@Foxi4 Isn't the difference between basic healthcare for poor plus mandatory insurance for rest versus national healthcare for all just semantics? I mean in terms of not wanting to pay for other people. Btw, I don't know what percentage of income tax goes towards the NHS and I don't know how much the equivalent level of private insurance would cost.
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Austria first country to make Covid vaccine mandatory
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I'm not sure if the metaphor lines up. It sounds like, in general, you are saying that forcing people to get vaccinated is the consequence of people not "choosing" to get vaccinated. If the end result is force, the idea of a choice wasn't ever real or meaningful.
No. U.
That defeats the purpose of talking about you.
Are you admitting that the purpose of your posts is to shout into the ether and run away without having to engage with people who are critical of your posts? If I had adopted a position as asinine as being anti-vax, I wouldn't want to engage in discourse either.
That’s odd, and I was unaware of this, so good info on your part - you know what they say, you learn something new every day. It appears to be an dedicated payment included in your council tax, which is fair enough. In Wales this is how we pay for garbage collection, so it’s not exactly unprecedented, though I would’ve preferred a meter and a bill. I’ll correct my post to reflect that, thanks! With that being said, the rest of my post still applies.
Last edited by Foxi4,
The alternative would have been to strictly follow the social distancing and mask guidlines, not staright up getting the vaccine (basically doing the homework).
From what I have seen IRL most people didn't care enough.
The thing is, I can understand how more and more people don't want to go along with it anymore since it seems like a never ending story.
In such a crucial time a clear cut or using "force" like you said is a thing you have to do IMO because otherwise it's really going to become a never ending story.
I would argue that it is not, as it creates at least some degree of competition - it’s exactly the same as car insurance. You have multiple providers competing in the realms of price and coverage, and you allow customers to pick and choose what they actually want/need. There is still government coercion considering you are forced to buy it, but considerably less compared to a compulsory tax - more choice is better than less.
Oh I'm not arguing about quality. Purely that (if the cost is equivalent, I don't know) then not wanting to pay for others seems like semantics if you're paying the same for insurance anyway. Perhaps they are not comparable cost-wise, but it was more of a thought exercise. I have no doubt that incentivisation is vastly different on the whole.
My coverage is my own - I either have it or I don’t. I’m not in charge of the financials of the insurance company, it’s the insurance company that manages the funds. I’m under no delusion that this is a singular account from which only I can make claims - that’s not how insurance works. If I wanted to do that, I would just open a rainy day account - if I just want to use my own money, I can do that without a middleman, what I’m paying for is a specific service. The point of insurance is a calculated bet between me and the insurance company, the bet being that whatever I would’ve paid out of pocket, they will pay less for the same procedures. The benefit for me is that regardless of how long I’ve had the plan, it covers me all the same - the benefit for the insurance company is that I give them money for, for the most part, absolutely nothing and they get to manage, invest or otherwise multiply the capital they collect. This is different from a government scheme which has no competition, generally doesn’t invest money and operates on the premise that the coverage it provides now will be paid for by taxing the next generation which doesn’t need much medical attention on account of their age. This kind of program can only exist with a positive population growth - right now population is stagnant and market growth is very slow.
You can observe this interaction in the U.S. as we speak. The young people paying for Social Security now are paying into a fund that is on the brink of bankruptcy and without significant reform it will become insolvent within the foreseeable future - the latest estimate is by 2033. The fund’s insolvency was accelerated by massive expenses caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. The cynical part of me expected COVID-19 to save the Social Security fund as it primarily wipes out the elderly and people with severe pre-existing conditions who not only need the most care, but also are the beneficiaries of Social Security cheques. What I didn’t take into account, or rather didn’t expect, was that the economy might also collapse under current leadership. Higher unemployment equals less Social Security contributions, and with no contributions the engine is running on fumes, so it’s swings and roundabouts until the situation stabilises. Either way, expect massive changes in how American safety nets operate within the next decade, possibly sooner if the trajectory doesn’t change.
My interest in the American system isn't particularly strong, I'm much more concerned with the NHS and it's dire state. Having been an out-patient for almost 40 years, and somewhat ironically trained as a doctor in the middle of that (but never got to practice due to the aforementioned Vioxx incident - why I spend most of my time on here railing against big pharm), I'm always interested in actual, real ways to improve things. I feel like the situation is somewhat similar to the monarchy and is just a matter of waiting it out before a big change can eventually be made.
The government (almost) never shrinks. What I suspect, and what the Tory government has been pushing for for the past couple of years, is what left-wingers call “gutting” the NHS, by which they mean selling it off piecemeal to private healthcare providers and only retain the top branch managing body which will be concerned solely with regulation rather than care. This will create a quasi healthcare market wherein given locations or sectors of care will be operated by different companies, under the watchful eye of what remains of the NHS core. In this model the government doesn’t actually provide any care whatsoever - private industry does, the government simply negotiates and gives directives on how things should be ran. We’re talking about billion pound+ contracts with private service providers here, so it’s not exactly “reversible” at this stage.
https://www.gmb.org.uk/news/privatisation-nhs-contracts-15bn
Here’s a source, from the GMB, so expect it to be negative coverage. Unions don’t like getting pushed away from the government’s teet.
Those figures kind of put things into perspective, although I would still be concerned about the governments ability to correctly oversee things and not be easily influenced by "perks".
Ok, the following video relays a HYPOTHESIS only, but it could be a way that both the virus and vaccine could do DNA damage (not altering in the way you probably meant)..
I have high doubts Covid is going to "vanish" with or without the vaccine, even if efforts are made to force them. I think it's the usual case of bad advertising--overpromised and under delivered.
I hope your strawman loves you as much as you do, it.
Let us know when it's anything other than an anti-vaxxer's fever dream.
The only people in the USA I remember saying COVID-19 would "disappear" were the former president and the Republican Party.
I asked a question about what I considered to be the logical conclusion to your last post, so no, it isn't a strawman by any definition.
As a refresher, I asked you to tag me so I would be more likely to see it and respond to your posts (intentionally not doing so seems cowardly or dodgy to me), and then you said that would "defeat the purpose of your posts." That implies that the purpose of your posts is to avoid criticism from those you're attempting to criticize. That isn't how people who hold tenable positions tend to act.
Let me know if you'd like to get back to talking about the vaccine. I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to talk about literally anything other than your position though.
What makes me curious:
Are you seriously ok with vaccinate all 2 -3 Months ?
Is Mankinds "Intelligence" so low,to not see what happens here ?
The Cycles are getting shorter and shorter...you will need maybe more Shots for every greater "Variants" like Omicron....
That should be healthy ? That should make medical sense ? That should stop the Virus like our Governments has promised in the Past ?
By the Way,our Politics are better to argue against each other (Chancellor Schallenberg and FPÖ) instead of preparing for the next,big and more more threatening Wave in 1-2 Weeks ...
Also said for the last Year:
Why they have not educated our many,many Students for the Covid Intense Stations ? Why not upgraded our Intense Stations instead of telling us daily how many Beds are occupied....many,many,many Beds and Intense Personal where "removed/saved" by Politics a couple of Years ago..
Why not ?
Because nobody want to hear this,only the "broken Record" that tells us every Second "Vaccinate,vaccinate,vaccinate......"
Are you seriously ok with vaccinate all 2 -3 Months ?
Is Mankinds "Intelligence" so low,to not see what happens here ?
The Cycles are getting shorter and shorter...you will need maybe more Shots for every greater "Variants" like Omicron....
That should be healthy ? That should make medical sense ? That should stop the Virus like our Governments has promised in the Past ?
By the Way,our Politics are better to argue against each other (Chancellor Schallenberg and FPÖ) instead of preparing for the next,big and more more threatening Wave in 1-2 Weeks ...
Also said for the last Year:
Why they have not educated our many,many Students for the Covid Intense Stations ? Why not upgraded our Intense Stations instead of telling us daily how many Beds are occupied....many,many,many Beds and Intense Personal where "removed/saved" by Politics a couple of Years ago..
Why not ?
Because nobody want to hear this,only the "broken Record" that tells us every Second "Vaccinate,vaccinate,vaccinate......"
Back to the original topic at hand, I understand that it's bad for the government to make things mandatory and force other people to do things. But in this case with a global pandemic as a whole, I see this more as an emergency measure considering that, as mentioned in articles all around, infection rates are still extremely high along with death counts still continuing to rise up, as well. And we do know that there are lots, and I mean, LOTS, of people that are stubborn in their own ways, blinded by conspiracies and politics, are endangering themselves along with the people around them, especially those that are immunocompromised and medically can't take one.
I understand the whole "My body, my choice" thing, but is that whole thing really worth risking your own life for and potentially screwing over yourself, family, friends, relatives, etc.? Not everyone is made of money and can be able to pay for the best possible treatments in the world. We have had hundreds of thousands of people ruining their own lives and their families' lives just because they don't want to get vaccinated, costing upwards to hundreds of thousands of dollars and people being in debt and asking for others for money to pay for bills and funerals. And even when someone who's unvaccinated survives the ordeal, there is still a good chance of "Long Covid" damages and issues, such as organ damages (lungs, heart, kidneys, etc.), mental instability (depression, anxiety, brain fog, etc.), body pains all over, and so on and so forth. And there's potential causes of death with all those Long Covid damages, too, so some folks aren't completely out of the waters just yet for a "full" recovery.
I understand the whole "My body, my choice" thing, but is that whole thing really worth risking your own life for and potentially screwing over yourself, family, friends, relatives, etc.? Not everyone is made of money and can be able to pay for the best possible treatments in the world. We have had hundreds of thousands of people ruining their own lives and their families' lives just because they don't want to get vaccinated, costing upwards to hundreds of thousands of dollars and people being in debt and asking for others for money to pay for bills and funerals. And even when someone who's unvaccinated survives the ordeal, there is still a good chance of "Long Covid" damages and issues, such as organ damages (lungs, heart, kidneys, etc.), mental instability (depression, anxiety, brain fog, etc.), body pains all over, and so on and so forth. And there's potential causes of death with all those Long Covid damages, too, so some folks aren't completely out of the waters just yet for a "full" recovery.
Last edited by NyaakoXD,
The idea that the vaccine comes with the dangers you suggested is an idea that, at present, exists nowhere other than your ass. Remember that before resorting to calling someone else "simple minded."
Speaking for many unvaccinated Austrians:
It is not that Matter alone (and maybe not the Main Point of View...) of this "My body, my choice"..
It is more the real First Mandatory Vaccination for all People,not only some Groups.
What´s the next Step ?
This and Fear,bad or Misinformation (from the Government and the medical Side..) and lost Trust is still the main Reason for many People here to not get vaccinated.
It was a Red Dwarf quote. I guess you're not much of a sci-fi fan.
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@Purple_Heart, then I will be actually older than him for a bit (ik thats not how ages work btw) -
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