Misc Future of NKit (please stop complaining about the format)

Larsenv · Oct 23, 2021

So there's a lot of people who hate NKit. Some random post from @Jayro I just saw where he called it "bullshit" prompted me to post this.

I'll make it brief, I haven't been posting much on GBAtemp in recent times, so I don't keep up with what people are saying here.

I know Nanook personally, the guy who made NKit, and I agree that it was somewhat of a half-baked format. Especially when Dolphin added RVZ support (by JosJuice).

The idea as you know is to preserve 1:1 data from a game, store it in a decrypted format, and compress it. But the RVZ format accomplishes that and irons out the issues with NKit, plus uses zstd instead of zlib for better compression. It also fixes playability problems for games with Dolphin.

The NKit format will eventually be deprecated in favor of the RVZ format. Nanook has been working on NKit v2 for over a year and a half (started right around the COVID pandemic) and will be centered around the RVZ format, along with a ton of other useful tools and support for other platforms as well.

Once NKit v2 is finally released (which there's still no ETA for), I hope the community will adapt to RVZ. I know I will. The issue for many people is just converting the games to WBFS to play on hardware, but I think NKit will allow direct conversion to it.

Please respect Nanook as he has worked hard on NKit.

TL;DR: Yes, the NKit format has many flaws, but is going to be deprecated in favor of the RVZ format in the long-awaited NKit v2. It'll be easier to convert games to WBFS too.

WG481 · Oct 23, 2021

Personally I didn't mind NKit, especially when I had a 32GB SSD in my laptop (RIP Lappy). I just can't see why people would hate on it. For a game to be compressed to a smaller size is a miracle in my eyes, even if I have to bloat it later to make a .wbfs. The smaller size let me save better backups of my Wii games too. Why y'all hating?

Jayro · Oct 23, 2021

Larsenv said:
So there's a lot of people who hate NKit. Some random post from @Jayro I just saw where he called it "bullshit" prompted me to post this.

I'll make it brief, I haven't been posting much on GBAtemp in recent times, so I don't keep up with what people are saying here.

I know Nanook personally, the guy who made NKit, and I agree that it was somewhat of a half-baked format. Especially when Dolphin added RVZ support (by JosJuice).

The idea as you know is to preserve 1:1 data from a game, store it in a decrypted format, and compress it. But the RVZ format accomplishes that and irons out the issues with NKit, plus uses zstd instead of zlib for better compression. It also fixes playability problems for games with Dolphin.

The NKit format will eventually be deprecated in favor of the RVZ format. Nanook has been working on NKit v2 for over a year and a half (started right around the COVID pandemic) and will be centered around the RVZ format, along with a ton of other useful tools and support for other platforms as well.

Once NKit v2 is finally released (which there's still no ETA for), I hope the community will adapt to RVZ. I know I will. The issue for many people is just converting the games to WBFS to play on hardware, but I think NKit will allow direct conversion to it.

Please respect Nanook as he has worked hard on NKit.

TL;DR: Yes, the NKit format has many flaws, but is going to be deprecated in favor of the RVZ format in the long-awaited NKit v2. It'll be easier to convert games to WBFS too.

I called it bullshit because CFGLoader doesn't use it, and Wii Game Manager won't open the ISOs. I literally cannot use NKIT ISOs in my setups, unless there's been a new tool to convert the ISOs into .wbfs files. But I tried early last year, and was frustrated with it.

Larsenv · Oct 23, 2021

Jayro said:
I called it bullshit because CFGLoader doesn't use it

Sorry, but imagine using CFG USB Loader in 2021. It's not updated like WiiFlow Lite and USB Loader GX are, and it doesn't have as many cool features.

Also, you have to use NKit to convert it to ISO first, and use Wii Backup Manager or Wii Backup Fusion. I don't know anyone else who uses Wii Game Manager.

Jayro · Oct 23, 2021

Larsenv said:
Imagine using CFG USB Loader in 2021, it's not updated like WiiFlow Lite and USB Loader GX are, and it doesn't have as many cool features.

(sorry)

I actually left USBLoader GX FOR CFGLoader many years ago because it gave me way more options and was much more stable. I also can't stand GX's GUI, trying it's hardest to mimick the Wii Menu that it will never be. It's sad, really.

ChiefReginod · Oct 23, 2021

All of my GC ISOs are currently in NKit format. I wasn't aware of the newer RVZ format and will probably just wait for NKit v2 if it will let me convert them. At present I'm not too bothered since I can still convert them back to 1:1 ISO if needed.

Once upon a time, Cowering's GoodTools was the standard ROM auditor and it solved way more problems than it created. Then No-Intro came along and did certain things better. Times change and formats evolve, but as long as something served a purpose during its time, it did good.

ber71 · Oct 23, 2021

NKIT is the best format ever for GameCube games (nintendont). WBFS for Wii. AFAIK RVZ can't be played on hardware.

Exidous · Oct 23, 2021

Nkit (nkit.iso trim, not compression) is an optimal solution for usb-stored Gamecube games via Nintendont on real Wii hardware. And I don't just mean in comparison with other available options, I mean an objectively optimal implementation.

It's weird for someone bragging about being a dev to bitch about someone else's software because they didn't understand it or don't use it. And a doubling down on that behavior, given the apparent lurch into shitting on USB Loader GX in this thread. If it's of no use to you fine, leave it at that.

Sniping aside, to address the OP's concern there are not a lot of people here who don't like NKit. There are some Dolphin purists elsewhere who have overblown exceptionally minor compatibility issues (that I'm not even sure exist), but their argument is essentially against incrementalism: that people should use older inferior formats while they await a supposedly perfect substitute in the future.

NKit is an unambiguous boon to communities like this one that are more focused on actual hardware, where NKit really shines.

N7Kopper · Oct 23, 2021

Exidous said:
Nkit (nkit.iso trim, not compression) is an optimal solution for Gamecube games on hardware or Nintendont. And I don't just mean in comparison with other available options, I mean an objectively optimal implementation.

So I don't have to retrim everything on my SD Card then.

All hardware/Nintendont enthusiasts need now is a direct "rip GCN game to perfect Nkit trim" option and it's golden. Anything smaller than that is compression, not optimisation - a whole different kettle of fish.