Hearings about January 6 capital

Taleweaver · Aug 1, 2021

BitMasterPlus said:
Laugh now, but the checks and balances of the law in the US is hanging by thread now, only one more push of something drastic happening before all hell breaks loose.

Ever noticed that since Biden became president, those 'pushes' have completely vanished?
The US didn't start a civil war over Helsinki (Trump almost literally sucking Putin's cock), the longest government shutdown, Mueller's report, the Supreme Court stacking, pressuring Ukraine to create political dirt, (at least) 100'000 unnecessary covid deaths or the terrorist attack on the capitol. All those (and probably more) deeply divided the already divided political us landscape more and more.
But while under Trump's watch, he always had the back of the majority of Republicans on these situations (and thus the people). Without Trump, though, would be a welcome new start for Republicans. Right now they're aligning themselves with him because they've got no other option. The prosecution would give them an excuse to distance themselves from it (expect a lot of 'I disagreed with him personally but it was my job to leverage his will). Of course it's a political suicide for most of them, but you can bet they'll turn on him like Trump turned on most of them who chose their ideals over Trump's whims.

Result : that 'civil war' you talk about will have even less people on Trump's side than January 6th.
I won't lie : it'd be a while different situation if Trump was actually smart. But he's not. At least not smart enough to successfully undermine the US democracy (which, in all fairness, isn't easy).

Dakitten · Aug 1, 2021

Foxi4 said:
The peculiarities are all that matters in a case like this. Sicknick was definitely assaulted, that much we know, but if the examiner is correct then he was not murdered. The testimony is doubly suspect considering some of the officers displayed strong anti-trump (to put it mildly) sentiment on Twitter long before the riot, but I presume they've all disabled their social media now since I can't find the relevant accounts - I'd have to look through archived copies to provide a snippet or two. All it seemed to me was a very tearful play that relied on emotions as opposed to hard facts, but admittedly I didn't watch the entire hearing just yet since it's intensely boring.
"Natural causes" means that whatever injuries are present on the body at the time of the examination did not lead to or accelerate the death. In other words, it's not a homicide. Stress might've had some impact, but there's no way to measure that accurately. As it stands, the injuries sustained did not hasten Sicknick's death, but *the events* possibly could've. If his health was so poor that he succumbed to stroke due to stress, especially stress which is inherently tied to being a law enforcement officer, he should've been retired at this point. I feel for his family, I really do, but it appears that his poor health was the primary cause of his death.

What exactly are you looking for here? Vindication for the rioters by not having been primarily responsible for this murder? It is a bit of a hard sell, but take that as you will. It still doesn't change the cruelty and violence of the day, and the officers genuinely experienced trauma at the hands of traitors to the country intent on overturning the will of the people. Most Americans happen to be anti-Trump, he had absolute garbage approval numbers and sold people terrible steak and video landline phones in the age of cellular. He clearly is not and was not in touch with reality, and spun a narrative that promoted ignorance and incited violence. His rally prior to the event was a call to action, and he can boo hoo AFTER most of the damage was done (while still not denouncing the protesters) but at the end of the day, he was ONCE AGAIN responsible for subverting the rule of law.

Also, most Americans can't afford to just abandon their job because of health issues. If you feel for his family, maybe look at systems of governance that would have helped him retire from his post without jeopardizing the basic needs of himself and his kin?

Foxi4 · Aug 1, 2021

Dakitten said:
What exactly are you looking for here? Vindication for the rioters by not having been primarily responsible for this murder? It is a bit of a hard sell, but take that as you will. It still doesn't change the cruelty and violence of the day, and the officers genuinely experienced trauma at the hands of traitors to the country intent on overturning the will of the people. Most Americans happen to be anti-Trump, he had absolute garbage approval numbers and sold people terrible steak and video landline phones in the age of cellular. He clearly is not and was not in touch with reality, and spun a narrative that promoted ignorance and incited violence. His rally prior to the event was a call to action, and he can boo hoo AFTER most of the damage was done (while still not denouncing the protesters) but at the end of the day, he was ONCE AGAIN responsible for subverting the rule of law.

Also, most Americans can't afford to just abandon their job because of health issues. If you feel for his family, maybe look at systems of governance that would have helped him retire from his post without jeopardizing the basic needs of himself and his kin?

I'm not looking for anything. It was stated earlier in the thread that 4-5 people died that day (or immediately thereafter). That paints the impression that 4-5 people were killed during the riot, which is not the case - one person was killed - Ashli Babbit, shot by the security detail.

As for being or not being able to afford to quit your job, physical fitness is a prerequisite for being a law enforcement officer. If a given officer is no longer fit to serve, they must necessarily be relieved of duty, specifically to prevent tragedies like this. They take periodical fitness tests for a reason - it's a mentally and physically demanding occupation.

The rest of your statement is completely unevidenced - at no point did Donald Trump tell anyone to storm the Capitol building and overturn the election. We've been through this during the second impeachment.

Jayro · Aug 1, 2021

JonhathonBaxster said:
I'm having a hard time seeing why I should care about a mostly peaceful protest that resulted in a few hundred people breaking off from the main hundreds of thousands to trespass and harass lawmakers in a building that they left standing when the Left won't even acknowledge that their tens of thousands of riots that took place in which people were murdered, buildings looted and burnt to the ground were uncalled for. One single incident pales in comparison to the tens of thousands from the "other side". Saying a single incident is worse than tens of thousands reminds me of ...

There's a big difference between us not wanting to be killed in the streets unarmed by police, and your candidate losing an election. You may remove your head from your ass now.

Xzi · Aug 1, 2021

Foxi4 said:
That paints the impression that 4-5 people were killed during the riot, which is not the case - one person was killed.

Certainly not for lack of trying given the pipe bombs and weapons caches that were found, the noose that was hung outside, and the various restraints carried by the insurrectionist mob. Thankfully the terrorists were mostly incompetent this time.

Foxi4 · Aug 1, 2021

Xzi said:
Certainly not for lack of trying given the pipe bombs and weapons caches that were found, the noose that was hung outside, and the various restraints carried by the insurrectionist mob. Thankfully the terrorists were mostly incompetent this time.

I'm a libertarian. My position has always been that there should be gallows in front of Congress 24/7 - not necessarily to hang anyone, but just to keep them honest.

Xzi · Aug 1, 2021

Foxi4 said:
I'm a libertarian. My position has always been that there should be gallows in front of Congress 24/7 - not necessarily to hang anyone, but just to keep them honest.

Lol maybe so, but hanging a noose on that specific day was a specific threat made over the results of the election. The mob demonstrated definitively that conservatives no longer respect democracy.

Foxi4 · Aug 1, 2021

Xzi said:
Lol maybe so, but hanging a noose on that specific day was a specific threat made over the results of the election. The mob demonstrated definitively that conservatives no longer respect democracy.

It sure is an interesting insurrection when the insurrectionist are let in by the officer at the door, not one shot is fired inside the building (besides the one that killed Ashli) and the mob disperses politely before curfew. Sounds more like an unguided tour of the building, but who am I to judge.

Deleted member 559230 · Aug 1, 2021

Jayro said:
There's a big difference between us not wanting to be killed in the streets unarmed by police, and your candidate losing an election. You may remove your head from your ass now.

You simply claim your reason for protesting is valid while the other sides isn't. I am an adult and see both sides have their own reasons and both are executing their constitutional rights. I may not agree with either reason (BLM or Trump), but I'm not going to try to justify one cause over the other when both are valid reasons to protest. We have the right to protest regardless if you agree with the reasoning behind it.

Now that doesn't mean we have the right to riot as I see the left gets protesting and rioting confused a lot. People being attacked and killed, minority owned businesses and government agencies buildings burnt to the ground, the trespassing, vandalism, looting, arson, etc ... all of that was uncalled for and is not protesting. I just don't easily dismiss one side over the other because I personally agree with their reasoning. Personally I think both reasons are fucking stupid.

I'm just having a hard time seeing how your side can simply dismiss all of their illegal activity and then claim the shit on the 6th was worse when 1 single occurrence can't compare to the thousands of instances coming from your side.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Foxi4 said:
It sure is an interesting insurrection when the insurrectionist are let in by the officer at the door, not one shot is fired inside the building (besides the one that killed Ashli) and the mob disperses politely before curfew. Sounds more like an unguided tour of the building, but who am I to judge.

The riot on the 6th pales in comparison to the thousands of instances of crime that BLM and Antifa caused throughout the last two years. On one hand you have a bunch of rowdy people who were trespassing, talking shit, taking selfies, some small theft happened and one single person was shot. On the other hand you have the thousands of instances of violence, including murder, arson, theft, trespassing, destruction of property, looting, etc ... from the left. Sorry, but thousands of instances is way worse then a single one. Now, I'm not saying I agree with the riot on the 6th, which I don't, but I condemn both sides for rioting and the rioting from the left was way worse then the single riot from the right.

Then to top it off the left claims that Trump instructed the rioters to riot, which is a complete fabrication. Trump did invite anyone who wanted to come protest to the Capitol, but that's the extent of it. He never encouraged lawlessness and once the 300-400 people out of the 100,000 broke off and started to riot he condemned their actions and told everyone, including the 100,000+ peaceful protesters to "go home".

The left really lives with their heads up their own asses. I believe they all suffer from some condition where they are cut off from reality (or they just lie so much they believe themselves).

Xzi · Aug 1, 2021

Foxi4 said:
It sure is an interesting insurrection when the insurrectionist are let in by the officer at the door, not one shot is fired inside the building (besides the one that killed Ashli) and the mob disperses politely before curfew. Sounds more like an unguided tour of the building, but who am I to judge.

Again, nobody claimed that the mob had an overabundance of competence or a long-term plan for keeping Joe Biden from being inaugurated. They were high on adrenaline from all the rage jockey Republicans screaming "FIGHT" at them earlier in the day, and they probably assumed Trump would do something for them other than watch on TV.

Jayro · Aug 1, 2021

JonhathonBaxster said:
You simply claim your reason for protesting is valid while the other sides isn't. I am an adult and see both sides have their own reasons and both are executing their constitutional rights. I may not agree with either reason (BLM or Trump), but I'm not going to try to justify one cause over the other when both are valid reasons to protest. We have the right to protest regardless if you agree with the reasoning behind it.

Now that doesn't mean we have the right to riot as I see the left gets protesting and rioting confused a lot. People being attacked and killed, minority owned businesses and government agencies buildings burnt to the ground, the trespassing, vandalism, looting, arson, etc ... all of that was uncalled for and is not protesting. I just don't easily dismiss one side over the other because I personally agree with their reasoning. Personally I think both reasons are fucking stupid.

I'm just having a hard time seeing how your side can simply dismiss all of their illegal activity and then claim the shit on the 6th was worse when 1 single occurrence can't compare to the thousands of instances coming from your side.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

The riot on the 6th pales in comparison to the thousands of instances of crime that BLM and Antifa caused throughout the last two years. On one hand you have a bunch of rowdy people who were trespassing, talking shit, taking selfies, some small theft happened and one single person was shot. On the other hand you have the thousands of instances of violence, including murder, arson, theft, trespassing, destruction of property, looting, etc ... from the left. Sorry, but thousands of instances is way worse then a single one. Now, I'm not saying I agree with the riot on the 6th, which I don't, but I condemn both sides for rioting and the rioting from the left was way worse then the single riot from the right.

Then to top it off the left claims that Trump instructed the rioters to riot, which is a complete fabrication. Trump did invite anyone who wanted to come protest to the Capitol, but that's the extent of it. He never encouraged lawlessness and once the 300-400 people out of the 100,000 broke off and started to riot he condemned their actions and told everyone, including the 100,000+ peaceful protesters to "go home".

The left really lives with their heads up their own asses. I believe they all suffer from some condition where they are cut off from reality (or they just lie so much they believe themselves).

We're done talking, as it just falls on deaf ears, and nothing changes. That's why we burn shit down until we get your attention and things actually change for the better. Basic Human rights are not political.

Deleted member 559230 · Aug 1, 2021

Jayro said:
We're done talking, as it just falls on deaf ears, and nothing changes. That's why we burn shit down until we get your attention and things actually change for the better. Basic Human rights are not political.

Human rights? You mean the right of the drug addict women abusing criminal that tried passing off fake cash and then died due to being under the influence of deadly drugs while restrained for resisting arrest? Yeah, right. Floyd got what he asked for in the end. He deserved every last ounce of what happened to him. If he wouldn't have been doing deadly drugs, driving while under the influence, trying to pass off fake cash and resisted arrest he'd probably still be alive right now. His bad choices are why he's dead.

Foxi4 · Aug 1, 2021

Xzi said:
Again, nobody claimed that the mob had an overabundance of competence or a long-term plan for keeping Joe Biden from being inaugurated. They were high on adrenaline from all the rage jockey Republicans screaming "FIGHT" at them earlier in the day, and they probably assumed Trump would do something for them other than watch on TV.

If this was an actual attempt at an insurrection, there would be no Capitol building anymore. That's all there is to it. There was a handful of violent protesters who showed up there to cause trouble, the remainder stayed outside or got inside briefly out of plain curiosity. I can recognise an IRL shitpost when I look at one - a crowd that size could not be stopped if they put their mind to something.

Deleted member 559230 · Aug 1, 2021

Foxi4 said:
If this was an actual attempt at an insurrection, there would be no Capitol building anymore. That's all there is to it. There was a handful of violent protesters who showed up there to cause trouble, the remainder stayed outside or got inside briefly out of plain curiosity. I can recognise an IRL shitpost when I look at one - a crowd that size could not be stopped if they put their mind to something.

What you didn't see in the liberal media was the 100,000+ other people in the capitol. All they reported on was the 300-400 people that broke off from the main group and started to riot. If per say, the entire 100,000 were to be in an actual insurrection there would be no building standing and most of Congress would be dead. However, it was only a fraction of the total that went to riot .. again, the leftist media completely leaves out the other 100,000+ peaceful protesters.

Foxi4 · Aug 1, 2021

JonhathonBaxster said:
What you didn't see in the liberal media was the 100,000+ other people in the capitol. All they reported on was the 300-400 people that broke off from the main group and started to riot. If per say, the entire 100,000 were to be in an actual insurrection there would be no building standing and most of Congress would be dead. However, it was only a fraction of the total that went to riot .. again, the leftist media completely leaves out the other 100,000+ peaceful protesters.

It was a huge event, yes, and a fraction of people there got the boneheaded idea to enter the Capitol. The ones who broke the law or engaged in violence should be prosecuted and put in prison, other than that, I struggle to care.

Jayro · Aug 1, 2021

JonhathonBaxster said:
Human rights? You mean the right of the drug addict women abusing criminal that tried passing off fake cash and then died due to being under the influence of deadly drugs while restrained for resisting arrest? Yeah, right. Floyd got what he asked for in the end. He deserved every last ounce of what happened to him. If he wouldn't have been doing deadly drugs, driving while under the influence, trying to pass off fake cash and resisted arrest he'd probably still be alive right now. His bad choices are why he's dead.

Wow, none of what you said was true. But thanks for confirming that you're human trash.

(It was proven in a court of law, as well as on video, that George died from Derek being on his neck. But you don't seem like the type of person that cares about proven facts...)

Deleted member 559230 · Aug 1, 2021

Jayro said:
Wow, none of what you said was true. But thanks for confirming that you're human trash.

(It was proven in a court of law, as well as on video, that George died from Derek being on his neck. But you don't seem like the type of person that cares about proven facts...)

The bad cop did indeed kill him, but his choices before and during the arrest are what lead him to his own demise. He was already complaining about not being able to breathe before he was restrained for resisting arrest and he did just try to pass off fake cash and was high on deadly substances. The cop killing him was simply the end of a wrong path he decided to take.

His death was no big loss for society. I wonder what the women who he abused think of it.

I'd advise young people to not take the path he did in life, but we see how stupid young people are with wanting to keep trying things that have failed and they don't listen to people with experience so we may yet see more people die from the bad choices they make. Take deadly drugs, win deadly prizes.

Xzi · Aug 1, 2021

Foxi4 said:
If this was an actual attempt at an insurrection, there would be no Capitol building anymore. That's all there is to it.

Rubbish, they did as much damage as they possibly could with what little they could sneak past security. A large mob of yokels was never any real threat to the National Guard, and the only reason they weren't forced off the property sooner is because Trump procrastinated in giving that order.

Foxi4 · Aug 1, 2021

Xzi said:
Rubbish, they did as much damage as they possibly could with what little they could sneak past security. A large mob of yokels was never any real threat to the National Guard, and the only reason they weren't forced off the property sooner is because Trump procrastinated in giving that order.

What National Guard? The guard that showed up late, effectively after the fact? The Capitol Police did not invite the National Guard until after the Capitol was breached, and they don't just "show up" - that's not their job. There would've been precisely jack sh*t they could do if an armed mob of a couple hundred people felt like barricading themselves inside the building and having an actual stand-off. Even more so if the tens of thousands of protestors that were there were all like-minded and wanted to pick a fight, which they obviously weren't and obviously didn't. To me this is clear as day - aside from a small handful of looneys thinking they're Yosemite Sam, there was never any plan to "overtake" anything and no "insurrection" - it was a protest that turned into a riot, like many protests before, and a small group of people seized the opportunity to get inside because *they opened the door* for them, so why wouldn't they? Unguided tour of the Capitol is a far more apt description of what actually happened. The whole area is monitored by snipers 24/7 - clearly the security detail didn't think the "insurrectionist" were dangerous enough to open fire on them.

Trump does not have the power to deploy the D.C. Guard on Capitol grounds per se - the process is far more complicated than that. Their presence was requested by Mayor Bowser, that request had to go to the Pentagon for approval because DC is not a state, so it falls under the purview of the Defense Department. Any requests are approved by the Army Secretary (at the time McCarthy) to whom this power is delegated by the President and the Secretary of Defense and *then* finally the guard can show up, but *only* when invited by the Capitol Police because the Capitol grounds are controlled by a specific set of rules. The request for 340 troops was approved, but the Capitol Police did not invite the guard until late Wednesday, so guess what? They weren't there, because they weren't requested to be there. They're not the president's personal posse that just shows up whenever and wherever the president wants them to - quite the opposite, I don't know where you get this weird idea that it's Trump's fault somehow. They *report* solely to the President, but the power to activate them is delegated to the Secretary of Defense, and then further delegated to the Secretary of the Army. It's the only unit of the National Guard that works like this.

The D.C National Guard was formed in 1802 by President Thomas Jefferson to defend the newly created District of Columbia. As such, the Commanding General of the D.C. National Guard is subordinate solely to the President of the United States. This authority to activate the D.C. National Guard has been delegated, by the President, to the Secretary of Defense and further delegated to the Secretary of the Army. The D.C. National Guard is the only National Guard unit, out of all of the 54 states and territories, which reports only to the President.

https://dc.ng.mil/About-Us/

Xzi · Aug 1, 2021

Foxi4 said:
What National Guard? The guard that showed up late, effectively after the fact?

Yes that's what I said. They were called in late because Trump enjoyed what he was seeing.

Foxi4 said:
a small group of people seized the opportunity to get inside because *they opened the door* for them, so why wouldn't they?

Some of the capitol police being on the insurrectionists' side here does not excuse anyone's behavior, it only further demonstrates the need for thorough investigation into the day's events.

Foxi4 said:
Unguided tour of the Capitol is a far more apt description of what actually happened.

Angry rednecks tried to prevent the peaceful transition of power, unsuccessfully. That's an entirely apt description of what actually happened. If I'm adding more detail, it was mostly on behalf of the then-president himself, who gave a rousing speech in favor of violence prior to the day's festivities.

Foxi4 said:
They're not the president's personal posse that just shows up whenever and wherever the president wants them to - quite the opposite, I don't know where you get this weird idea that it's Trump's fault somehow.

It's a matter of record that Pence and several other people called Trump directly and begged him to deploy the National Guard that day. He obviously had that authority.

Hearings about January 6 capital

Storywriter

Well-Known Member

Endless Trash

MediCat USB Dev

Time to fly, 621

Endless Trash

Time to fly, 621

Endless Trash

Well-Known Member

Time to fly, 621

MediCat USB Dev

Well-Known Member

Endless Trash

Well-Known Member

Endless Trash

MediCat USB Dev

Well-Known Member

Time to fly, 621

Endless Trash

Time to fly, 621

Similar threads

Popular threads in this forum