straw man.

I kinda figured that someone with your similar style would think it's ok though, despite a ton of evidence to the contrary.
 
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Foxi4

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The reason why I don't think it's a quantum super state is the text on the fax that Jennifer had which said "You're Fired" slowly fades away after Marty didn't race. There appears to be some other unexplained process going on.
Well, we know that Marty gets fired for some kind of financial malfeasance. Needles effectively bullies him into scanning his card. Judging by the disappearance of the fax after the fact, we can surmise that the transaction had something to do with the collision that would’ve occurred if Marty did choose to participate in the car race, as it’s pretty clear that the near miss would’ve been more severe if he did. We don’t have enough information to determine exactly what happened other than the two events being connected in some way.

EDIT: The way I interpret it is that it taught Marty restraint, which affected his decision-making later down the line. Being able to say “no” to the car race taught him how to say “no” to having his card scanned, thus removing the cause of his firing. It’s just a theory though - the matter isn’t fully explained.
No, it's never a good way. If you disagree with something, then you should deal with the specific points. Rather than trying to go round that by pretending that what they say is absurd.

At best it looks like he built a straw man.

I kinda figured that someone with your similar style would think it's ok though, despite a ton of evidence to the contrary.
Like I said, different strokes for different folks. I like examples. If I see something that’s absurd, all it takes is an example to demonstrate why. Ideally you’d like to discuss that example after the fact so that the problem can be further explored, but that doesn’t always happen. In the realm of the laws of physics, finding an exception to a proposed law is a pretty big deal - it signifies that a variable is being omitted somewhere along the train of thought.
 
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Foxi4

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You know what @smf and @Dark_Ansem? I’m enjoying the BTTF conversation more than I probably should, all the abortion talk aside. If you want to talk about the movies some more, along with their associated paradoxes, I’d be more than happy to continue it in a dedicated thread where we can talk strictly about the movies. If you guys want, I can make a new thread and move all of the content we’ve discussed so far to it, so that we can carry on without distracting from the abortion debate. If y’all interested in Marty’s adventures, we have a dedicated board for movies. It’ll let us all simmer down too, which is an added benefit.
 

Dark_Ansem

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You know what @smf and @Dark_Ansem? I’m enjoying the BTTF conversation more than I probably should, all the abortion talk aside. If you want to talk about the movies some more, along with their associated paradoxes, I’d be more than happy to continue it in a dedicated thread where we can talk strictly about the movies. If you guys want, I can make a new thread and move all of the content we’ve discussed so far to it, so that we can carry on without distracting from the abortion debate. If y’all interested in Marty’s adventures, we have a dedicated board for movies. It’ll let us all simmer down too, which is an added benefit.
A satisfactory idea. Let's make a BTTF thread.
 

Foxi4

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thread is about abortion

discussion is about back to the future.

we live in a society where it has veered off topic.
Correct. With that being said, the discussion is admittedly rather entertaining, so the remedy shouldn’t cause loss of content. The ideal solution is to move it to a more appropriate venue if the participants are willing to continue.
 

tabzer

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I was talking about pedestrians. They do not consent to being knocked over, even if they get distracted when crossing the road.

There are various signs that demonstrate a consent to being pregnant, not having an abortion if they get pregnant would be a clear sign. Having an abortion is a clear sign they didn't consent.

What you seem to want to do, is force consent onto someone.

Getting an abortion is not the same as not having gotten pregnant. Having an abortion is a form of withdrawing consent, not proof or evidence that consent wasn't given in the first place. Participating in actions where the outcome is a reasonable expectation carries a degree of implicit consent. Participating in actions where the outcome is definitely expected is intent. Where am I trying to force consent? I'm trying to identify it.

I'm not sure what pedestrians crossing the road symbolize for you in the analogy that driving cars is operating one's sexual drive. I've already likened someone who isn't driving, and getting hit by a car, as a form of rape.
 
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Deleted member 586536

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it´s his opinion i differ from him but it´s just that an opinion
And? people act on those opinions. It's how they act about them that matters. I'll make the clear difference again with marijuana as an example. I personally heavily dislike marijuana for clarity here.
1. "I dislike marijuana, but I'm okay with others people choice to have it" (this is me. I can rationally understand why people choose to do it. I don't exactly agree with it, and if I think that they harming of themselves because of that. I'll state it, but I will not enforce my belief on someone else. It's not causing me or anyone else harm. nor is it addictive in the same way as other substances)
2. "I dislike marijuana, and I want it banned"
One is tolerant of the other. One is not. marijuana isn't hurting anyone else.
Reminder that there used to be (and still is) the opinion that all jews are horrible monsters that should be killed.
If you just put it under the veil of "well it's just an opinion" I'm sorry to say but people act on those opinions, and it can be in the determent of others.
 
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Dark_Ansem

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Let's just say that some states like Texas really protect their childrens...
While they're in their mom...
Once they are out, ciao bye, you're on your own kid
If this were REALLY about children, the state would ensure they have access to the things required to LIVE their life: healthcare, education, meals, playtime. None of this happens.
 

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