Hearings about January 6 capital

Foxi4 · Aug 1, 2021

Xzi said:
Yes that's what I said. They were called in late because Trump enjoyed what he was seeing.

This is untrue as stated above. They showed up late because the Capitol Police refused to invite them - the request was already approved by the Pentagon long before the first shoe stood on the first step of the stairs. Trump literally cannot deploy them in the Capitol on a whim, it is not up to him, it's up to the Capitol authorities.

Some of the capitol police being on the insurrectionists' side here does not excuse anyone's behavior, it only further demonstrates the need for thorough investigation into the day's events.

Evidence-free statement.

Angry rednecks tried to prevent the peaceful transition of power, unsuccessfully. That's an entirely apt description of what actually happened.

What are you talking about? The transition of power didn't take place on the 6th, it took place on the 20th and was peaceful.

It's a matter of record that Pence and several other people called Trump directly and begged him to deploy the National Guard that day. He obviously has that authority.

The National Guard does not have the authority to enter Capitol grounds unless invited. This is a safety precaution to prevent the President or the Pentagon from just executing Congress at will. The Guard was already authorised for deployment - requested by the Mayor and approved by the Army Secretary. They were waiting to be invited by the Capitol, and they came as soon as they were invited. If you don't know how this process works, perhaps you shouldn't speak about it with conviction.

Xzi · Aug 1, 2021

Foxi4 said:
Evidence-free statement.

You just said yourself that some of the capitol police let the mob through. Those that acted appropriately that day knew people weren't allowed in the capitol building and resisted them.

Foxi4 said:
What are you talking about? The transition of power didn't take place on the 6th, it took place on the 20th and was peaceful.

You know damn well the vote had to be certified by Congress that day and that plenty of Republicans voted against certifying legitimate election results. Don't play dumb with me.

Foxi4 said:
The National Guard does not have the authority to enter Capitol grounds unless invited. This is a safety precaution to prevent the President or the Pentagon from just executing Congress at will. The Guard was already authorised for deployment - requested by the Mayor and approved by the Army Secretary. They were waiting to be invited by the Capitol, and they came as soon as they were invited. If you don't know how this process works, perhaps you shouldn't speak about it with conviction.

The issue was not that they were waiting outside to be invited in like goddamn vampires, it was that they showed up so late to begin with. And I can assure you Trump had EVERYTHING to do with that delay, especially if you're telling me everybody else had already given the green light prior (duh).

Foxi4 · Aug 1, 2021

Xzi said:
You just said yourself that some of the capitol police let the mob through. Those that acted appropriately that day knew people weren't allowed in the capitol building and resisted them.

I'm pretty sure that the Capitol was technically open for tourist visits on that day, but I'd have to double-check. Normally it's open Monday-Friday 8:00 AM till 5:00 PM. The doors were closed because, y'know, there's was a hundred thousand strong demonstration outside. The doors were opened because, presumably, someone gave the order to do so. Investigate that, by all means.

You know damn well the vote had to be certified by Congress that day and that plenty of Republicans voted against certifying legitimate election results. Don't play dumb with me.

...and this would've stopped certification... how exactly? Delayed, maybe - stopped? No.

The issue was not that they were waiting outside to be invited in like goddamn vampires, it was that they showed up so late to begin with. And I can assure you Trump had EVERYTHING to do with that delay, especially if you're telling me everybody else had already given the green light prior (duh).

Sure. He also controls the weather.

The Guard should've been there *the day before*, like they were supposed to. They were not "delayed" by anything other than the Capitol's reluctance in terms of accepting help. Trump had nothing to do with any of this - he couldn't delay *or* hasten their arrival. The troops were already mobilised, but they don't deploy at the drop of a hat - it's an armed unit, not a queue in front of Target on Black Friday. Takes a hot minute to move men and gear around.

Xzi · Aug 1, 2021

Foxi4 said:
The doors were opened because, presumably, someone gave the order to do so. Investigate that, by all means.

Indeed. Several among the capitol police leadership resigned in shame after January 6th, but that doesn't mean they should be let off the hook if they gave orders that endangered lives.

Foxi4 said:
...and this would've stopped certification... how exactly?

Again, nobody has ever accused Republicans of being the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree. They hoped the hours-long delay they caused for the process would be enough. Obviously they were wrong. It's always referred to as an attempted insurrection for a reason.

Foxi4 said:
Sure. He also controls the weather.

So now we're pretending "commander-in-chief controls a branch of the US armed forces" is a conspiracy theory? Unless Trump has paid you off personally, I don't think the mental gymnastics used to reason that one out were worth it.

Foxi4 · Aug 1, 2021

Xzi said:
Indeed. Several among the capitol police leadership resigned in shame after January 6th, but that doesn't mean they should be let off the hook if they gave orders that endangered lives.

Cool.

Again, nobody has ever accused Republicans of being the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree. They hoped the hours-long delay they caused for the process would be enough. Obviously they were wrong. It's always referred to as an attempted insurrection for a reason.

Last I checked, it was the Democrats who were in charge of Congress when a bunch of turbo autists smeared feces all over the walls of the seat of Government because they "didn't expect a big demonstration" and "they figured they'll just let them in and nothing will happen" - I would be careful about discussing competence in regards to this event. As far as I'm concerned, the stars aligned perfectly to make everyone on the scene temporarily dumber than a kumquat.

So now we're pretending "commander-in-chief controls a branch of the US armed forces" is a conspiracy theory? Unless Trump has paid you off personally, I don't think the mental gymnastics used to reason that one out were worth it.

1. The sitting president does not have the authority to deploy armed forces in the Capitol, whether it be the National Guard, the Army or any other branch. If he did, he would have the power to single-handedly overturn the entire Congress on a whim.

2. If you have evidence that he ordered them personally to stay put, please present it. As it stands, Mayor Bowser requested the help of D.C. National Guard on the 31st and the request was approved, this was widely reported on, so it's not a "conspiracy theory", it's fact.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/muriel-bowser-dc-national-guard-protests/index.html

As far as the Guard was concerned, they could've deployed there beforehand, had they been invited - nobody "delayed" them besides the Capitol authorities themselves. Why were they not allowed on the grounds beforehand? Or even requested to be there? Let's investigate that. January 6th wouldn't have happened at all if the area was cordoned off like it should've been. Who delayed who, exactly? We're not talking about hours, we're talking about days.

Edit: The Pentagon confirms that there was *no Capitol Police request for DoD support* as early as January 3rd, the Capitol authorities repeat that they see no need for additional support in the following days as well. They were offered help and refused each time. It's in their official timeline. The Guard literally had the green light to march right in, had they been allowed to do so.

https://media.defense.gov/2021/Jan/...Y-6-2021-VIOLENT-ATTACK-AT-THE-US-CAPITOL.PDF

If the Pentagon's spokesperson Jonathan Hoffman is to be believed and the timeline above is accurate, the Guard could've been deployed days in advance, but wasn't asked to enter the grounds until it was too late. They were asked to perform traffic duty, and they did just that until a new request was filed and the Guard was graciously invited to help.

Edit2: In case the point isn't driven into the ground yet, here's the testimony of the Acting U.S. Capitol Police Chief Yogananda Pittman, who says pretty much the same thing.

"The Department failed to meet its own high standards as well as yours (...) Let me be clear: the Department should have been more prepared for this attack (...) By January 4th, the Department knew that the January 6th event would not be like any of the previous protests held in 2020. We knew that militia groups and white supremacists organizations would be attending. We also knew that some of these participants were intending to bring firearms and other weapons to the event. We knew that there was a strong potential for violence and that Congress was the target."

Oh, so they knew, but...

Despite the early warning signs, Pittman writes, the Capitol Police Board refused a request from former USCP Chief Steven Sund to declare a state of emergency and authorize a request for National Guard support. The board consists of the Sergeant at Arms of the U.S. House of Representatives, the Sergeant at Arms and Doorkeeper of the U.S. Senate, and the Architect of the Capitol. (...) Instead, the Board directed Sund to reach out to D.C. National Guard to determine how many could be sent to the Capitol on short notice.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/yogananda-pittman-capitol-police-chief-apologizes-riot/

To translate from pencil pusher speak to English, "we won't ask for support now, but if something dooooes happen then we'll give you a call". Good job.

Trump's fault though, not a collective f*ck-up of the Capitol authorities. If it's too cold, Trump's fault, if it's too warm, Trump's fault, if it rains, if it shines, it's always on Trump.

Xzi · Aug 1, 2021

Foxi4 said:
Last I checked, it was the Democrats who were in charge of Congress when a bunch of turbo autists smeared feces all over the walls of the seat of Government because they "didn't expect a big demonstration" and "they figured they'll just let them in and nothing will happen" - I would be careful about discussing competence in regards to this event.

The capitol police did reject additional help despite all the warnings that the crowd was going to be massive and angry, which again makes you wonder how many Trump loyalists there were among their leadership. Greater numbers wouldn't have helped much if half the security detail still just let terrorists right through.

Foxi4 said:
If you have evidence that he ordered them personally to stay put, please present it.

It's not that a order was given to stay put, it's that the order (which came from Trump's Defense Department) came three hours late. It was well within the president's power to expedite that, but he was more concerned with using the National Guard to keep Vanilla ISIS safe.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/03/9732...guard-request-during-capitol-riot-commander-s

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/co...botched-capitol-riot-preparations-2021-05-12/

Trump's personal role in the January 6 insurrection attempt is only one of several reasons why Republicans didn't want a bipartisan commission to investigate, and why they're now trying to memory hole the events of the day (with your assistance apparently).

stanleyopar2000 · Aug 1, 2021

OH BOY...

another thread that will do sweet fuck all to change anyone's minds since fake news and misinformation is a fucking disease and gullible people believe it....

Foxi4 · Aug 1, 2021

Xzi said:
The capitol police did reject additional help despite all the warnings that the crowd was going to be massive and angry, which again makes you wonder how many Trump loyalists there were among their leadership. Greater numbers wouldn't have helped much if half the security detail still just let terrorists right through.

I bet many of them were Russian too.

It's not that a order was given to stay put, it's that the order (which came from Trump's Defense Department) came three hours late. It was well within the president's power to expedite that, but he was more concerned with using the National Guard to keep Vanilla ISIS safe.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/03/9732...guard-request-during-capitol-riot-commander-s

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/co...botched-capitol-riot-preparations-2021-05-12/

Trump's personal role in the January 6 insurrection attempt is only one of several reasons why Republicans didn't want a bipartisan commission to investigate, and why they're now trying to memory hole the events of the day (with your assistance apparently).

With all due respect, I posted a play-by-play timeline of events, as recorded by the Pentagon - they went through all the required red tape as quickly as possible. It's nice that you have some articles that claim the DoD took its sweet time with the matter, but ultimately the Capitol authorities had multiple chances to request the Guard's presence prior to the event and chose to wait until the very last minute - they couldn't have possibly expected the guardsmen to just go straight to the armory, suit up and teleport there, that's not how that works. They're guardsmen, not the Power Rangers. I also see nothing wrong with Trump saying that the guardsmen should "protect protestors who are exercising their rights" - clearly he's not referring to the riot, which he immediately condemned.

stanleyopar2000 · Aug 1, 2021

so....@Foxi4, how do you like Duda?

Foxi4 · Aug 1, 2021

stanleyopar2000 said:
@Foxi4, how do you like Duda?

I don't live in Poland and I don't keep tabs on the political climate back at home since I have no intention of ever returning. The only Polish politician I like will never get to enjoy any kind of legislative power. I don't like any of the "electable" parties, and wouldn't vote for any of them.

stanleyopar2000 · Aug 1, 2021

Foxi4 said:
I don't live in Poland and I don't keep tabs on the political climate back at home since I have no intention of ever returning. The only Polish politician I like will never get to enjoy any kind of legislative power. I don't like any of the "electable" parties, and wouldn't vote for any of them.

Sorry mate saw the flag and thought you lived there. From the way things are going, I do not blame you.

Xzi · Aug 1, 2021

Foxi4 said:
I bet many of them were Russian too.

I'm sure their vetting during recruitment is quite lacking, but there's no reason to hire Russians when confederates hate the US just as much.

Foxi4 said:
It's nice that you have some articles that claim the DoD took its sweet time with the matter, but ultimately the Capitol authorities had multiple chances to request the Guard's presence prior to the event and chose to wait until the very last minute - they couldn't have possibly expected that guardsmen will just go straight to the armory, suit up and teleport there, that's not how that works.

"It's nice that you blew apart my narrative in its entirety, but I'm just gonna go on pretending that never happened."

This is why we need further investigation and clarification. Any number of people who should be facing criminal charges continue to live their lives as normal, and some even continue to wield power in Congress.

Foxi4 · Aug 1, 2021

stanleyopar2000 said:
Sorry mate saw the flag and thought you lived there. From the way things are going, I do not blame you.

I'm proud of my heritage, not necessarily proud of where Poland is right now in terms of sociopolitical climate - now and in at least the last 10 years, to be perfectly honest.

Xzi said:
I'm sure their vetting during recruitment is quite lacking, but there's no reason to hire Russians when confederates hate the US just as much.

I tend not to attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. They just made a stupid decision at the time, it doesn't have to be a conspiracy. I'm okay with charges of negligence though, since they were negligent.

"It's nice that you blew apart my narrative in its entirety, but I'm just gonna go on pretending that never happened."

This is why we need further investigation and clarification. Any number of people who should be facing criminal charges continue to live their lives as normal, and some even continue to wield power in Congress.

Blew apart the narrative? With an NPR article? Okay. These are official calls to and from the Pentagon, they're recorded. There's a very detailed record of what happened when and who was involved.

Dakitten · Aug 1, 2021

Foxi4 said:
I'm a libertarian. My position has always been that there should be gallows in front of Congress 24/7 - not necessarily to hang anyone, but just to keep them honest.

Just kind of a general observation... Jimbo, 8bit, TMNT Crazyfly, all of you "Libertarians" seem pretty quick to dismiss the value of a human life. Isn't the freedom to live the most important one of all? The way many of you folk talk, it seems less like traditional conservative values and more a desire to see the world turn into an authoritarian state working on the behalf of the status quo, hating government when it is convenient but placing unrivaled trust in a few like-minded individuals.

Foxi4 · Aug 2, 2021

Dakitten said:
Just kind of a general observation... Jimbo, 8bit, TMNT Crazyfly, all of you "Libertarians" seem pretty quick to dismiss the value of a human life. Isn't the freedom to live the most important one of all? The way many of you folk talk, it seems less like traditional conservative values and more a desire to see the world turn into an authoritarian state working on the behalf of the status quo, hating government when it is convenient but placing unrivaled trust in a few like-minded individuals.

I would appreciate it if you didn't compare me to conservatives, especially not Republicans, since our values and objectives do not align. I don't dismiss the value of human life - I acknowledge the amount of power and responsibility vested in the members of government. They enjoy certain privileges us peons do not for the express purpose of representing our interests. If they betray the trust vested in them, that's treasonous, and treason has a set punishment in law. The gallows line is obviously tongue in cheek - perhaps the joke flew over your head, but the sentiment is very real. The government consists of civil servants, not rulers, and I treat that principle very seriously.

Dakitten · Aug 2, 2021

Foxi4 said:
I would appreciate it if you didn't compare me to conservatives, especially not Republicans, since our values and objectives do not align. I don't dismiss the value of human life - I acknowledge the amount of power and responsibility vested in the members of government. They enjoy certain privileges us peons do not for the express purpose of representing our interest. If they betray the trust vested in them, that's treasonous, and treason has a set punishment in law. The gallows line is obviously tongue in cheek - perhaps the joke flew over your head, but the sentiment is very real. The government consists of civil servants, not rulers, and I treat that principle very seriously.

It isn't very tongue in cheek if you mean it all but entirely literally. I'll apologize for comparing you with some of those other folk mentioned, in truth I've enjoyed your input a great deal more and you do have a bit of my respect in turn! I still feel as though you don't engage in absolute sincerity as an interlocutor, however, as you do generally come off as looking down at those you converse with.

I've been in public service just about my entire life. As an airman, a non-profit instructor, a nurse, and even doing... well, I signed on to do IT for the registrar's office but fluff all if I haven't been used in every department by now, it has been my distinct pleasure to work for the betterment of my fellow man. There are a LOT of people who make questionable decisions all the way through the chain of command, both in the military and civilian service, but at the end of the day, nobody is there because they are aiming for the pinnacle of profit or self gain... unless they're paid to be there by the folks outside of those halls. As soon as off-site money crosses hands, everything I just said flies right out of the window.

My point in this is that the police officers in those riots, they weren't being lobbied by one side or another. They might have their own views, which they are very much entitled to hold and even voice so far as it doesn't conflict with their personal job duties, and they suffered in the line of duty while defending this country. Their patriotism is the last thing anybody should question, unlike those who held the rally which, like it or not, drew in the rioters and did nothing but stoke their rage and peddle lies. Lies told by people who do not receive the bulk of their humble earnings by the sweat of their brow, but by the draw to the wealthy and powerful interests which bribe them.

I don't love either party. Red and Blue doesn't matter a whole lot when it comes to what ails this country behind the scenes... but if just in honour of those who put their bodies in harms way, these hearings should be taken seriously and those officers should be treated with at least enough respect to hear them out without sneering. Some might be over-blowing their experiences, but that is no excuse to dismiss their service outright. And if you want to criticize them without ever having served yourself (not speaking to foxi directly), you probably ought to consider walking a mile in their shoes first so you can understand what it means to work for the benefit of others as a whole.

Xzi · Aug 2, 2021

Foxi4 said:
I tend not to attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. They just made a stupid decision at the time, it doesn't have to be a conspiracy. I'm okay with charges of negligence though, since they were negligent.

I don't think "Trump supporters within the capitol police sided with Trump supporters in the insurrectionist mob" is complicated enough to be called a conspiracy. But I'm willing to withhold judgment on their exact motivations until we get more details.

Foxi4 said:
These are official calls to and from the Pentagon, they're recorded. There's a very detailed record of what happened when and who was involved.

Right, just as the three hour delay caused by the DoD is a matter of record, one that nobody seems to have a suitable explanation for.

jimbo13 · Aug 2, 2021

Dakitten said:
Just kind of a general observation... Jimbo, 8bit, TMNT Crazyfly, all of you "Libertarians" seem pretty quick to dismiss the value of a human life. Isn't the freedom to live the most important one of all? The way many of you folk talk, it seems less like traditional conservative values and more a desire to see the world turn into an authoritarian state working on the behalf of the status quo, hating government when it is convenient but placing unrivaled trust in a few like-minded individuals.

I don't really have traditional conservative values, I appreciate Foxi's comments but I'm not as idealistic as he is anymore.

I have two wives, a girl friend and a good weekend for us consists of DMT, Mushrooms, weed and hanging out in our woods and playing Djembe's.

No one would consider my lifestyle conservative.

I vote GOP generally out of practicality and compromise, in the past I've liked as many traditional Liberals as Republicans, I loathe McConnell, Bush, Cheney, Romney, and the entirety of the Neocon wing and would never vote for anyone in that branch, not much for the evangelicals either. Rand Paul is the most recent approximation to "my brand".

Bernie Sanders for example, if I don't include recent years I've liked him more often than not. Politically the only substantive difference between Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders when it comes to issues I care about is Economics.

I would of voted for the Bernie Sanders that was elected to the senate on a NRA endorsement, not 2016/2020 Bernie.

My mount Rushmore is Ron Paul, Ralph Nader, Jesse Ventura & Penn Jillette.

I write Ted Kaczynski monthly and send care packages, I consider the man a friend. I have a signed Manifesto framed on my wall, it's not exactly an ideology at home in the Republican party.

What you perceive as dismissing the value of a human life is a disdain for modern society and collectivism, it bares no resemblance to how I treat an individual.

Foxi4 · Aug 2, 2021

Dakitten said:
It isn't very tongue in cheek if you mean it all but entirely literally. I'll apologize for comparing you with some of those other folk mentioned, in truth I've enjoyed your input a great deal more and you do have a bit of my respect in turn! I still feel as though you don't engage in absolute sincerity as an interlocutor, however, as you do generally come off as looking down at those you converse with.

I've been in public service just about my entire life. As an airman, a non-profit instructor, a nurse, and even doing... well, I signed on to do IT for the registrar's office but fluff all if I haven't been used in every department by now, it has been my distinct pleasure to work for the betterment of my fellow man. There are a LOT of people who make questionable decisions all the way through the chain of command, both in the military and civilian service, but at the end of the day, nobody is there because they are aiming for the pinnacle of profit or self gain... unless they're paid to be there by the folks outside of those halls. As soon as off-site money crosses hands, everything I just said flies right out of the window.

My point in this is that the police officers in those riots, they weren't being lobbied by one side or another. They might have their own views, which they are very much entitled to hold and even voice so far as it doesn't conflict with their personal job duties, and they suffered in the line of duty while defending this country. Their patriotism is the last thing anybody should question, unlike those who held the rally which, like it or not, drew in the rioters and did nothing but stoke their rage and peddle lies. Lies told by people who do not receive the bulk of their humble earnings by the sweat of their brow, but by the draw to the wealthy and powerful interests which bribe them.

I don't love either party. Red and Blue doesn't matter a whole lot when it comes to what ails this country behind the scenes... but if just in honour of those who put their bodies in harms way, these hearings should be taken seriously and those officers should be treated with at least enough respect to hear them out without sneering. Some might be over-blowing their experiences, but that is no excuse to dismiss their service outright. And if you want to criticize them without ever having served yourself (not speaking to foxi directly), you probably ought to consider walking a mile in their shoes first so you can understand what it means to work for the benefit of others as a whole.

I consider making the conversation lively as my primary purpose - my main motivator is entertainment. This means that often times I will purposefully play the devil's advocate, which may or may not reflect my actual positions. I hate echo chambers, which is how most political boards tend to operate. In contrast, I would like ours to be an actual forum for exchange of ideas, which will by extension often include unpopular ones. I like to pull people's legs every now and then, but don't mistake that for ignorance of the issues or anything of the sort - I usually have a good reason to say what I say, and that reason tends to reveal itself in the course of conversations here. You've heard of 4D Chess, now try 5D upside-down underwater Hungry Hungry Hippos. I think I told you this before - I don't look for respect or social brownie points, I'm looking to have some fun, and maybe learn something new, which is what we should all be aiming for instead of fence sitting.

Dakitten · Aug 2, 2021

jimbo13 said:
I don't really have traditional conservative values, I appreciate Foxi's comments but I'm not as idealistic as he is anymore.

I have two wives, a girl friend and a good weekend for us consists of DMT, Mushrooms, weed and hanging out in our woods and playing Djembe's.

No one would consider my lifestyle conservative.

I vote GOP generally out of practicality and compromise, in the past I've liked as many traditional Liberals as Republicans, I loathe McConnell, Bush, Cheney, Romney, and the entirety of the Neocon wing and would never vote for anyone in that branch, not much for the evangelicals either. Rand Paul is the most recent approximation to "my brand".

Bernie Sanders for example, if I don't include recent years I've liked him more often than not. Politically the only substantive difference between Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders when it comes to issues I care about is Economics.

I would of voted for the Bernie Sanders that was elected to the senate on a NRA endorsement, not 2016/2020 Bernie.

My mount Rushmore is Ron Paul, Ralph Nader, Jesse Ventura & Penn Jillette.

I write Ted Kaczynski monthly and send care packages, I consider the man a friend. I have a signed Manifesto framed on my wall, it's not exactly an ideology at home in the Republican party.

What you perceive as dismissing the value of a human life is a disdain for modern society and collectivism, it bares no resemblance to how I treat an individual.

D'aww, you do care! I knew you couldn't keep me on block, silly billy!

But seriously though, you sound like you're literally saying you live the modern neo-con ideal lifestyle. Libertarian, "super skeptic", still rocking the alpha-male concept while indulging in personal choices that at least mildly break the law, and your views on individuals versus the masses completely embraces this notion that you, individually, matter more than others because you're doing okay and you're absolutely super smart and has biggus wang. You still vote right, with the added caveat that "I'm a special exception snowflake though, they're just closest to MY viewpoints. I got better ones, though!"

The recreational drug use does explain a fair bit of your writing errors, though...

Foxi4 said:
I consider making the conversation lively as my primary purpose - my main motivator is entertainment. This means that often times I will purposefully play the devil's advocate, which may or may not reflect my actual positions. I hate echo chambers, which is how most political boards tend to operate. In contrast, I would like ours to be an actual forum for exchange of ideas, which will by extension often include unpopular ones. I like to pull people's legs every now and then, but don't mistake that for ignorance of the issues or anything of the sort - I usually have a good reason to say what I say, and that reason tends to reveal itself in the course of conversations here. You've heard of 4D Chess, now try 5D upside-down underwater Hungry Hungry Hippos. I think I told you this before - I don't look for respect or social brownie points, I'm looking to have some fun, and maybe learn something new, which is what we should all be aiming for instead of fence sitting.

That isn't 4D chess, though. To many people involved, this sort of thing isn't a game. Politics and current events go hand in hand and drastically alter their daily lives. Protests, uncertainty, increasing costs in rent and goods, persecution against race and gender, this is all relevant stuff. I'm glad you're able to ignore that aspect and try to draw amusement out of things, but this means you aren't really engaging at an equal level with others at all. You're taunting from a place of safety with the promise that you have benign intentions all the while.

Also, just straight up, the "echo chamber" you proclaim to try and break up is almost always to the one side that you at least purport to dislike. I respect your ability to fight right wing points better than your peers, you seem like an intelligent enough fellow, but you also seem to have a really bad habit of citing the first source on google you can find with a viewpoint that matches your own, treating it like gospel, and ignoring anything else the person you were talking to said.

You seem to harbor genuine animosity the left, but don't want to align to the right. You prod at little things without taking a firm stance, then proclaim you're just trying to stir the pot. That sounds like you're on the fence while leaning off the side, comrade. Everyone else is taking a side, maybe you should be more genuine in your stance too.

Hearings about January 6 capital

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