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Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

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Deleted member 559230

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Just because our ways of looking at the universe have changed throughout history doesn't mean each scientific theory will inevitably shift. If your goal is to be rational, then you must accept each scientific theory until the day we have new evidence and a different understanding.

The effect of the Earth's gravitational pull on the Sun does not result in the Sun orbiting the Earth.

So what you're saying is a lot of what we know now to be factual is actually wrong and eventually it'll change to be something else? That doesn't make me feel that confident in what we know now.
 
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Lacuis said:
If your goal is to be rational, then you must accept each scientific theory until the day we have new evidence and a different understanding.

I didn't say that.

It sure seems like you did. If eventually we'll have new evidence then what we believe to be valid now will be proved to be wrong. It does seem there are some hard facts and a lot of theories floating around. Take for example the contents of a 1895 school science text book. Most of what's in it has been proved to be invalid due to advancements. You clearly stated that with new evidence we'll have a new understanding meaning the understanding we have now will be proved to be inaccurate (wrong). There, I did my best to explain my point of view, but if you still can't grasp what I'm saying then maybe you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work.
 

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It sure seems like you did. If eventually we'll have new evidence then what we believe to be valid now will be proved to be wrong. It does seem there are some hard facts and a lot of theories floating around. Take for example the contents of a 1895 school science text book. Most of what's in it has been proved to be invalid due to advancements. You clearly stated that with new evidence we'll have a new understanding meaning the understanding we have now will be proved to be inaccurate (wrong). There, I did my best to explain my point of view, but if you still can't grasp what I'm saying then maybe you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work.
Our scientific theories may change if new evidence becomes available, and this has happened before. That's a benefit of science, not a flaw. That does not mean significant changes to our current scientific theories are likely or inevitable. If your goal is to be rational, you must accept current scientific understanding until a day in which new evidence is discovered that contradicts that understanding. With a lot of scientific theories, such as germ theory and the theory of evolution, that's nearly impossible at this point because they're so well-substantiated. Just because it's technically possible we are all living in the Matrix, for example, and some of our scientific theories could be wrong doesn't alone provide a rational basis for rejecting present scientific theories.

Edit: It has also already been noted that this is pretty off-topic. If you'd like to continue this conversation, start a PM or tag me in a relevant thread.
 
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Our scientific theories may change if new evidence becomes available, and this has happened before. That's a benefit of science, not a flaw. That does not mean significant changes to our current scientific theories are likely or inevitable. If your goal is to be rational, you must accept current scientific understanding until a day in which new evidence is discovered that contradicts that understanding. With a lot of scientific theories, such as germ theory and the theory of evolution, that's nearly impossible at this point because they're so well-substantiated. Just because it's technically possible we are all living in the Matrix, for example, and some of our scientific theories could be wrong doesn't alone provide a rational basis for rejecting present scientific theories.

Whether or not you see it as a benefit or a flaw would be your personal opinion and I've stated mine. I view it as a flaw and it doesn't put much confidence in what we currently know if it will be proved to be wrong in another 50 years.
 

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This is obvious bait... other stuff was here
It wasn't, just a joke. I pretty much agree with everything you said.

Whether or not you see it as a benefit or a flaw would be your personal opinion and I've stated mine. I view it as a flaw and it doesn't put much confidence in what we currently know if it will be proved to be wrong in another 50 years.
this is some concentrated cringe
some of the things we take for granted are going to be wrong due to the march of time, but as they exist now, they fit perfectly with our understanding of the universe
saying "oh, some of them are wrong," not only with no evidence for any particular thing, but simply so you can ignore science writ large... my man, this is some real dumbassery
 
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Deleted member 559230

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this is some concentrated cringe
some of the things we take for granted are going to be wrong due to the march of time, but as they exist now, they fit perfectly with our understanding of the universe
saying "oh, some of them are wrong," not only with no evidence for any particular thing, but simply so you can ignore science writ large... my man, this is some real dumbassery

Well it's my opinion and I'm not going to call you nasty things because yours differs from mine.
 

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It wasn't, just a joke. I pretty much agree with everything you said.
Fair. I thought you expected me to say that the guy has dementia, which I have no evidence for besides him consistently forgetting what he was talking about and changing the subject to kettle corn or cranberries after 30 seconds, which is typical of dinosaurs anyway.
 

tabzer

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The planets in our solar system orbit around the sun, and the sun does not orbit around any of the planets. If you were to cease arguing for the sake of arguing, you would see there's no technicality that changes this fact. And, to get back to the point, you would see that heliocentric theory and the theory of evolution, like all scientific theories, are also facts.

What I've described is the barycenter which you are still disputing. It's by definition that they orbit another. It seems like your argument is shifting towards accepting that (the benefit, not the flaw?), but it still hasn't reached the threshold of the fact. Maybe you are waiting for everyone else to embrace it so that it becomes colloquial enough?

"In astronomy, the barycenter (or barycentre; from the Ancient Greek βαρύς heavy κέντρον center[1]) is the center of mass of two or more bodies that orbit one another and is the point about which the bodies orbit. It is an important concept in fields such as astronomy and astrophysics. The distance from a body's center of mass to the barycenter can be calculated as a two-body problem.

If one of the two orbiting bodies is much more massive than the other and the bodies are relatively close to one another, the barycenter will typically be located within the more massive object. In this case, rather than the two bodies appearing to orbit a point between them, the less massive body will appear to orbit about the more massive body, while the more massive body might be observed to wobble slightly."

Appearances do not change the facts. A "wobble" of the sun still covers notable distance, if you are a human.

The math and the logic of the Barycenter is not dependent on Heliocentrism. That's just you being dogmatic.

Biden says “Science is discovery. Not a fiction."
 
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Fair. I thought you expected me to say that the guy has dementia, which I have no evidence for besides him consistently forgetting what he was talking about and changing the subject to kettle corn or cranberries after 30 seconds, which is typical of dinosaurs anyway.
Isn't that one of the symptoms of dementia though? Yeah, I know memory gets affected as you get older, but some old people do have great memory regardless of age. And furthermore, if he's old and his memory is fading, um, why the hell is he president of the united states? One of the the most important jobs in the world? A job like that take a lot of physical and even more mental strain which, which it doesn't seem like he has. This isn't specifically targeted at you, but why vote in a frail old man with memory problems into a position where he has nuclear codes?
 

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Isn't that one of the symptoms of dementia though? Yeah, I know memory gets affected as you get older, but some old people do have great memory regardless of age. And furthermore, if he's old and his memory is fading, um, why the hell is he president of the united states? One of the the most important jobs in the world? A job like that take a lot of physical and even more mental strain which, which it doesn't seem like he has. This isn't specifically targeted at you, but why vote in a frail old man with memory problems into a position where he has nuclear codes?
As a general rule you'd need to examine someone and have some degree of expertise in the field in order to make a diagnosis. You shouldn't throw around medical diagnoses if you don't have anything to back them up besides a hunch and you're not qualified to make them, especially when actual medical staff is saying he's fine - that could be considered slander. What you can say is that he has poor short-term memory and his mind likes to wander because you can see that when he speaks - that's evidenced by nearly every single public speech of his in the last few years.
 

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As a general rule you'd need to examine someone and have some degree of expertise in the field in order to make a diagnosis. You shouldn't throw around medical diagnoses if you don't have anything to back them up besides a hunch and you're not qualified to make them, especially when actual medical staff is saying he's fine - that could be considered slander. What you can say is that he has poor short-term memory and his mind likes to wander because you can see that when he speaks - that's evidenced by nearly every single public speech of his in the last few years.
That's fair, but for me, even if it is just a hunch, if I have the slightest doubts of putting a man in a position of great power, I wouldn't vote for them.
 

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That's fair, but for me, even if it is just a hunch, if I have the slightest doubts of putting a man in a position of great power, I wouldn't vote for them.
I wouldn't vote for Biden based on policy alone, the fact that he's a gaffe-machine dinosaur is a separate matter entirely, but I see your point.
 

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Whether or not you see it as a benefit or a flaw would be your personal opinion and I've stated mine. I view it as a flaw and it doesn't put much confidence in what we currently know if it will be proved to be wrong in another 50 years.
Our scientific theories are based on evidence. If the goal is to have scientific theories that are correct, then being based on evidence is the only way to do that. I want scientific theories that are based on the evidence, and if the evidence changes, I would want scientific theories to reflect those changes in evidence. You aren't describing any sort of flaw with science; you're describing how logic and reason work. If there's some sort of dogmatic claim that has been disproved by evidence but continues to endure without changing, that's a flaw in that system.

We have ample evidence that well-established theories like evolution, heliocentric, and germ theory will not change in 50 years. If you care about being rational, and if you care about evidence, then you must accept these theories and others as fact, because that's what they are. If you want to say science can't be trusted, then you're free to do that, but you're probably selectively believing the science you like and not the science you don't like, which is dishonest, and let's not pretend it isn't irrational and anti-science to arbitrarily reject proven facts like evolution and germ theory.

What I've described is the barycenter which you are still disputing. It's by definition that they orbit another. It seems like your argument is shifting towards accepting that (the benefit, not the flaw?), but it still hasn't reached the threshold of the fact. Maybe you are waiting for everyone else to embrace it so that it becomes colloquial enough?

Biden says “Science is discovery. Not a fiction."
I haven't disputed the concept of a barycenter. The problem is the solar system's barycenter is located on the surface of the sun, and in no way, shape, or form does the sun orbit the Earth. The sun orbits the barycenter, causing it to wobble slightly.

This is all also irrelevant, because you're trying to use heliocentric theory to argue for your points, meaning you've accepted heliocentric theory as fact. Theories like germ theory and evolution are also facts.

I agree with Biden that science is discovery, not a fiction. We have discovered that evolution, germ theory, heliocentrism, etc. are true. Rejection of these well-established scientific theories, with no reason to do so, is to embrace a fiction.

This will be my last post on the topics of science, unless there's a newfound relevance to this thread. I will see any responses to this post as an invitation for a private message from me.
 

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@tabzer Don't bait people into continuing an inane, off-topic conversation when it was already indicated that it's off-topic and doesn't contribute anything to the thread. If you have a specific point to make that ties it to the Biden administration, now would be the time to make it. If you don't, you can make a separate thread about science and the movement of celestial bodies where this can be discussed in depth. I've warned everyone verbally once, deletion of off-topic content and official warnings will follow. This thread is off the rails already as it is, it doesn't need any help in getting lost in the weeds further.
 

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A bit random, but Larry Krasner has won reelection.
just wanna thank you for keeping this thread pumped full of actual information
krasner is pretty cool

EDIT: Just realized the people who'll see this. Larry Krasner is the DA for Philadelphia, has been for a few years, interested in reforms like marijuana decriminalization and greater accountability. He has been surrounded with a truly ludicrous amount of corruption, and the police union specifically asked its members to switch blue to unseat him in the primary.
As you see, they failed. Fuck 'em.
 
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Lol, who "learns" about the three states of matter in 10th grade physics?
The same place where Darth Meteos got his history degree: in the dumpster behind Walmart. We're talking about a guy that quotes himself in his own signature, I wouldn't be surprised if he also thinks that plasma in blood refers to the state of matter.
According to his omniscient mind, fascism isn't radical socialism because french fries aren't french (and judging by that same logic, he probably believes the United States of America is in Asia). That's the level of knowledge this guy works with.
 
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tabzer

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The same place where Darth Meteos got his history degree: in the dumpster behind Walmart. We're talking about a guy that quotes himself in his own signature, I wouldn't be surprised if he also thinks that plasma in blood refers to the state of matter.
According to his omniscient mind, fascism isn't radical socialism because french fries aren't french (and judging by that same logic, he probably believes the United States of America is in Asia). That's the level of knowledge this guy works with.

I'm not sure if American educational systems require degrees to teach, at large. My understanding is that primary education is undervalued as a career, and the system is desperate for "educators". I find it suspect that the role of someone being a teacher should be even mentioned here, on a political thread.

"Those who can, do; those who can't, teach."
 
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