Covid-19 vaccine

Alright, kids, time out. Rather than go onto a full half page of "No, you do!", let us cut to the source and settle this.

bazamuffin said:

Nope. Walked out of a job end of June because they were trying to bully me into having it. I caught COVID and isolated for 10 days as per government guidelines. Come payday, they docked me 30% of my wages because I haven't had the vaccine. People who have had the vaccine and isolated for 10 days got full pay so I was discriminated against for making a choice that was mine to make. Should be a personal choice to have it or not, and nobody should be forced or manipulated into having it.

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This does sound like a gripe,since... y'know... you're bringing it up at all, but at the end of the day, it reminds me of a quote from one of the most powerful pieces of media ever made.


A little less blue than I remember, but you get the idea. @tsao is being a little belligerent about it because your "choice" endangers everyone around you, not completely unlike closing your eyes in a crowded room and throwing haymakers wildly in any direction. Your choice, sure, but if you hit or kill somebody you'll hopefully feel pretty bad well before your rights are taken from you via arrest for being a hazard to the public health. You should consider the science rather than the memes about self immunization and the like, and just go get yourself a jab.

Dakitten said:

@tsao is being a little belligerent about it because your "choice" endangers everyone around you

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It's more or less the fact that thanks to entities like muffin we're still far from ending this shit and the pandemic goes on and on. And I'm already tired of this pandemic lifestyle and the restrictions.

Sorry you feel that way

bazamuffin said:

Nope. Walked out of a job end of June because they were trying to bully me into having it. I caught COVID and isolated for 10 days as per government guidelines. Come payday, they docked me 30% of my wages because I haven't had the vaccine. People who have had the vaccine and isolated for 10 days got full pay so I was discriminated against for making a choice that was mine to make. Should be a personal choice to have it or not, and nobody should be forced or manipulated into having it.

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I'm curious, were you notified of the potential repercussions of not getting vaccinated? When your pay was docked, were you classified as "suspended without pay" or something similar along those lines? I can't get behind not getting a vaccination, but I also can't get behind a corporation using that as an excuse to keep their bottom dollar.

That's one thing I hate the most about a lot of these corporations. I've seen quite a few instances where companies are using the vaccine mandates in ways they shouldn't, which is not to say the mandates are to blame. These corporations should be held responsible for the underhanded tactics they chose to utilize. They're mudding up the waters to line their own pockets, making legitimate science take the fall and look bad in favor of corporate greed.

SyphenFreht said:

I'm curious, were you notified of the potential repercussions of not getting vaccinated? When your pay was docked, were you classified as "suspended without pay" or something similar along those lines? I can't get behind not getting a vaccination, but I also can't get behind a corporation using that as an excuse to keep their bottom dollar.

That's one thing I hate the most about a lot of these corporations. I've seen quite a few instances where companies are using the vaccine mandates in ways they shouldn't, which is not to say the mandates are to blame. These corporations should be held responsible for the underhanded tactics they chose to utilize. They're mudding up the waters to line their own pockets, making legitimate science take the fall and look bad in favor of corporate greed.

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I was given no prior warning nor was any memo/letter informing staff of this strategy issued. Plus side in it all, mental health is way better now and am currently enjoying life. So, it's been both a negative and a positive experience walking away. I didn't highlight the job thing as a gripe, merely to state how some companies/organisations threaten and manipulate people for something I believe should be a choice and isn't a legal requirement

bazamuffin said:

I was given no prior warning nor was any memo/letter informing staff of this strategy issued. Plus side in it all, mental health is way better now and am currently enjoying life. So, it's been both a negative and a positive experience walking away. I didn't highlight the job thing as a gripe, merely to state how some companies/organisations threaten and manipulate people for something I believe should be a choice and isn't a legal requirement

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I can't agree with your view on it being a legal requirement, only in the sense that most vaccinations have been a requirement in some form for literally centuries. However, I do feel that could constitute legal action on your part, should you choose to pursue, as your pay shouldn't have been docked without prior notification. Although, I could easily see a loophole the company can use, but that would require a bit more information that's not my intention to receive.

At least your mental health has improved. Congratulations on achieving that.

tsao said:

It's more or less the fact that thanks to entities like muffin we're still far from ending this shit and the pandemic goes on and on. And I'm already tired of this pandemic lifestyle and the restrictions.

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Ssssooo you think if everyone in the world suddenly got vaxxed the pandemic would instantly stop and all restrictions lifted?? No lad, just no... go and do the maths ffs!

I'm double vaxxed, kinda had to be for my job, not exactly arsed either way, but hey, I guess now I'm 78% less likely to catch a virus that I was only around 33% chance to develop symptoms even if I caught it, and if I were to develop symptoms - less than 1% chance of dying, even at 46 years of age.... Christ I am SSOO relieved for having it! /s
If my fellow muffin man (or anyone else for that matter) wishes not to get vaxxed, more power to them, I've no problem whatsoever! It's being in the same boat as you friggin annoying anti-anti vaxxers that think you're so right and how these people should be hung drawn and quartered that gets on my tits... I'm almost embarrassed to say I'm double vaxxed reading some of these posts on here....

mightymuffy said:

Ssssooo you think if everyone in the world suddenly got vaxxed the pandemic would instantly stop and all restrictions lifted?? No lad, just no... go and do the maths ffs!

I'm double vaxxed, kinda had to be for my job, not exactly arsed either way, but hey, I guess now I'm 78% less likely to catch a virus that I was only around 33% chance to develop symptoms even if I caught it, and if I were to develop symptoms - less than 1% chance of dying, even at 46 years of age.... Christ I am SSOO relieved for having it! /s
If my fellow muffin man (or anyone else for that matter) wishes not to get vaxxed, more power to them, I've no problem whatsoever! It's being in the same boat as you friggin annoying anti-anti vaxxers that think you're so right and how these people should be hung drawn and quartered that gets on my tits... I'm almost embarrassed to say I'm double vaxxed reading some of these posts on here....

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Precisely. You have been vaxxed, that is your choice and would never question you or try to ridicule you for that. 100% your choice. I hate how its divided us so much

mightymuffy said:

I'm almost embarrassed to say I'm double vaxxed reading some of these posts on here....

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go devaccinate yourself then, nobody will miss you LOL

mightymuffy said:

Ssssooo you think if everyone in the world suddenly got vaxxed the pandemic would instantly stop and all restrictions lifted?? No lad, just no... go and do the maths ffs!

I'm double vaxxed, kinda had to be for my job, not exactly arsed either way, but hey, I guess now I'm 78% less likely to catch a virus that I was only around 33% chance to develop symptoms even if I caught it, and if I were to develop symptoms - less than 1% chance of dying, even at 46 years of age.... Christ I am SSOO relieved for having it! /s
If my fellow muffin man (or anyone else for that matter) wishes not to get vaxxed, more power to them, I've no problem whatsoever! It's being in the same boat as you friggin annoying anti-anti vaxxers that think you're so right and how these people should be hung drawn and quartered that gets on my tits... I'm almost embarrassed to say I'm double vaxxed reading some of these posts on here....

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Oh, joy and rapture, another one... look friendo, you shouldn't flaunt your ignorance by throwing out numbers you clearly don't understand. This kind of behavior is why we have so... so many pages of this topic that should really be fairly cut and dry. I'm glad you've gotten the jab, but that doesn't mean you get to make decisions for the rest of us.

First things first, your health is nice and dandy for you, but the reason it was important that you got the shot wasn't just for your own health. You're right, with good health and not being too old, you might not ever have felt particularly bad symptoms! If the virus then stopped at you, and you chose not to get the jab and nothing significant happened, it would be a relatively safe gamble that thankfully didn't cause harm. Woo. The problem is that viruses are not isolated to just those who get really sick. You might still have spread it to a couple folk, maybe even more, and then the gamble gets worse and with escalating odds that keeps going up and up as it mutates and spreads in a population.

The vaccine helps to choke the virus off from potential hosts and limit spread. It'd be nice if it had greater efficacy, sure, but if everyone had it, herd immunity would possibly already be well underway with eliminating the virus altogether. Let me reiterate that. NO MORE VIRUS! Can one say that with certainty? No, but the odds would be decent and we'd all be better off than we are now for sure. There is no detriment to people vaccinating.

Now, on the flip side, "free choice" enthusiasts can continue to polish their grey matter to a smooth mirror shine while ranting about free choice, but they become potential bio-terrorists that can spread the disease along until it mutates and further reduces the efficacy of the current vaccine for those who have the jab, or even worse, spread it to those who CAN'T get the vaccine due to issues beyond their control.

This isn't a "more power to those who don't want it" sort of situation, this is an attack on society's ability to handle a pandemic thanks to some weirdos who don't like being told they have to consider the rights and freedoms of their neighbors too. I know many on this site think they've read and understood the fountainhead and now they're certain absolute libertarianism is where the world is headed, but it isn't where society is (or really should ever be) and we each have an obligation to not try and kill each other and ourselves with stubborn idiocy.

They’re forcing my family to have to hide out. This is what speaking up looks like. Millions of poor people are treated this way by the ppl you think are the ‘good guys.’ This is unconscionable.”

“Threatening my family in Trinidad won’t bode well for you.”

The Guardian Media journalist from Trinidad – Sharlene Rampersad – reached out to Minaj’s cousin, who she refers to as ‘Mr. Daniel,’ in a private chat on WhatsApp. She explained that CNN was also in the country “looking” for him and they would “not hesitate” to dox him and his girlfriend if they found them.

The reporter then shamelessly tries to claim that the man’s identity, and where his loved ones lived, would be safe if he completed an interview with Guardian Media.

Minaj’s cousin never responded to the intimidation.

From the messages posted by Minaj to her Instagram:

“My name is Sharlene Rampersad, I am a reporter with Guardian Media.

I was hoping to speak to you for an article. Would that be possible? – I am also hoping I have a conversation with your friend.

I know you are hesitant to speak with us.

But just letting you know, CNN is in the country looking for you – And when they find you, they won’t hesitate to reveal where you live or where your gf[girlfriend] live…anything and anyone who is tied to you.

If you speak to me, we won’t reveal those details.

So, what do you say?

Ms. Minaj is now awake. Some of us have been shaking some of you for a long time and you just roll over and hit snooze. Maybe one day it will dawn on you those crazy conspiracy theorists from the interwebz might have something worth listenin' to.

Imagine pretending Nikki Minaj is an authority on any subject rather than just another vapid D-list celebrity looking to distract from one scandal by using another.

And ending the post with a RATM song, really? You realize the machine they're raging against is capitalism and not medical science, right?

ConspiracyFactualist said:

They’re forcing my family to have to hide out. This is what speaking up looks like. Millions of poor people are treated this way by the ppl you think are the ‘good guys.’ This is unconscionable.”

“Threatening my family in Trinidad won’t bode well for you.”

The Guardian Media journalist from Trinidad – Sharlene Rampersad – reached out to Minaj’s cousin, who she refers to as ‘Mr. Daniel,’ in a private chat on WhatsApp. She explained that CNN was also in the country “looking” for him and they would “not hesitate” to dox him and his girlfriend if they found them.

The reporter then shamelessly tries to claim that the man’s identity, and where his loved ones lived, would be safe if he completed an interview with Guardian Media.

Minaj’s cousin never responded to the intimidation.

From the messages posted by Minaj to her Instagram:

“My name is Sharlene Rampersad, I am a reporter with Guardian Media.

I was hoping to speak to you for an article. Would that be possible? – I am also hoping I have a conversation with your friend.

I know you are hesitant to speak with us.

But just letting you know, CNN is in the country looking for you – And when they find you, they won’t hesitate to reveal where you live or where your gf[girlfriend] live…anything and anyone who is tied to you.

If you speak to me, we won’t reveal those details.

So, what do you say?

Ms. Minaj is now awake. Some of us have been shaking some of you for a long time and you just roll over and hit snooze. Maybe one day it will dawn on you those crazy conspiracy theorists from the interwebz might have something worth listenin' to.

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Something... like Nikki Minaj... no. Just no. Do not go past go, do not collect 200 dollars, go directly to crazyland and leave this thread alone. The way you snipped it, it doesn't even belong here.

ConspiracyFactualist said:

They’re forcing my family to have to hide out. This is what speaking up looks like. Millions of poor people are treated this way by the ppl you think are the ‘good guys.’ This is unconscionable.”

“Threatening my family in Trinidad won’t bode well for you.”

The Guardian Media journalist from Trinidad – Sharlene Rampersad – reached out to Minaj’s cousin, who she refers to as ‘Mr. Daniel,’ in a private chat on WhatsApp. She explained that CNN was also in the country “looking” for him and they would “not hesitate” to dox him and his girlfriend if they found them.

The reporter then shamelessly tries to claim that the man’s identity, and where his loved ones lived, would be safe if he completed an interview with Guardian Media.

Minaj’s cousin never responded to the intimidation.

From the messages posted by Minaj to her Instagram:

“My name is Sharlene Rampersad, I am a reporter with Guardian Media.

I was hoping to speak to you for an article. Would that be possible? – I am also hoping I have a conversation with your friend.

I know you are hesitant to speak with us.

But just letting you know, CNN is in the country looking for you – And when they find you, they won’t hesitate to reveal where you live or where your gf[girlfriend] live…anything and anyone who is tied to you.

If you speak to me, we won’t reveal those details.

So, what do you say?

Ms. Minaj is now awake. Some of us have been shaking some of you for a long time and you just roll over and hit snooze. Maybe one day it will dawn on you those crazy conspiracy theorists from the interwebz might have something worth listenin' to.

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I ain't reading any of this, I am just going to ask for sources. You got any sources?

bazamuffin said:

Nope. Walked out of a job end of June because they were trying to bully me into having it. I caught COVID and isolated for 10 days as per government guidelines. Come payday, they docked me 30% of my wages because I haven't had the vaccine. People who have had the vaccine and isolated for 10 days got full pay so I was discriminated against for making a choice that was mine to make. Should be a personal choice to have it or not, and nobody should be forced or manipulated into having it.

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Not being vaccinated is not a protected status. You are the one who chose to not be vaccinated and your work had chosen to see that as a reason to dock your pay. I honestly hope we start seeing more workplaces docking the pay of people who are posing a threat to the rest of their staff. Not being vaccinated is a threat to everyone else and should be treated as such. The only expectation is those with preexisting conditions, which in most cases, are most likely either not working with too many people or are working in limited capacities or should really be working from home for their own safety.

Lilith Valentine said:

Not being vaccinated is not a protected status. You are the one who chose to not be vaccinated and your work had chosen to see that as a reason to dock your pay. I honestly hope we start seeing more workplaces docking the pay of people who are posing a threat to the rest of their staff. Not being vaccinated is a threat to everyone else and should be treated as such. The only expectation is those with preexisting conditions, which in most cases, are most likely either not working with too many people or are working in limited capacities or should really be working from home for their own safety.

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They didn't dock pay which would be discriminatory. They just didn't give the full statutory sick pay during self-isolation which is a different thing, although I'm not sure of any legal ramifications there but I assume it's allowed as (mentioned previously) a large supermarket also decided to do this (and faced quite a large boycott as a result but I assume nothing more).

subcon959 said:

They didn't dock pay which would be discriminatory. They just didn't give the full statutory sick pay during self-isolation which is a different thing, although I'm not sure of any legal ramifications there but I assume it's allowed as (mentioned previously) a large supermarket also decided to do this (and faced quite a large boycott as a result but I assume nothing more).

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Ah, I still stand by my statements though. Those refusing to be vaccinated are a threat to their workplace and should see some form of ramification if something happens, like not getting full sick leave if they get covid.

Lilith Valentine said:

Ah, I still stand by my statements though. Those refusing to be vaccinated are a threat to their workplace and should see some form of ramification if something happens, like not getting full sick leave if they get covid.

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I've been trying harder to err on the side of kindness and compassion as I get older, but I do understand the sentiment and frustration. It's possible we'd have better success with the former though rather than making people feel bad for being too scared to do something. I've actually had good results from being nice, answering questions and explaining things sincerely (in person not online) when dealing with people with doubts and concerns.

mightymuffy said:

I'm double vaxxed, kinda had to be for my job, not exactly arsed either way, but hey, I guess now I'm 78% less likely to catch a virus that I was only around 33% chance to develop symptoms even if I caught it, and if I were to develop symptoms - less than 1% chance of dying, even at 46 years of age

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After 219 million cases and 4.55 million deaths worldwide then reducing hospitalizations and deaths is a huge deal.

Especially when you consider that to even keep the death toll to 4.55 million, we had to shut down so many businesses and stay at home.

The "it's less than 1% chance" is misleading because it sounds like a small number, but even small percentages of 7.674 billion people is still a very large number.

subcon959 said:

I've been trying harder to err on the side of kindness and compassion as I get older, but I do understand the sentiment and frustration. It's possible we'd have better success with the former though rather than making people feel bad for being too scared to do something. I've actually had good results from being nice, answering questions and explaining things sincerely (in person not online) when dealing with people with doubts and concerns.

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When the majority of people who aren't vaccinated are unable to accept sincere explanations without diving into some deep state delusion, I'm not sure that your strategy will work.

The only thing that seems to work on individuals is when they are about to die they tell all their friends they were wrong and they should get vaccinated. Those pleas don't appear to have any effect on the people who aren't currently hospitalized though.

subcon959 said:

They just didn't give the full statutory sick pay during self-isolation which is a different thing, although I'm not sure of any legal ramifications there but I assume it's allowed as (mentioned previously) a large supermarket also decided to do this (and faced quite a large boycott as a result but I assume nothing more).

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The term statutory would seem to be relevant here (at least in the UK).

The tribunal found it easy to come to a decision in this case; there's nothing in the SSP Regulations which refers to self-inflicted injuries. The rules simply say that where an employee is “unfit for work due to incapacity or illness” he or she is entitled to receive SSP

However, if your contract says that you are entitled to more than statutory but they deem it's self inflicted then I'm sure that they could drop to SSP.

subcon959 said:

I've been trying harder to err on the side of kindness and compassion as I get older, but I do understand the sentiment and frustration. It's possible we'd have better success with the former though rather than making people feel bad for being too scared to do something. I've actually had good results from being nice, answering questions and explaining things sincerely (in person not online) when dealing with people with doubts and concerns.

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I tend to be pretty chill but this is kind of one area where there's a clear threat to others that can't be respected in my book. I want to be kind but it's getting to the point where it's just unacceptable. I guess I could try to be kinder though.

smf said:

After 219 million cases and 4.55 million deaths worldwide then reducing hospitalizations and deaths is a huge deal.

Especially when you consider that to even keep the death toll to 4.55 million, we had to shut down so many businesses and stay at home.

The "it's less than 1% chance" is misleading because it sounds like a small number, but even small percentages of 7.674 billion people is still a very large number.



When the majority of people who aren't vaccinated are unable to accept sincere explanations without diving into some deep state delusion, I'm not sure that your strategy will work.

The only thing that seems to work on individuals is when they are about to die they tell all their friends they were wrong and they should get vaccinated. Those pleas don't appear to have any effect on the people who aren't currently hospitalized though.

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Its getting harder and harder to not adopt a "let em all just die off" kind of attitude considering all the statistics and science behind it that's provable. Unfortunately, dealing with issues like this are in the same vein as drug dealers and piracy; you need to attack the source, in this case politicized science, because a lot of people are just too dumb to do reputable research and believe what their political ideology aligns with. It's all a big cluster fuck and we're all caught in the middle.