Epic is suing VR/AR company Nreal because their name sounds too much like Unreal

epic-games-logo.jpg

Epic Games is no stranger to legal battles, especially as of late. Currently, they're in the midst of a drawn-out fight against Apple, but now they're beginning another court case against another company: Nreal. We've covered Nreal's various products in the past, which range from mixed reality headsets, to smart glasses; the company is one that dabbles in virtual and augmented reality technology, not typically gaming, but that hasn't stopped them from catching Epic Games' attention. Epic posits that Nreal both looks and sounds too similar to their own Unreal Engine, to the point that they're suing Nreal over "willfully trading off Epic’s rights, causing confusion, and acting with callous disregard for Epic’s prior rights", and making a profit by "confusing consumers" with the name.

The lawsuit, which was filed last week, aims to prevent Nreal from obtaining a trademark in the United States. It also appears to be seeking compensation from Nreal for multiple forms of damages and the reimbursement of Epic's legal costs. According to the legal papers, this has been an ongoing issue for years; Nreal attempted to obtain a trademark for its name in 2018, to which Epic Games opposed their application. With the American launch of Nreal's products quickly approaching according to a recent teaser made on the company's Twitter, and reportedly no attempt from them to discuss the problem outside of court, Epic has decided to move forward with the lawsuit.

:arrow: Source
 

Skelletonike

♂ ♥ Gallant Pervert ♥ ♀
Member
GBAtemp Patron
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
3,422
Trophies
3
Age
32
Location
Steam City
XP
2,649
Country
Portugal
Well, I can understand their point of view. They do seem pretty similar and it's easier for the usual soccer mom or dad to mix them up.
 

pcwizard7

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,409
Trophies
0
XP
1,688
Country
Australia
companies can be so petty which it comes to names. Unless their name has the same name in the name or common word you shouldn't be able to sue
 

LightBeam

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
941
Trophies
0
XP
2,358
Country
France
Well, english is my 2nd language so I may be totally wrong but I absolutely use the same pronunciation for Unreal and Nreal
It's literally a word, it's stupid af and again, it comes as very very hypocritical from Epic (what a surprise)
 

smf

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
6,634
Trophies
2
XP
5,820
Country
United Kingdom
This is literally irrelevent. The words sounding similar are not grounds for substantial similarity, nor are they equivalent to "naming your company upple and selling an ayphone." You literally can name your company upple if you want. You just need to sell something like balloons or alchohol or something(or hell, literal apples). "Upple" sounding similar to "apple" is only relevent if you're a company that sells tech.

That is the reason why I chose an example with a similar sounding name in the same industry.

You would have a point if the company's name was 3pic and they were selling the Nreal engine, but they aren't. There is no confusion with unreal engine when talking about "Nreal" virtual reality headsets just like there isn't confusion with microsoft windows when talking about "Glass windows". "The same sounding word" does not equal "brand confusion." The two aren't the same and epic's "unreal" trademark is for a game engine, not virtual reality headsets. Even trying to say "epic might wanna branch into vr" isn't an argument, because they haven't, and beating them to the punch isn't grounds for a lawsuit. If epic made "unreal vr headsets" before Nreal started making headsets, sure, but they didn't.

It doesn't matter that they aren't currently making headsets, trademarks operate in industries not on specific products.

VR and 3d engines are in the same industry.

If Nreal were selling dustbins then epic wouldn't have sued.

Your example doesn't work in this case since Unreal Engine is a game engine, whereas, Nreal is a company's name.

They are both trademarks, it doesn't matter if it's for a product or a company.

I created an operating system and I'm going to call it Microsoft and I'm going to start a company called Windows to sell it. On the box I will put Microsoft from Windows and sell it in computer stores.

They've been trying to sort this issue out for two years.

https://next.reality.news/news/epic...-nreal-over-trademark-naming-dispute-0213689/

I can’t wait for Epic to sue the English language for having the word “unreal” and not paying them royalties

I can't wait for you to train to be a trademark lawyer so that you understand why your argument is wrong.

It doesn't work that way. Windows will not lose their trademark if they don't sue a window company. Epic owns the trademark for unreal in only the context of a game engine. A game engine named Nreal would violate that trademark, but a manufacturer of virtual reality headsets, does not. Epic owns the trademark for "the unreal engine" not just the word unreal in any and all contexts it may be used.

Virtual reality headsets and 3d game engines are in a related industry, it's very likely that the games you would play using the nreal headset will be running in the unreal engine.

Microsoft and a window company are not in a related industry.

It's like you understand this stuff, but are purposefully misunderstanding your own argument at the same time.

companies can be so petty which it comes to names. Unless their name has the same name in the name or common word you shouldn't be able to sue

nreal was obviously chosen to sound like unreal. It's not petty.

Well, english is my 2nd language so I may be totally wrong but I absolutely use the same pronunciation for Unreal and Nreal
It's literally a word, it's stupid af and again, it comes as very very hypocritical from Epic (what a surprise)

All trademarks are literally words.

How is it hypocritical?
 
Last edited by smf,

LightBeam

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
941
Trophies
0
XP
2,358
Country
France
All trademarks are literally words.

How is it hypocritical?
Because thinking it would confuse people that Nreal is related to Unreal is a reach. One is a word from the dictionary, the other is a modification of said word and it's not even pronounced the same
It's hypocritical because Epic does try to get the PR of a « pro consummer » company and they prove again that it's something they don't deserve
In France we had a show called Burger Quizz, do you think Burger King would have complained about how similar the name is ? Or why Blizzard wouldn't sue Valve because of their anti cheat system called Overwatch ?

It's just a complete reach.
I can absolutely understand the « related industry » stuff for the average joe but you are wrong when you say that there was an intent with « nreal » to be similar to « unreal » (the engine, not the word), or it's yet to be proven because good luck proving basing your company's name over a word = meant to harm another company.

You would be right if the company's name was « Unreal », but it's not. It's « Nreal », and it's totally different. Or Disney could sue MacDonalds because their duck almost got the same name ? Where's the point when it becomes stupid if we didn't already crossed it ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Subtle Demise

AxlSt00pid

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
1,923
Trophies
1
Age
24
XP
3,486
Country
Spain
This is as stupid as that one time the PUBG devs sued a company I can't remember because one game they made had a frying pan as a melee weapon "just like PUBG"
 
D

Deleted User

Guest
To be fair, the obvious overlap between Unreal and Nreal would be the Visualisation Industries, of which Unreal has been pushing for a better Market Share with their acquisition of Twinmotion.

This has quite a large Market Potential, theoretically much larger than Gaming because the target Demographic range from Aerospace to Automotive and Architectural Industries, all of which have deep Corporate pockets for Bulk Purchasing rather than the cumulative Buying Power of the average Gamer.

My position on this is that Nreal should try to better differentiate themselves; this doesn't necessarily require a Brand overhaul. Adding a prefix or suffix should be able to accomplish that with minimal pain.
 
Last edited by , , Reason: Wording.

stanleyopar2000

RIP Yuzu. "It is always morally correct..."
Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
4,795
Trophies
2
Location
C-137
Website
www.youtube.com
XP
3,618
Country
United States
If you read or even say nreal as unreal maybe you have other problems

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


It may be dumb, but how else are we supposed to make a living when companies pay us slave wages and treat us like shit for pennies?

In America, you aren't supposed to make a living. You are supposed to have just enough to live but never enough to get ahead.
 
Last edited by stanleyopar2000,

xdarkx

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
734
Trophies
1
XP
2,694
Country
Canada
They are both trademarks, it doesn't matter if it's for a product or a company.

I created an operating system and I'm going to call it Microsoft and I'm going to start a company called Windows to sell it. On the box I will put Microsoft from Windows and sell it in computer stores.

They've been trying to sort this issue out for two years.

https://next.reality.news/news/epic...-nreal-over-trademark-naming-dispute-0213689/
I have no idea wth you are talking about. As far as I can tell, you are really reaching. Unless Nreal makes a game engine themselves, I don't see how one would confuse a game engine with a company's name. Even if the Unreal Engine supports VR, it's still a game engine by the end of the day.

Let's put it this way, if you were to go ask someone right now what are some popular game engine out there, would you expect anyone to say Nreal as one of the answers?
 

FAST6191

Techromancer
Editorial Team
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
36,798
Trophies
3
XP
28,282
Country
United Kingdom
Because thinking it would confuse people that Nreal is related to Unreal is a reach. One is a word from the dictionary, the other is a modification of said word and it's not even pronounced the same
It's hypocritical because Epic does try to get the PR of a « pro consummer » company and they prove again that it's something they don't deserve
In France we had a show called Burger Quizz, do you think Burger King would have complained about how similar the name is ? Or why Blizzard wouldn't sue Valve because of their anti cheat system called Overwatch ?

It's just a complete reach.
I can absolutely understand the « related industry » stuff for the average joe but you are wrong when you say that there was an intent with « nreal » to be similar to « unreal » (the engine, not the word), or it's yet to be proven because good luck proving basing your company's name over a word = meant to harm another company.

You would be right if the company's name was « Unreal », but it's not. It's « Nreal », and it's totally different. Or Disney could sue MacDonalds because their duck almost got the same name ? Where's the point when it becomes stupid if we didn't already crossed it ?


That is not how trademark laws work though.

It generally encompasses all of human communication -- spoken, logos, written and such.
Pronunciation might matter but the u is pretty silent in a lot of speech and many would also pronounce words beginning with n with an uun sound. If the sales moron in the shop says this is the nreal fancy device and unreal/epic gets a call later when it is junk, or a bad review, or a non returning customer... that is not their fault and the very sort of thing trademark laws are there to try to prevent.

They are presumably the same industry. It is not even that subjective a lot of the time -- you have trademark classifications which trademark peeps buy individual ones for.
https://www.wipo.int/classification...ang=en&notion=class_headings&version=20190101 and broadly similar for most countries that sign up to it.
I will have to look up for each of them ( https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/show...c&state=4801:oyadah.2.1&a_search=Submit+Query ) but I find it hard to imagine a lack of overlap in this scenario.

Burger king vs burger quizz is presumably both different enough in name and industry (though I would wonder if mcdonalds has a trademark or two here as they do make cartoons and other such media) that it does not matter. Overwatch could be more fun, it is a general term (snipers and similar will provide overwatch for their team) and it would depend upon the customers -- the customers (and it is the general consumer that trademarks are aimed for, sometimes it is specialist, sometimes it is the general public) for anti cheat software possibly not being as confused as those looking for a game.

Trademark law has a concept called genericide. This is where lack of action taken to protect it means the word becomes a generic term for a product and the trademark ceases to be. This is generally considered a bad thing if you are the owner of the trademark as they are valuable things to own.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27026704
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/...-require-companies-tirelessly-censor-internet
Failing to monitor your business field and allowing others to make use of it, along with using things as a verb yourself (there is a reason google does not "google it" in any PR piece you will read).

To that end this seems like a reasonable thing to take a stand on. Whether absolutely essential or theoretically able to left we might debate but far from unreasonable from where I sit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: smf and Mama Looigi

chrisrlink

Has a PhD in dueling
Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
5,528
Trophies
2
Location
duel acadamia
XP
5,666
Country
United States
classic apple bulshit just in another companies wrapper steve jobs probably wrote a manual on how to sue before his death @FAST6191 you're eff.org link that i read prove otherwise that trademarks can't be "deluded" it's a myth
 
Last edited by chrisrlink,

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
    Sonic Angel Knight @ Sonic Angel Knight: Green name in chat. :P