I'm confused. Are people defending China or defending communism?
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Seems to be a bit of both going on. Personally, I'm saying fuck both the CCP and Communism and I don't need to know specifics to know both are bad news.
Pointing out racism does not mean that I don't have criticism for the Chinese government.
I guess your confusion comes from black and white thinking.
Communism isn't necessarily as evil as people make out and certainly it can be less evil than capitalism.
Using racism because you disapprove of the CCP is kinda dumb, as you have become the bad guy.
It's the republicans who have double standards, for years they've demanded that the media overlook all of Trumps criminal activities & now they want a witch hunt against someone who isn't in government.
You either want people to be investigated or you don't & it can't be based on politics or it's double standards, so make up your mind.
Last edited by smf,
I wasn't talking about anything you said or talking about racism. This comment is oblivious and irrelevant.
This is a subject of interest. If communism does exist, is it enforceable or is it not? I've been involved in communes who tried to share everything, but a cultic hierarchy always emerges. Maybe you should demonstrate a working model before talking out of your ass.
If you are an "aficionado" of communism, then you should just donate everything and hope others follow suit, because otherwise, it's not a community, but a functioning romance between fascism and tyranny.
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You want a working model of communism then here you go.
Vietnam
Economic and political reforms have spurred rapid growth in Vietnam as 45 million people were lifted out of poverty from 2002-2018, according to The World Bank. The provision of basic services had improved in the past three decades and its GDP per capita has increased several times over.
Many manufacturers are relocating to Vietnam from China, leading to the creation of more jobs. Vietnamese officials are aiming to expand the economy by 7 percent this year.
Unlike other communist nations, Vietnam doesn't suffer from trade disputes, crippling sanctions or lack of investment.
Oh yeah, there is no oppression in Vietnam. (Not!)
It's almost as if you ignored everything I said and just handed over another example of my claim.
That's so dumb.
Evaluating communism from a capitalistic perspective with complete disregard to human rights. Like wtf are you on?
There economy is no longer communist for the most part, but right now the gov is trying to regain control of the economy.
But when they had a maoist economy prior to 1978 they were at their poorest. But once they opened up their economy to a more free market economy the countries wealth increase tenfold. Absolute poverty decreased from 41% of the population to 5% from 1978 to 2001. GDP increase 10 fold. Average wages increase 6 fold.
After switching to a free market economy China experienced one of the biggest economic booms.
Wealth gap increased. But people only focus on the negatives without looking at the overall picture. Back then everyone had more equal wages but everyone was equally poor when things were more centralized and state controlled. Reform happened to privatize more aspects of the economy and average wages increased, yet people only focus on the inevitable wage gap that happens without looking at the overall economic growth of the country and its people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_economic_reform
Last edited by SG854,
Vietnam doesn't have a working Comunist Economy right now. They had it prior 1986 and they were at their poorest.
But after 1986 they introduced a few political reforms called the Doi Moi. They switched from their old state controlled centralized economy to a more socialized oriented economy with an emphasis on the private enterprise and capitalism. Once they freed up those markets Vietnam become a very fast growing economy. You can't call it purely communist anymore.
A centralized gov will be horrible at accurately judging the economy. The ever changing supply and demand. Which is different from city to city and street to street. One street may having booming sales while another street over a few blocks down may have less sales for the exact same product. And it changes on a a weekly basis. So being able to properly allocate resources and adjust pricing to meet demand is nearly impossible for a few people in gov no matter how good of an economics degree you have.
So a gov far away in some room, detached from the thousands of individual stores, they can't accurately adjust prices to meet supply and demand. And as a middle man judge how much of a product to buy and sell depending on demand, for the thousands and thousands of stores in the country and keep that up on a daily basis. It's impossible for a single centralized gov.
Last edited by SG854,
I don't put any conditions on you before you talk out your ass. What makes you special? Other than cognitive bias.
And working for whom? Capitalism doesn't work for everyone.
There doesn't have to be a working model for communism either, democracy and capitalism is relatively new & yet we switched to it before there was a working model.
It seems you're stuck in one dimensional thinking.
I don't know how long it's going to take, but I don't see capitalism surviving. There is too much disparity between rich and poor and it's getting bigger, you can't keep pretending that rich people deserve to be rich and poor people deserve to be poor. There have been tipping points before and it's unwise not to learn from the past.
One of the ways to maintain capitalism would be to tax the rich and have the government spend on things that benefit the underclasses. As right wing people are against that because of egocentric bias
then unfortunately for them it will happen sooner than if they were more willing to pay tax.
Last edited by smf,
Not being able to own your own property. It gives gov the power to take away your home whenever they feel like. That's kinda what china does right now since you don't buy to own property. In China you can't own your own land, don't have full ownership of your own property and they take property whenever they feel like. You lease property from the gov but not own it. Which ties into Uyghur situation right now. Where there's mass genocide against them.
Or even foreigners or Chinese people that don't fall in line with the ccp they can just take your home whenever they feel like it. There were times when the ccp took away peoples farm lands and now they have no work & nothing anymore and live in a concrete box in some poor area.
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/restrictions-12172014152720.html
https://www.theartnewspaper.com/new...ultural-property-evidence-of-genocidal-intent
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56843368
People argue in a perfect communist senerio that wouldn't happen, and everyone will be equal, no big wage gap. But when has a perfect scenario of anything ever existed? Perfect capitalism never existed and will never exists since humans are imperfect. Perfect Communism never existed and will never exist either. It's all a pipe dream.
Last edited by SG854,
They can already do this. Of course they say they pay you for it, but as it's not sold on the open market they get to pick how much they pay you for it. Which can be below what you think it is worth.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/hs2-compulsory-purchase-general-vesting-declarations
It happens less in countries like the US because the amount of land is greater, so whether they pay you or not, it's almost not worth them bothering to take your home.
However if they were providing everyone with the same amount of land and same style of house elsewhere, then you would be at less of a disadvantage than the current system, where the amount of money they give you cannot guarantee the same benefits as you had before.
As long as the government were elected, then it's unlikely they would do anything too unpopular either. If everyone is equal then the government can't say "don't worry, we won't do this to you guys, it's just the poor" as everyone is in the same boat.
Last edited by smf,
you do know why people claim asylum don't you? one clear example is maybe a said ethnic group is being slaughtered by a ruthless fascist leader (it still happens even to this day) should the US just turn anti humanitarian?we've been humanitarian since our inception that's what makes us one of the best countries in the world, on the other hand security is important but as russia proved a few times you don't need to be in the said country to commit acts of terrorism
But the same thing would happen if China wasn't communist & the same people were running the country.
You don't need communism to have bad governments.
Dictatorships are possible with capitalism.
Last edited by smf,
The problem with a communist gov China has control over information and many things in peiples lives which makes fighting back harder. Lots of websites are banned, YouTube is banned. They have a better iron grip.
They can manipulate numbers more easily. Lots of protests happen in China but you don't hear about it much because of the ccps cotnrol.
Last edited by SG854,
If you are prepared to arrest and kill journalists and shut down companies that don't block things you don't like, then you can do that without switching to communism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censo...ere_access_to_YouTube_had_been_blocked_before
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Assassinated_journalists_by_nationality (you need to look at each case as not all the assassinations were by the state..)
Last edited by smf,
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