Persona 4 and the benefits of imperfect representation

In recent years, proper representation for LGBT characters has become an increasingly hot topic amongst gamers. There's a dearth of gay characters in gaming, which has naturally led to a lot of demand for more representation. While that's admirable, I feel the fervor for gay representation can sometimes be reductive to the nuances in sexuality. Case in point: Kanji Tatsumi, a gay character who's been denounced recently by certain parts of the Persona fandom for being noncommittal in his role as a gay representative for the series.

Persona 4 is about helping people deal with their repressed emotions. Each dungeon is a physical manifestation of somebody's psyche, and the boss will be their Shadow, a distorted version of how they view the parts of themselves they can’t accept. Kanji’s dungeon is a men’s bathhouse; his Shadow is a lispy, flirtatious man running around in a towel. The message seems fairly obvious: Kanji is a closeted homosexual. But things aren’t as cut and dry as that.

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I think this is where a lot of people’s issues with Kanji’s story come from. It feels a little like queerbaiting—teasing a queer character early on to get the attention of fans desperate for LGBT representation, only to backpedal later and say “Don’t worry guys, he’s not really gay!” I understand the frustration at that, but I think dismissing Kanji as a bad LGBT character simply because of it does a massive disservice to the story he tells about the complexity of sexuality.

Kanji’s family owns a textile shop, which leads to Kanji developing a knack for knitting and sewing at a young age. He gets mocked for being too girly and becomes isolated from the world, as both sexes mock a man with such feminine interests. Partially to reaffirm his masculinity and partially to solidify the wedge between him and the world that rejected him, Kanji adopts an overly tough and brutish persona, replacing people’s contempt for him with fear. But that insecurity over his lack of masculinity stays embedded, and possibly manifests as his confused sexuality.

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We first see Kanji’s attraction to men when he meets Naoto Shirogane, a woman who’s presenting as a man at the time. (Whether or not Naoto is another example of queerbaiting is a whole other can of worms I won’t get into.) After discovering she’s a woman, he continues being attracted to her. Of course, the root of his attraction to Naoto is that she’s one of the few people to accept him and make him feel valued or safe. But it leaves the question of his orientation murkier, leading to cries of noncommittal representation being lobbied against the game.

It’s important to note, however, that just because Kanji’s only love interest is female, that doesn’t stop him from being a queer character. Nothing definitive is ever stated about Kanji’s sexuality, and more crucially, Kanji seems just as fervent for answers as his fans. For example, when the prospect of Naoto entering a beauty pageant comes up, putting her in a position where she would dress more traditionally feminine than she does otherwise, Kanji begs her to do so as his ”doubts will finally be cleared."

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The idea of not understanding your own sexuality may seem alien to some people—whether you’re straight or gay or anywhere in between, you just like what you like, right?—but the complexity and range of feelings present can be hard to navigate as a teenager, especially for those who have had self-doubt instilled in them from isolating experiences as a youth. Your natural instinct is to cling to labels, these safe harbors of identity that define the people around you, who seem so much more secure than you. As helpful as labels are as shorthands for communicating, they're not always the most robust at nailing down one's feelings.

Personally speaking, I consider myself mostly straight, as I’m attracted to women but have always had a slight attraction to men since I hit puberty. As silly as it sounds now, the underwhelming nature of that attraction drove me crazy as a kid, as it left me without a comfortable label and identity. Girls caught my attention everywhere I went, yet I couldn’t help but notice—and appreciate—men with some degree of regularity. I didn’t think I was gay, but those pesky thoughts reminded me I wasn’t totally straight either. My conception of bisexuality at the time was that it was a purely equal, balanced attraction to either sex, so I couldn’t find any sense of identity there either. I would try to force thoughts into my head, to cut out the unwelcome ones and force myself to be either gay or straight. I didn’t care which one; I just wanted to know where I belonged.

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This led to panic and rumination over my sexuality. I’d heard stories of men who wouldn’t come out of the closet until middle age, sometimes having a wife and kids, so I worried that I was gay and would waste much of my life in the closet. Maybe I was gay and I was just trying to suppress my feelings after growing up in a household with four older brothers who were constantly hurling gay jokes, usually at me. Or maybe I was straight and the vague attraction to men was implanted in me from internalizing those jokes. Maybe I was straight and was simply so desperate for acceptance and love that I’d be willing to settle for a man. I realize these ideas are ridiculous, but without any grounding sense of identity back then, I was floundering to simply understand who I was. After all, I’d never seen anyone going through what I was going through, so I must have been the only one. It must just be a problem with my screwy head.

I wish there was a more narratively satisfying conclusion to this story, but after a few years of this, more pressing concerns came up and I simply decided that I was happy to call myself straight and live that way, but to keep my mind open if the opportunity to explore those feelings ever arose. I’d be lying if I said I still didn’t have some lingering frustration at the lack of consistency in my sexuality, but I’m still taking things one day at a time.

I can’t help but wonder, however, if seeing a story like Kanji’s would have helped me back then. Some simple reassurance that things aren’t as easy for everyone as they seem sometimes. Something to let me know it’s okay to not understand yourself, as long as you can accept the answers you find in your own time. I realize there's another side to this coin, that there are gay gamers out there who needed to see someone like Kanji fully embrace his homosexuality and be out and proud, and I empathize with how hard it would be to see him heel turn and, conveniently, unknowingly be attracted to a woman the entire time. Regardless, I think the backlash to his story is a bit overblown, and even reductive to the case for LGBT representation. Sure, I'd love to see a fully out Persona character someday, but to pretend that Kanji doesn't represent the LGBT community is to ignore the huge, complex spectrum of sexuality that’s out there.
 

Seliph

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Sexuality is always fluid,? no is not
I know you don't have sex so this might be a bit hard for you to understand, but it is. Certainly you may almost exclusively prefer men or women but if you actually explore your sexuality you'll find that it is broader than that. Again, Greece is a great example of this. You can find many different societies and cultures where people just love who they want to, regardless of gender. I think this is proof enough that everyone has some sort of capacity for homosexuality, whether or not you wish to repress it is your choice and is greatly affected by what society/social groups you grow up in based on how different societies perceive sexuality.
 
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tabzer

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That’s a weird way of saying that they presented gay men as extremely predatory with rapey undertones, a harmful stereotype people need to move away from

Yeah, those guys were creepy. Watching the scene didn't make my mind wander towards,"this is how all gay couples are". Viewer discretion is advised? I'm personally not a fan for the censorship, but it is what it is.

Maybe the lesson we can learn from this is that we are all a little bit gay. Sexuality is always fluid, never rigid. I think we could learn a lot from the Greeks in this regard.


Or even the frogs.

My sexuality is sometimes rigid.
 
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Pluupy

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Kanji isn't actually gay. He's struggling with things he likes not being typical for men. Everyone experiences this when they're young because of gender norms being pressured onto children. People need to stop pressuring children into heterosexual norms, but people also need to stop pressuring children into homosexual thinking. Let people be people.
 

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What's with people looking for accurate representation? These are works of fiction, nothing more, nothing less. If you don't like the characters or story, feel free to make your own but don't tell creative people how to do things the way you like
It's pretty normal for people to want to see gay characters in fiction. Just like how some people want to see gore, sex and many other things.
 
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Momosix

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I mean, if you're looking for representation and solidarity from fictional characters, you've got your own issues you need to work out. A character is a character first, and almost everything else comes second.

I've actually seen incredibly very few examples of a gay or trans character in fiction that I actually liked, because it wasn't their sole personality for one. And guess what all the examples I've seen have in common? None of them were made in America, or other English speaking countries. It's usually in foreign films they're able to pull off a decent job of it without going "woke" to the point of making hate the shitty LGBTQRSTUVZDGFHK+ movement than I already do.
Most people aren't asking for a character's sexuality to be their only focus. So that's just a strawman.
 
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Momosix

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Ugh, aw shit here we go again. Just stop LGBullshiT theories to these games, specially for persona series, that's why nobody takes those games (the smts easy mode) seriously anymore. Community can spoil a game so much..
It was the writers that were so heavy handed with Kanji's sexuality themselves. They didn't need to do that if they didn't want people to talk about it. Also, who are you to demand people not apply theories to fiction? You realize people have been applying theory to fiction for hundreds of years, right? With many other things besides LGBT stuff.
 
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Is almost like the person that wrote this did not actually play the game or something
Because the really mess up here

It kinda is an issue when it on the front page as fact this is not a opinion them

Next they gonna write Naoto is trans lol
The writers clearly made it look like Kanji was struggling with his sexuality, that was the build up. You're being disingenuous if you're saying otherwise. We know they copped out, but the sexualized scenes are still there for people to see.
 
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I just want to say that I love Persona 4 and Kanji as a character, and I don't think Kanji needed a ridged label after his arc. It's not that he needed to be officially gay or bi. Leaving him being ambiguous and questioning would be fine. The problem was that the whole build up was so heavy handed with implying that he's sexually confused, from feeling attracted to Naoto while thinking she was male, to his dungeon being a bathhouse with horny male voices in the background, to Kanji being stereotypically camp and claiming to enjoy the company of men while hating girls, begging for acceptance etc. Yet then, the rug is pulled from under the entire thing at the end, with Kanji flat out saying that it was never about attraction in the first place. That's bad storytelling, because it just comes out of nowhere and contradicts what we just saw, although I'm sure some desperate, pretentious people will try to pass it off as a clever subversion of gender norms (it wasn't). I also felt that the big revelation that Kanji is just a masculine guy who has some supposedly non masculine interests (sewing? Is that really all that feminine?) was a bit underwhelming. It's certainly less obvious than going with his sexual orientation as the main focus, I suppose, but a character struggling with their sexuality in a society that is often very homophobic is something that carries a lot more actual dramatic weight to it than....he liked sewing. Maybe there's some cultural difference. It's ironic that some people's need to HAVE to see anything LGBT related in fiction as some big political statement will lead them to inadvertently defend poor storytelling. I still enjoyed the whole thing though, and I don't hold it against the game, or even the creators. But I can acknowledge when something is clumsy.

Naoto's story on the other hand, is fine as it is. I suppose I can kind of see why some people could suspect it was going in the direction of being trans, but men and women disguising themselves as the opposite sex for one reason or another is extremely old, and has had nothing to do with actually wanting to be the opposite sex most of the time. She disguised herself as a male to get her detective work taken seriously in a male dominated field, and eventually accepting that she didn't need to masquerade as someone else to be taken seriously was a fitting conclusion.
 
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RichardTheKing

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(sewing? Is that super feminine?)
Historically, yes, it was. Throughout the ages, women were the ones who stayed home and made clothes, quilts, and other fabrics, whilst the men went hunting and defended their home (since, y'know, men tend to have superior bodily strength than women, and people back then knew it. Also, as much as I hate to say this, women are indeed more 'precious' than men because women can give birth to future generations, whereas men can't - if a lot of men died, the remaining men could still procreate with the women safe at home and the village can eventually recover; if a lot of women died, it's a lot harder to do so).

Anyway, since women were generally disincentivised from going out fighting, and there was often a need to repair clothes (and other fabrics) or create new ones, it was left to the women to do that. This, of course, gave sewing and knitting a stigma of being 'women's work', something men shouldn't have the time nor inclination to practice.

Nowadays, since we've long since moved on from those days, it really doesn't matter who does the sewing - but the stigma still persists in some form, and I'd think especially so in a small rural town like Inaba, where traditional values are a lot harder to dislodge.
 
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Momosix

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Historically, yes, it was. Throughout the ages, women were the ones who stayed home and made clothes, quilts, and other fabrics, whilst the men went hunting and defended their home (since, y'know, men tend to have superior bodily strength than women, and people back then knew it. Also, as much as I hate to say this, women are indeed more 'precious' than men because women can give birth to future generations, whereas men can't - if a lot of men died, the remaining men could still procreate with the women safe at home and the village can eventually recover; if a lot of women died, it's a lot harder to do so).

Anyway, since women were generally disincentivised from going out fighting, and there was often a need to repair clothes (and other fabrics) or create new ones, it was left to the women to do that. This, of course, gave sewing and knitting a stigma of being 'women's work', something men shouldn't have the time nor inclination to practice.

Nowadays, since we've long since moved on from those days, it really doesn't matter who does the sewing - but the stigma still persists in some form, and I'd think especially so in a small rural town like Inaba, where traditional values are a lot harder to dislodge.
I suppose the fact it was in a rural community does make sense.
 

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It was the writers that were so heavy handed with Kanji's sexuality themselves. They didn't need to do that if they didn't want people to talk about it. Also, who are you to demand people not apply theories to fiction? You realize people have been applying theory to fiction for hundreds of years, right? With many other things besides LGBT stuff.
What fierce guy that's a quintuple post! One after the other. I'm not against theories in games, read again. Now go back to resetera.
 

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