U.S. Supreme Court set to overturn Roe v. Wade abortion rights decision

smf · May 24, 2022

Foxi4 said:
Ah, I see the problem. You don’t quite grasp the idea of describing an argument for or against something without actually stating your personal opinion on the subject.

I'm not interested in hypothetically debating an issue with someone so disingenuous, no.

Because from past experience, you'll just use it to launch an attack on me.

If you want to debate, you have to give me your opinion. I tried explaining that multiple times, so I'm glad you finally got it.

smf · May 24, 2022

JonhathonBaxster said:
No I don't. I couldn't fathom being raped or how that would make me feel.

Don't you think that before you make a decision for a rape victim, that they deserve that you tried to think that?

All kinds of prejudice, whether it's racism, sexism, etc. Is fundamentally a lack of empathy for that person.

So try to have some empathy, otherwise it appears as if you are prejudiced.

Dr_Faustus · May 24, 2022

KennyAtom said:
of course i don't think they can get abortions without sex, i'm not a incel retard who spends all his time browsing reddit.

i meant i don't want it used as a form of birth control.

Alright chiming in here again despite it being a waste of time to change any perspective on the people here in on this subject but the idea of Abortion being used as a form of "birth control" is about as extreme as amputating an arm because you broke a finger. Most women who go through this choice are not doing so happily and without any kind of personal struggle on their own means. Its done as literally a form of last resort and if there is no feasible way to carry and bring forth into the world without it causing a great deal of issues whether it be sustainability, livability, general health, etc.

No woman wants to go through an abortion as if its no big deal to them, of course its a big goddamn deal to them. Even going through the process of it can be traumatizing for women. Regardless if its chemical or physical its still a difficult process to deal with and one that most women would rather not if it can be helped. Its literally the last resort of use case.

Seriously, its not like women are aborting as if they are treating it as you would treat taking a shit every day. Contraceptives exist for a reason and they are meant to prevent the need to even consider having an abortion. Unfortunately a lot of those pro-life advocates are also by design of their belief/religion are also against these practices of safe sex/contraceptives as their belief the only time a man should ever shoot his white stuff out at all is in a woman and if that woman is one that he married to and intends to have a family with right there and then. Its a belief that didn't really stay true 50 years ago, its certainly not going to stay true now.

However my personal insight on that is anyone who is that butthurt enough to care about how so many people are having sex without the intent to make kids are probably just internally sad that they can't get any themselves because of being locked in by their beliefs or because they are social poison.

Simply said those who are getting an abortion are not doing it out of just willy-nilly nature. They have a reason, and its going to be something that regardless of the outcome they will live with for awhile knowing so. Its not something that a person can shake off and act as if it was not a big deal. Anyone who thinks that clearly never had one themselves or never knew anyone who had to go through one. Its not a decision that is ever made lightly.

appleburger · May 24, 2022

JonhathonBaxster said:
I'm just quoting the statistics. I was surprised to learn that most abortions are done out of convenience too.

https://www.hli.org/resources/why-women-abort/
https://www.verywellhealth.com/reasons-for-abortion-906589
https://www.guttmacher.org/journals...ons-quantitative-and-qualitative-perspectives

I don't think abortions should happen for any reason, including the condom breaking or the women being raped.

Posting "sources" like this can get you into a lot of trouble.

First, these are interpretations of more sources - that makes this information a game of telephone right off the bat. You want to get as close to the actual source as possible.

Second, the guttmacher survey article you posted, explicitly attacks the very language you used when trying to use them as your source:

Most women in every age, parity, relationship, racial, income and education category cited concern for or responsibility to other individuals as a factor in their decision to have an abortion. In contrast to the perception (voiced by politicians and laypeople across the ideological spectrum) that women who choose abortion for reasons other than rape, incest and life endangerment do so for "convenience,"13

Now, that doesn't mean you can't source the guttmacher surveys and draw your own conclusions. You may disagree with Guttmacher's assessment here. But when your "source" is drawing a different conclusion than you from the same data, it seriously weakens the entire point of you sourcing someone.

I'd strongly recommend sourcing from reputable sources, and not skimming off the fat with opinion pieces in Google - it's just adding unnecessary information and poisoning the argument, regardless of the topic.

Foxi4 · May 24, 2022

smf said:
I'm not interested in hypothetically debating an issue with someone so disingenuous, no.

Because from past experience, you'll just use it to launch an attack on me.

It’s no skin off my back. I just find it funny that you’re incapable of putting yourself in somebody else’s shoes, despite repeatedly requesting that others do just that. I was interested in what a liberal perspective on shrinking, as opposed to expanding this window might be (in relation to the poll, which seems to indicate that this is the current trend). My hunch is that you know very well why this window could/should be reduced, but you’re unwilling to answer that question because it goes against what you’ve been saying thus far. If it wasn’t damaging to your overall strategy, you’d have no trouble stating what those arguments might be. Not that any of this matters anyway, considering you’re skim-reading anyway. If you weren’t, you’d know what arguments were already discussed in the thread, and would be able to address them.

smf · May 24, 2022

Dr_Faustus said:
However my personal insight on that is anyone who is that butthurt enough to care about how so many people are having sex without the intent to make kids are probably just internally sad that they can't get any themselves because of being locked in by their beliefs or because they are social poison.

It certainly looks that way.

But there are also people that are not empathetic and just parroting the beliefs they have been brainwashed with.

smf · May 24, 2022

Foxi4 said:
My hunch is that you know very well why this window could/should be reduced,

And your true colors are revealed, you see I was right not to trust you.
And also what your views are despite you saying you haven't revealed them.

I'm so clever. If only knowing what a disingenuous troll you are had any kind of financial benefit.

But I was finally vindicated after wearing you down.

KennyAtom · May 24, 2022

Nothereed said:
so in the case of condoms breaking or birth control failing is not something you'd support abortion over?

pretty much.

no birth control is 100% effective, you accept these terms when you start having sex.

smf · May 24, 2022

KennyAtom said:
no birth control is 100% effective, you accept these terms when you start having sex.

When do you think you'll be able to accept those terms?

smf · May 24, 2022

Foxi4 said:
My hunch is that you know very well why this window could/should be reduced, but you’re unwilling to answer that question because it goes against what you’ve been saying thus far. If it wasn’t damaging to your overall strategy, you’d have no trouble stating what those arguments might be. Not that any of this matters anyway, considering you’re skim-reading anyway. If you weren’t, you’d know what arguments were already discussed in the thread, and would be able to address them.

I believe women should have some kind of appropriate choice.

As I've said, I'd consider any arguments that were balanced. I didn't have a hand in setting the current limits, I have no emotional attachment to them & a specific number certainly doesn't form a basis of whatever "strategy" you think I have.

It's impossible to read every post on this thread and have a normal life, plus there is only so much of you, tabzer and jonathan that a reasonable person can take. So yeah, I'm skim reading, what is worrying me is that you are not.

Foxi4 · May 24, 2022

smf said:
And your true colors are revealed, you see I was right not to trust you.
And also what your views are despite you saying you haven't revealed them.

I'm so clever. If only knowing what a disingenuous troll you are had any kind of financial benefit.

But I was finally vindicated after wearing you down.

Wearing me down? I explicitly told you what I’m doing, were you not paying attention? This isn’t a surprise, nor is it disingenuous - I don’t have an ulterior motive, I’m here to dissect bad arguments because I find it amusing. I told you as much myself, and it’s information I volunteered since it’s not exactly a secret. Never thought I’d see this IRL, but I can’t say I’m surprised by your undeserved victory lap.

EDIT: On second thought, “dissect” is probably a better term to describe what I’m doing.

tabzer · May 24, 2022

SexiestManAlive said:
he said, and i quote using the power of context "you sound like you enjoy the thought of that" as in he sounds like he enjoys the thought of women being unable to get an abortion because of rape or the condom breaking, which if he's okay with rape victims being forced to have a baby despite obviously possibly adding more trauma, or someone having to have a child they may be unable to care for, despite not planning and taking the precautions to prevent it, your garbage.

Having a fundamental belief and then clarifying, when asked, about exceptions is not the same as expressing joy that those things happen. If abortion is murder, the cause of the pregnancy wouldn't change that. It shouldn't need pointing out that rape or forced pregnancy are not joyous situations.

smf · May 24, 2022

Foxi4 said:
I’m here to disseminate bad arguments because I find it amusing.

You find it amusing to spread bad arguments?

KennyAtom · May 24, 2022

smf said:
When do you think you'll be able to accept those terms?

Never, considering I'm planning on avoiding sex until I'm ready to get married and start a family.

Foxi4 · May 24, 2022

smf said:
I believe women should have some kind of appropriate choice.

That’s very non-descript, to the point that it means almost nothing. It also doesn’t answer my query - I wasn’t asking about your personal opinion.

smf · May 24, 2022

tabzer said:
Having a fundamental belief and then clarifying, when asked, about exceptions is not the same as expressing joy that those things happen. If abortion is murder, the cause of the pregnancy wouldn't change that. It shouldn't need pointing out that rape or forced pregnancy are not joyous situations.

Having a fundamental believe that ignores the pain and suffering of another group of people, that your decision impacts without any consideration for them, shows a lack of distinct lack of empathy for them.

A lack of empathy for someone is a clear indicator that you will take pleasure in their suffering.

Foxi4 · May 24, 2022

smf said:
You find it amusing to spread bad arguments?

Perhaps “dismantle and examine” would be a better choice of wording, that’s what I mean. I’m not propagating bad arguments, I’m picking and choosing the ones that crop up here and discuss them in order to get to the flaws.

smf · May 24, 2022

Foxi4 said:
That’s very non-descript, to the point that it means almost nothing. It also doesn’t answer my query - I wasn’t asking about your personal opinion.

Maybe to someone with black/white thinking.

How about, I think the pro lifers should fuck off and let the grown ups have some quiet to have some reasoned debate.

smf · May 24, 2022

Foxi4 said:
Perhaps “dismantle and examine” would be a better choice of wording, that’s what I mean. I’m not propagating bad arguments, I’m picking and choosing the ones that crop up here and discuss them in order to get to the flaws.

You said disseminate
verb
spread (something, especially information) widely.

You are arguing in such bad faith that I refuse to have any discussion with you.

If you can't make a point that you actually believe in and just want to troll people with your put downs, then fuck off.

Is it clear enough how little respect you deserve?

Foxi4 · May 24, 2022

smf said:
Maybe to someone with black/white thinking.

How about, I think the pro lifers should fuck off and let the grown ups have some quiet to have some reasoned debate.

It’s not really a debate if you’re planning to exclude one side of it entirely. I think a more appropriate term would be a “wank sesh”, but who am I to judge?

U.S. Supreme Court set to overturn Roe v. Wade abortion rights decision

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