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California Court SHUTS DOWN Transgender Pronoun Law

tabzer

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I would like to point out that this tangent started when Goku1992A said, "At some point heterosexuality is a vital necessity." Which is when Seliph objected and said not really. Seliph is absolutely correct to say not really as, heterosexuality is defined as "The quality or characteristic of being sexually attracted solely to people of the opposite sex." Note how no part of the definition describes procreation. A sperm and an egg are needed for procreation, but no one has to be straight for that to happen.

Biologically speaking, the heterosexual sperm is attracted to the heterosexual egg. Or maybe the egg just snatches it with its tentacles.

You need a female and a male to make babies. That's hetero. That's sex. That's heterosex-uality.


this is still a method for gay couples to have their own kids

Lol, it's a method for gay couples to have someone else's kids. If they want to program a genome and pretend that there is no sexuality involved, then they are still kidding themselves.
 

MikaDubbz

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Biologically speaking, the heterosexual sperm is attracted to the heterosexual egg. Or maybe the egg just snatches it with its tentacles.

You need a female and a male to make babies. That's hetero. That's sex. That's heterosex-uality.

lol you're really trying your best not to be wrong here. You know exactly the point being made here, heterosexuality is by definition: "The quality or characteristic of being sexually attracted solely to people of the opposite sex." So this thought that "At some point heterosexuality is a vital necessity." Is straight up wrong no matter how hard you try and change that narrative. What you want Goku1992A to have started with was "At some point a sperm fertilizing an egg is a vital necessity." But that simply is not what he said.
 
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Seliph

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Biologically speaking, the heterosexual sperm is attracted to the heterosexual egg. Or maybe the egg just snatches it with its tentacles.

You need a female and a male to make babies. That's hetero. That's sex. That's heterosex-uality.




Lol, it's a method for gay couples to have someone else's kids. If they want to program a genome and pretend that there is no sexuality involved, then they are still kidding themselves.
At the end of the day, this really doesn't matter. None of this debate actually matters in real life. I'm still a lesbian if me and my girlfriend have a surrogate baby, and we would still always consider it definitely our kid. Surrogacy laws would legally make the child our kid. I don't care if the baby has a little bit of someone else's DNA, it is still our kid and I am still having gay sex with my girlfriend and neither of us is having any sexual contact with our surrogate. It will always be our kid and we will always be gay.
 
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tabzer

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lol you're really trying your best not to be wrong here. You know exactly the point being made here, heterosexuality is by definition: "The quality or characteristic of being sexually attracted solely to people of the opposite sex." So this thought that "At some point heterosexuality is a vital necessity." Is straight up wrong no matter how hard you try and change that narrative. What you want Goku1992A to have started with was "At some point a sperm fertilizing an egg is a vital necessity." But that simply is not what he said.


Someone made the point that heteroesexuality is necessary for homosexual people to exist. They aren't wrong. There is no narrative of homosexual people reproducing without the hetero being a factor.
 
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MikaDubbz

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Someone made the point that heteroesexuality is necessary for homosexual people to exist. They aren't wrong. There is no narrative of homosexual people reproducing.

Doesn't really matter to the point at hand. My point remains unchanged, if everyone went gay in the entire world, we could still procreate and create more gay babies who would grow up and procreate in the same way. Heterosexuality isn't needed anymore. Obviously it's not going anywhere, but we've long surpassed the point where, if heterosexuality somehow just disappeared entirely that humanity could no longer continue on with new generations.

Frankly what we should most fear in this regard is everyone suddenly becoming asexual lol.
 
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tabzer

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Doesn't really matter to the point at hand. My point remains unchanged, if everyone went gay in the entire world, we could still procreate and create more gay babies who would grow up and procreate in the same way. Heterosexuality isn't needed anymore. Obviously it's not going anywhere, but we've long surpassed the point where, if heterosexuality somehow just disappeared entirely that humanity could no longer continue on with new generations.

Okay, so that is your fantasy. My point is that it deters from reality.

To entertain prospects of the future, you can probably be sure that there will be heterosexual and homosexual narratives in play when it comes to genome fabrication.
 

MikaDubbz

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Okay, so that is your fantasy. My point is that it deters from reality.

To entertain prospects of the future, you can probably be sure that there will be heterosexual and homosexual narratives in play when it comes to genome fabrication.

Dude, how did you not get that we were talking about this all on a philosophical level? Obviously I'm not sitting here saying heterosexuality is dying out, but we'll be OK when we all go gay because of technology. Like how stupid do you think I am? I thought we were clearly talking on a philosophical level, we have reached a point where feasibly we theoretically could all be gay and humanity would live on, that's true no matter how you slice it. Whether or not you want to acknowledge that truth is up to you I guess, it seems like just the thought scares you somehow?

Again though, if you wanna be scared by such a thought, concern yourself with the reality of us all suddenly becoming asexual. Oh but don't get too lost in that thought, I wouldn't want you believing I think that's actually about to happen.
 

tabzer

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Dude, how did you not get that we were talking about this all on a philosophical level? Obviously I'm not sitting here saying heterosexuality is dying out, but we'll be OK when we all go gay because of technology. Like how stupid do you think I am? I thought we were clearly talking on a philosophical level, we have reached a point where feasibly we theoretically could all be gay and humanity would live on, that's true no matter how you slice it. Whether or not you want to acknowledge that truth is up to you I guess, it seems like just the thought scares you somehow?

Again though, if you wanna be scared by such a thought, concern yourself with the reality of us all suddenly becoming asexual. Oh but don't get too lost in that thought, I wouldn't want you believing I think that's actually about to happen.

Philosophically speaking, the sperm and the egg, both being an aspect of the people, are attracted to each other. Heterosexuality is inherent to all sexed people. Being scared about it has nothing to do with it as far as I am concerned.
 

MikaDubbz

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Philosophically speaking, the sperm and the egg, both being an aspect of the people, are attracted to each other. Heterosexuality is inherent to all sexed people. Being scared about it has nothing to do with it as far as I am concerned.
lol wow, I don't think I can with you anymore. You can't even acknowledge that I've made a genuine point and you kinda didn't have a great argument yourself. Whatever, I'm done, this has been exhausting and now you've just taken like 3 steps back.
 

tabzer

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lol wow, I don't think I can with you anymore. You can't even acknowledge that I've made a genuine point and you kinda didn't have a great argument yourself. Whatever, I'm done, this has been exhausting and now you've just taken like 3 steps back.
You have made useless points that nobody can use. Dreams will be dreams...
 

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And there we go with stupid transphobic peeps believing that spermatozoids and eggs have sexual preferences. Way to go, it's roughly on the same level as believing that fleas will magically pop out of existence from your cat's insides with no previous contact or anything at all.
Between that and the one who firmly believes that fashion has an actual biological function when it clearly does not, seeing as it goes on and off between gender attribution every few centuries in most cultures, this thread is great, I'll give you that. A great show of denial and stupidity from people who go every now and again "I'm not X but (...)", which in most cases indicate that you are, indeed, X (where X can be anything from transphobic or racist or whatever to antivax or flat-earther)
 

duwen

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There are certain pronouns that you just can't go wrong with... I'm particularly fond of "Twat".

respecting trans people drastically reduces mental stress on them
...this is one of the most ridiculous things I've read in this thread - it implies trans people require more respect than 'normies'. Surely ALL people deserve respect and have less mental stress when they receive it, no?
 

BeniBel

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Society really is hurting people with gender dysphoria. As a psychologist I've seen dozen of people suffering this condition. Surgery often had the worst outcome, as it results in dissociative disorders with suicide as a potential outcome.
Motivating them to express their surpressed feelings often results in depression and the feeling of not fitting in. The not fitting in is not related to bullying or not being accepted, but to the emotion of being different.
But for those who tried to embrace their biological gender, those were the once actually finding mental balance.

Life isn't always pretty and easy. It's hard and dreams rarely come true. We need to stop trying to change others in an atempt to satisfy our own view of reality. You're a biological male wanting to go out as a female? Go right ahead, but do not expect every single person out there to play along. Just be glad that you're actually able and allowed to express yourself that way. In a lot of countries, that same action would result in prison or worse.
 
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tabzer

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And there we go with stupid transphobic peeps believing that spermatozoids and eggs have sexual preferences. Way to go, it's roughly on the same level as believing that fleas will magically pop out of existence from your cat's insides with no previous contact or anything at all.
Between that and the one who firmly believes that fashion has an actual biological function when it clearly does not, seeing as it goes on and off between gender attribution every few centuries in most cultures, this thread is great, I'll give you that. A great show of denial and stupidity from people who go every now and again "I'm not X but (...)", which in most cases indicate that you are, indeed, X (where X can be anything from transphobic or racist or whatever to antivax or flat-earther)


Oh look. You are making a reference to me without quoting me. Kind of cowardly. Anyway.

I'm not transphobic.

Also, sperm and eggs function sexually (hetero; definitely not homo), regardless of how the hosts estimates their fee fees.

Do fleas exist on your cat's insides?

Fashion functions as a sexual expression, People, being sexual, choose their fashion according to their sexuality and how they estimate the attention it will attract. If you have no sex, you will have no fashion. Even attempts to be androgynous is still a nod to the existences of gender expression.
 

Foxi4

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This case has nothing to do with sex, gender, gametes, chromosomes, fashion or any of the assorted guff - it has to do with compelled speech. You may very well have a preferred pronoun and you may request that other people refer to you using said preferred pronoun, but ultimately how people call you is not up to you, it's up to them. In the United States the state is legally prohibited from compelling speech on the basis of the first amendment which protects the right to free speech *as well as* the right not to speak in a given manner. If someone wants to refer to you as a "he" or a "she", that's their right, even if you consider this classification to be incorrect - you can't coerce them to do otherwise. If they're doing it on purpose to cause you grief, they're being an asshole, but that's not illegal. If you don't like this kind of communication, you should remove yourself from the situation and exercise your freedom of association by not associating yourself with people who are assholes to you. If said person refuses to leave you alone, there are anti-harassment laws on the books already - get a restraining order, stalking is illegal. You already have all the power in this scenario and are adequately protected, I see no reason to use the long, strong arm of the government to force people to speak a certain way that you subjectively find agreeable.
 

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What are ya'll talking about? There is gendered specific clothing that's not based on society social norms.

Bras exist
 
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Lacius

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Nothing arbitrary about biology or the fashion that evolved to suit that biology. Gendered behaviors evolved as they did due to practicality and necessity, sure a lot of it is trivial in a post technological society but these behaviors are ingrained in humans.

You don't have to go any further than the grocery store to see men and women still engaging in hunter/gathered activity, guys grabbing what they need and GTFO, women pushing around a empty basket blocking their gathering spot.

When I kick their basket out of the way it's common for me to return the dirty look with "move it berry picker, daddys hunting."
Dresses, makeup, pink colors, etc. are all arbitrary and aren't even close to consistent across cultures and time periods. There's no biological link to these things.

About 9,000 years ago in the Americas, approximately 50% of big game hunters were female. Even back then, what you consider to be typical gender roles were societal constructs.
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/45/eabd0310

Your grocery store example only demonstrates two things:
  1. You have in your head gender roles that are, once again, arbitrary. Plenty of men take their time at the grocery store, and plenty of women grab what they need and "GTFO." In plenty of heterosexual relationships, the man is the only one who goes to the grocery store.
  2. By bragging about kicking a woman's basket away and only responding with a dirty look, you're showing us you behave like an asshole. We are an enlightened social species, and we've been a social species for a long time, so I can't say you would have even been welcome or conducive to well-being if we sent you back in time 9,000 years. A world where men were unnecessarily rude to other humans generally didn't exist, and rudeness isn't a genetic trait innate to cis males.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

This case has nothing to do with sex, gender, gametes, chromosomes, fashion or any of the assorted guff - it has to do with compelled speech. You may very well have a preferred pronoun and you may request that other people refer to you using said preferred pronoun, but ultimately how people call you is not up to you, it's up to them. In the United States the state is legally prohibited from compelling speech on the basis of the first amendment which protects the right to free speech *as well as* the right not to speak in a given manner. If someone wants to refer to you as a "he" or a "she", that's their right, even if you consider this classification to be incorrect - you can't coerce them to do otherwise. If they're doing it on purpose to cause you grief, they're being an asshole, but that's not illegal. If you don't like this kind of communication, you should remove yourself from the situation and exercise your freedom of association by not associating yourself with people who are assholes to you. If said person refuses to leave you alone, there are anti-harassment laws on the books already - get a restraining order, stalking is illegal. You already have all the power in this scenario and are adequately protected, I see no reason to use the long, strong arm of the government to force people to speak a certain way that you subjectively find agreeable.
The issue is nursing home residents often can't "remove themselves from the situation" very easily. At the very least, I think you'd agree that there needs to be a mandate that nursing homes take a position on whether or not misgendering will be allow in their facilities and make that information overtly public. That way, elderly trans patients can make an informed decision before it's too late.
 

jimbo13

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Dresses, makeup, pink colors, etc. are all arbitrary and aren't even close to consistent across cultures and time periods. There's no biological link to these things.

About 9,000 years ago in the Americas, approximately 50% of big game hunters were female. Even back then, what you consider to be typical gender roles were societal constructs.
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/45/eabd0310

Your grocery store example only demonstrates two things:
  1. You have in your head gender roles that are, once again, arbitrary. Plenty of men take their time at the grocery store, and plenty of women grab what they need and "GTFO." In plenty of heterosexual relationships, the man is the only one who goes to the grocery store.
  2. By bragging about kicking a woman's basket away and only responding with a dirty look, you're showing us you behave like an asshole. We are an enlightened social species, and we've been a social species for a long time, so I can't say you would have even been welcome or conducive to well-being if we sent you back in time 9,000 years. A world where men were unnecessarily rude to other humans generally didn't exist, and rudeness isn't a genetic trait innate to cis males.


You can save the nonsense feminist revisionist science, Gender roles evolved as they did out of necessity same with the what they chose to wear.

Same bullshit as making a movie of how black women were responsible for NASA.
 

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