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Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

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DoubleDate

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I too have been asking myself how Biden is doing mentally, he often mispoke himself, and even thought his son Hunter was alive in numerous occasions, sadly his son passed away. I think all of it is a polical played game to let Harris run. We are 5 months in and i think we will see more of things like this in the upcoming months. It would deff not surprise me if at one point Kamala Harris goes from Vice to the US president, i think something like that is going to play out. Nothing againts Mr Biden but something feels off.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...en-suggesting-wasnt-legitimately-elected.html
 

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Yeah, someone already mentioned Biden is trying to do the balancing act on this issue a couple pages back. It's very disappointing, but not particularly surprising. It's not as though we're going to go to bat for Israel or Palestine militarily, but we've been financially backing Israel for a long time now so there's some ridiculous sunk cost fallacy going on there. I have no problem with criticizing Biden over that, because I've never pretended he was my idea of the perfect president, and all presidents are meant to be scrutinized, not idolized. They're public servants, and they're human. Well, some were more orangutan, but for the most part.
Why would this be considered a balancing act though? Israel does have the right to defend Israel. It's an internationally recognised, independent, sovereign state.
It's not really that easy. How do you make peace with a government that wants to erase your existence? How do you "talk it out"? A compromise with the state of Israel is no compromise at all, it is erasure and genocide of the Palestinian people. Israel will not abide to a two-state situation, and even if they did that would still mean Palestinians have lost their homes and land. Think about South Africa or Northern Ireland or the Kashmir region or Colonial America under the yoke of the British empire (or for that matter indigenous America under the yoke of immigrant colonists). Is(was) there peace in these colonized regions? Is there any peace between colonizers and the colonized? No. Of course not. There is only apartheid and oppression and murder of the colonized peoples. None of these situations are good. The only solution that isn't genocide of the Palestinian people is that the government and state of Israel dissolve and the settlers who have colonized Palestinian land and stolen Palestinian homes return to their respective homes, but that will not occur willingly.

This interview with Ghassan Kanafani (who was murdered presumably by the state of Israel of course) sums it up pretty well.



This interview was conducted in the 60s, and 60 years (more than a century really if you think about how long this conflict has been going on for) later it is the same situation now as it was then.
Palestinians have repeatedly rejected the two-state solution, they were offered as much as 92.7% of the West Bank and all of Gaza, as well as pockets of Jerusalem for the purposes of worship - they rejected the offer, along with many others before it. They don't want an independent Palestinian state, they want to expel Jews from Jerusalem because they consider it their holy land.
 

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Israel does have the right to defend Israel. It's an internationally recognised, independent, sovereign state.
In the literal sense, sure, they have a right to defend themselves. But Israel is much like the US in that, all too often, "defense" is a code word for "war," and in this case it borders on attempted genocide.
 
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Darth Meteos

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Palestinians have repeatedly rejected the two-state solution, they were offered as much as 92.7% of the West Bank and all of Gaza, as well as pockets of Jerusalem for the purposes of worship - they rejected the offer, along with many others before it. They don't want an independent Palestinian state, they want to expel Jews from Jerusalem because they consider it their holy land.
fair enough
i guess that makes the whole genocide thing okay, they're being pretty unreasonable
 
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fair enough
i guess that makes the whole genocide thing okay, they're being pretty unreasonable
When both sides want to push each other into the sea it's hard to side with either of them. Let's not forget that the neighbouring Arab states are not huge fans of Israel just existing, how many Arab-Israeli wars did we go through in the last century? Technically the conflict is still on-going since 1948. The Palestinians were offered a free, sovereign state five times - they rejected each and every offer and refused to negotiate. If they're not looking for a peaceful solution, they get no sympathy.
 

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Seliph

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Palestinians have repeatedly rejected the two-state solution, they were offered as much as 92.7% of the West Bank and all of Gaza, as well as pockets of Jerusalem for the purposes of worship - they rejected the offer, along with many others before it. They don't want an independent Palestinian state, they want to expel Jews from Jerusalem because they consider it their holy land.
Of course they rejected it. Why would Palestinians give up their land and homes? Why would Catholics in Northern Ireland give up their homes to protestants? Why would South Africans give up their homes to the Dutch? Why would Kashmiris give up their homes to India? Why would Americans give up their homes to the British? etc. etc. etc.

Losing your homes is not a solution like I already said. A 2 state solution is the equivalent of someone forcing you to give them 7.3% of your home, no rent, no compensation, no nothing. Just vibes and the promise that *maybe* the IDF will stop airstrikes against children and innocent people. It's the equivalent of the school bully saying "hey give me 7.3% of your school lunch every day and I won't beat you unconscious". Why should the Palestinian people be content with being colonized? That 7.3% of land housed thousands of disposed Palestinian people who have nowhere else to go. Do they deserve this? Is this a fair solution? Palestinians who live in this land aren't going to be okay with losing their homes just because some governments decided on a 2 state "solution", they will fight to keep their homes just like anyone else would. In addition, Israel has more funding and firepower (thanks to the US) than the Palestinian people could ever have, Israel could easily force more than 7.3% if they wanted to and Palestinians could do nothing about it. I don't see this as a very fair situation.

The establishment of South Africa did not lead to peace, the establishment of Northern Ireland did not lead to peace, why would just another two-state situation lead to peace? Especially one where Palestinians are ejected from their homes and their cultures are erased?

Also, claiming that "they want to expel Jews from Jerusalem because they consider it their holy land" is silly. What about atheist Palestinians who are fighting for liberation? What about Jewish people who support the sovereignty of Palestine? This is about real people with real lives being uprooted from their homes by the government of Israel. Certainly, some people do regard it as a holy land, many great Islamic temples exist across the land (many that have been destroyed by the IDF), but to say this is the whole reason does not fit with the current or historical reality of the region. It's about the fact that Israel wants to create a Jewish ethnostate and the US wants to use Israel as a proxy government for when the US army "leaves" the region, "holy land" is only a pretext. In addition, it's not that Palestinians want to expel Jews necessarily, it's not that they want to create a Muslim ethnostate like Israel wants to create a Jewish ethnostate. Palestinians just want their homes back, their homes that have been stolen by the government of Israel. There can be peace between Muslims and Jewish people, but until Israel stops murdering Muslims and favoring Jewish people in their apartheid state - until dispossessed Palestinians get their homes back, we will not see peace.

It should be noted that many Jewish immigrants who have taken Palestinian homes are from the US, or other countries much richer than Palestine. They could easily go back to their homes the same way they came to Palestine. Palestinians do not have this luxury, they do not have homes to go back to since their homes are actively being occupied. Israel's occupation and eviction and apartheid is genocide, Palestinians evicting colonizers back to their home countries is not. This is not a situation of both sides "wanting to push their other side into the sea" this is a situation of people wanting to keep their homes and lives. Palestine does not have nearly as much power as Israel, they couldn't "push Israel into the sea" even if they wanted to. Israel can do that to Palestinians, and that's what they've been doing for decades. You cannot condemn both sides when there is so clearly a power imbalance between the two, with Israel as colonizer and Palestine as colonial subject.
 
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Of course they rejected it. Why would Palestinians give up their land and homes? Why would Catholics in Northern Ireland give up their homes to protestants? Why would South Africans give up their homes to the Dutch? Why would Kashmiris give up their homes to India? etc. etc. etc.

Losing your homes is not a solution like I already said. A 2 state solution is the equivalent of someone forcing you to give them 7.3% of your home, no rent, no compensation, no nothing. Just vibes and the promise that *maybe* the IDF will stop airstrikes against children and innocent people. Why should the Palestinian people be content with being colonized? That 7.3% of land housed thousands of disposed Palestinian people who have nowhere else to go. Do they deserve this? Is this a fair solution? Palestinians who live in this land aren't going to be okay with losing their homes just because some governments decided on a 2 state "solution", they will fight to keep their homes just like anyone else would. In addition, Israel has more funding and firepower (thanks to the US) than the Palestinian people could ever have, Israel could easily force more than 7.3% if they wanted to and Palestinians could do nothing about it. I don't see this as a very fair situation.

The establishment of South Africa did not lead to peace, the establishment of Northern Ireland did not lead to peace, why would just another two-state situation lead to peace? Especially one where Palestinians are ejected from their homes and their cultures are erased?

Also, claiming that "they want to expel Jews from Jerusalem because they consider it their holy land" is silly. What about atheist Palestinians who are fighting for liberation? What about Jewish people who support the sovereignty of Palestine? This is about real people with real lives being uprooted from their homes by the government of Israel. Certainly, some people do regard it as a holy land, many great Islamic temples exist across the land (many that have been destroyed by the IDF), but to say this is the whole reason does not fit with the current or historical reality of the region. It's about the fact that Israel wants to create a Jewish ethnostate and the US wants to use Israel as a proxy government for when the US army "leaves" the region, "holy land" is only a pretext. In addition, it's not that Palestinians want to expel Jews necessarily, it's not that they want to create a Muslim ethnostate like Israel wants to create a Jewish ethnostate. Palestinians just want their homes back, their homes that have been stolen by the government of Israel. There can be peace between Muslims and Jewish people, but until Israel stops murdering Muslims and favoring Jewish people in their apartheid state, we will not see peace.

It should be noted that many Jewish immigrants who have taken Palestinian homes are from the US, or other countries much richer than Palestine. They could easily go back to their homes the same way they came to Palestine. Palestinians do not have this luxury, they do not have homes to go back to since their homes are actively being occupied. Israel's occupation and eviction and apartheid is genocide, Palestinians evicting Jewish people who have taken their homes is not.
Yea the Middle East Is all Types of mess up.
Let me start by the Fact, Israel is treating Palestinian like 2nd class and what worse is start to treat them inhumanly .
The area of land is a bit more complicated as you have to understand why its like this to start with.
1. Six day Wars started it as all the Arab nations that Surround Israel were planing to attack Israel to wipe it out by massing troops at Boarder (although people say they were not, President Nassar did state that was the plan as he created hostility for weeks leading up to it). Israel was able to make a preemptive strike and in 6 days were able to not only fight off 5 nations that surrounded but were able to capture land that was used in the planing of the attack. Multiple Peace Treaties were created to Return the captured land but must IMPORTANTLY the Arab Nations abandoned Palestinians by not helping them in the Treaties and refusing take control of the Areas. (both Egypt and Jordan refused to take Responsibility for the land) and infact were urging Palestinian to leave their homes in Israel.
2 But Israel have treated Palestinians horrible, and Keep changing the "Property lines". They claim that it is the Spoils of War that they won.

I do Believe a Two State Treaty is needed . I know if not Fair but the issue is that Palestine did lose a War and Need to accept that, ( Egypt, and Jordan accepted their loses) They can not demand the status Quo of 70years ago before a War. but Israel still needs to act Respectfully the Palestinians.
Both of them need to Get off their High Horse and deal with Reality.
 
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Yea the Middle East Is all Types of mess up.
Let me start by the Fact, Israel is treating Palestinian like 2nd class and what worse is start to treat them inhumanly .
The area of land is a bit more complicated as you have to understand why its like this to start with.
1. Six day Wars started it as all the Arab nations that Surround Israel were planing to attack Israel to wipe it out by massing troops at Boarder (although people say they were not, President Nassar did state that was the plan as he created hostility for weeks leading up to it). Israel was able to make a preemptive strike and in 6 days were able to not only fight off 5 nations that surrounded but were able to capture land that was used in the planing of the attack. Multiple Peace Treaties were created to Return the captured land but must IMPORTANTLY the Arab Nations abandoned Palestinians by not helping them in the Treaties and refusing take control of the Areas. (both Egypt and Jordan refused to take Responsibility for the land) and infact were urging Palestinian to leave their homes in Israel.
2 But Israel have treated Palestinians horrible, and Keep changing the "Property lines". They claim that it is the Spoils of War that they won.

I do Believe a Two State Treaty is needed . I know if not Fair but the issue is that Palestine did lose a War and Need to accept that, ( Egypt, and Jordan accepted their loses) They can not demand the status Quo of 70years ago before a War. but Israel still needs to act Respectfully the Palestinians.
Both of them need to Get off their High Horse and deal with Reality.
I see where you are coming from, certainly the situation is a mess and governments have made this more complicated than it should be. My perspective is of the people living on the land. They do not care about peace treaties or spoils of war, they care about keeping their homes. Sure, maybe between governments a two-state solution can be seen as equitable, but for the people living on the land? How can a solution that means the dispossession of thousands of now landless people be considered a solution? How can giving land to a state that is actively practicing ethnic cleansing be considered a solution for the 7.3% Palestinian people that would be erased in a two-state solution? Certainly, the state of Palestine lost a war many decades ago, but the current people do not deserve to endure the unjust consequences of a war they never fought in. At this point generations have lived and died in Palestine, it is the home of the Palestinian people. Giving up their home and their land to colonizers should not be something that happens if we want to ensure the safety of the Palestinian people and the stability of the region. I again bring up the case of colonized Northern Ireland, which is not a stable region. It is rife with poverty and inequality that is shouldered directly by the Irish people. Why do we expect a different outcome in colonized Palestine? This is about the lives of real people and their right to live where they have lived all their lives, not some decades-old drama between governments.
 

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Of course they rejected it. Why would Palestinians give up their land and homes? Why would Catholics in Northern Ireland give up their homes to protestants? Why would South Africans give up their homes to the Dutch? Why would Kashmiris give up their homes to India? Why would Americans give up their homes to the British? etc. etc. etc.

Losing your homes is not a solution like I already said. A 2 state solution is the equivalent of someone forcing you to give them 7.3% of your home, no rent, no compensation, no nothing. Just vibes and the promise that *maybe* the IDF will stop airstrikes against children and innocent people. It's the equivalent of the school bully saying "hey give me 7.3% of your school lunch every day and I won't beat you unconscious". Why should the Palestinian people be content with being colonized? That 7.3% of land housed thousands of disposed Palestinian people who have nowhere else to go. Do they deserve this? Is this a fair solution? Palestinians who live in this land aren't going to be okay with losing their homes just because some governments decided on a 2 state "solution", they will fight to keep their homes just like anyone else would. In addition, Israel has more funding and firepower (thanks to the US) than the Palestinian people could ever have, Israel could easily force more than 7.3% if they wanted to and Palestinians could do nothing about it. I don't see this as a very fair situation.

The establishment of South Africa did not lead to peace, the establishment of Northern Ireland did not lead to peace, why would just another two-state situation lead to peace? Especially one where Palestinians are ejected from their homes and their cultures are erased?

Also, claiming that "they want to expel Jews from Jerusalem because they consider it their holy land" is silly. What about atheist Palestinians who are fighting for liberation? What about Jewish people who support the sovereignty of Palestine? This is about real people with real lives being uprooted from their homes by the government of Israel. Certainly, some people do regard it as a holy land, many great Islamic temples exist across the land (many that have been destroyed by the IDF), but to say this is the whole reason does not fit with the current or historical reality of the region. It's about the fact that Israel wants to create a Jewish ethnostate and the US wants to use Israel as a proxy government for when the US army "leaves" the region, "holy land" is only a pretext. In addition, it's not that Palestinians want to expel Jews necessarily, it's not that they want to create a Muslim ethnostate like Israel wants to create a Jewish ethnostate. Palestinians just want their homes back, their homes that have been stolen by the government of Israel. There can be peace between Muslims and Jewish people, but until Israel stops murdering Muslims and favoring Jewish people in their apartheid state - until dispossessed Palestinians get their homes back, we will not see peace.

It should be noted that many Jewish immigrants who have taken Palestinian homes are from the US, or other countries much richer than Palestine. They could easily go back to their homes the same way they came to Palestine. Palestinians do not have this luxury, they do not have homes to go back to since their homes are actively being occupied. Israel's occupation and eviction and apartheid is genocide, Palestinians evicting colonizers back to their home countries is not. This is not a situation of both sides "wanting to push their other side into the sea" this is a situation of people wanting to keep their homes and lives. Palestine does not have nearly as much power as Israel, they couldn't "push Israel into the sea" even if they wanted to. Israel can do that to Palestinians, and that's what they've been doing for decades. You cannot condemn both sides when there is so clearly a power imbalance between the two, with Israel as colonizer and Palestine as colonial subject.
You should probably look into the original plan for the dissolution of the mandate which gave Palestinians large swathes of land - Israel was supposed to be a tiny morsel for a tiny nation. The same plan that Israelis accepted and Palestinians rejected outright, choosing war instead. They chose war a couple of times, actually - with the help of Jordan, Egypt and other Arab states. It's not Israel's fault that they kept winning repeatedly and accruing more land in the process. There was always a Jewish presence in the region, it's as much their ancestral land as it is Palestinian. In contrast to Israel, there was never a "Palestinian" state - it was the customary name for the region that was administered by different states over the years, it was always inhabited by a variety of ethnic groups. Before the land became part Israel, it was already occupied - not by "Palestine", mind, but by Egypt and Jordan. This apparently wasn't an issue until the Jews were in charge - now it's supposed to be an independent state. Funny how that changed all of a sudden. The solution is to split the land in half, accept the new territorial lines and sign a treaty so that each side minds their own business, but you need two for the tango. Borders move, it's a fact of life - if Palestine wants to be in a state of perpetual conflict with Israel, that's their deal. This conflict is a century old and it's not getting resolved anytime soon, here and now Israel was attacked by Palestinian forces and has an obligation to respond in defense of its citizens. Do I like the treatment of Palestinians under Israeli rule? No - they are pushing Palestinians out of their homes. Do I like Palestinians? No, they shoot rockets at civilians indiscriminately. They both suck.
 

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I see where you are coming from, certainly the situation is a mess and governments have made this more complicated than it should be. My perspective is of the people living on the land. They do not care about peace treaties or spoils of war, they care about keeping their homes. Sure, maybe between governments a two-state solution can be seen as equitable, but for the people living on the land? How can a solution that means the dispossession of thousands of now landless people be considered a solution? How can giving land to a state that is actively practicing ethnic cleansing be considered a solution for the 7.3% Palestinian people that would be erased in a two-state solution? Certainly, the state of Palestine lost a war many decades ago, but the current people do not deserve to endure the unjust consequences of a war they never fought in. At this point generations have lived and died in Palestine, it is the home of the Palestinian people. Giving up their home and their land to colonizers should not be something that happens if we want to ensure the safety of the Palestinian people and the stability of the region. I again bring up the case of colonized Northern Ireland, which is not a stable region. It is rife with poverty and inequality that is shouldered directly by the Irish people. Why do we expect a different outcome in colonized Palestine? This is about the lives of real people and their right to live where they have lived all their lives, not some decades-old drama between governments.
That is why a 2 State Treaty is needed. As it would not only stop Israel "claiming" additional land but also return "some" Back to the Palestinian by establishing Strict boarder. Additional a Treaty should include Allowing existing home to allow Palestinians in Israel's land and vise versa. The Most Important Part it would Create New Laws to Recognize Palestinian sovereignty and Basic Human rights laws. The Land will never return to 1948 before Israel. People need to Accept and realized the Reality of today, The position of now. Thats The Same Augment Republicans make, The want American to go back to the "ALL White" Leave it to Beaver" 1950s. That will never happen. The same Principle applies. Palestinians have to understand They lost a War and their Neighboring Nations ( that Provoked the War) Abandoned them. They are losing More Land and Rights every year. A Treaty and 2 States are need for Both Israel and Palestinians sake and Thats not to say they have to accept anything Israel throws at them but Them Must Understand they will not get 100% of that they want. as Many refuse any Negotiation that does not Include 100% of Jerusalem.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

..ewww Foxi4's Like, makes me feel dirty..:rofl2:
 
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Foxi4

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That is why a 2 State Treaty is needed. As it would not only stop Israel "claiming" additional land but also return "some" Back to the Palestinian by establishing Strict boarder. Additional a Treaty should include Allowing existing home to allow Palestinians in Israel's land and vise versa. The Most Important Part it would Create New Laws to Recognize Palestinian sovereignty and Basic Human rights laws. The Land will never return to 1948 before Israel. People need to Accept and realized the Reality of today, The position of now. Thats The Same Augment Republicans make, The want American to go back to the "ALL White" Leave it to Beaver" 1950s. That will never happen. The same Principle applies. Palestinians have to understand They lost a War and their Neighboring Nations ( that Provoked the War) Abandoned them. They are losing More Land and Rights every year. A Treaty and 2 States are need for Both Israel and Palestinians sake and Thats not to say they have to accept anything Israel throws at them but Them Must Understand they will not get 100% of that they want. as Many refuse any Negotiation that does not Include 100% of Jerusalem.
Shockingly sensible.

You're my dirty panda. I'll even give you another one, just to make you feel extra special. :tpi:
 
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I'm trying not to comment in here but I just want to point out that I find it funny that under the Trump Administration people would blame Trump for every single little thing, but under Biden it's, 'NOT HIS FAULT IT'S ORANGE MAN BAD'S" even though he's not the president anymore. Weird, huh?
 

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I'm trying not to comment in here but I just want to point out that I find it funny that under the Trump Administration people would blame Trump for every single little thing, but under Biden it's, 'NOT HIS FAULT IT'S ORANGE MAN BAD'S" even though he's not the president anymore. Weird, huh?
Almost never do consequences for actions come back around to bite people in the ass instantly. I've said it before and I'll say it again: we'll be dealing with the fallout from Trump's dumpster fire of an administration for at least a decade. Those of us who lost friends or loved ones to the failed COVID-19 response will be dealing with it for a lifetime.
 
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I'm trying not to comment in here but I just want to point out that I find it funny that under the Trump Administration people would blame Trump for every single little thing, but under Biden it's, 'NOT HIS FAULT IT'S ORANGE MAN BAD'S" even though he's not the president anymore. Weird, huh?

I try not to take sides and sit back and watch how us humans end up acting and the way things have played out have made it like this. If it's bad then it's still Trump's fault, but if it's good then Biden gets the credit even if Trump was the one who laid the groundwork for it and if it's bad Biden gets a pass.

An example would be the COVID-19 death toll. Under Trump the Left blamed every single last death on the President, but that stopped the minute their candidate took office. As a watcher of history I have an obligation to point out that in December 2019, right when COVID-19 hit the news Trump took actions to limit travel from affected regions and also formed task forces in different areas of the Government to deal with the potential pandemic. Then for the next two months the Left simply ignored the threat and called Trump racist for acting on it. The two months were spent trying to impeach Trump and downplaying the virus. Now who do you blame, the person in charge who took action or the people in charge who ignored the threat allowing many tens of thousands to die?

The thing is the virus was a world wide pandemic that didn't choose sides. Regardless of how deadly it was it didn't choose who it infected by political preference. If you're going to blame Trump for the deaths then you'd have to blame him for the entire world's reaction and that's just not logical. Of course, as soon as Trump leaves office Biden is now credited with the work Trump did and the action of blaming the President for the COVID-19 death toll stopped dead in its tracks. What makes me a laugh is the fact that Biden now gets the credit for the vaccine, when it was Trump who cut regulations that were in place to speed up the development and the vaccination plans were all his doing.

So in the end what have I observed? How have the humans acted? It's simple - the left lied, manipulated, played the blame game and became some of the largest hypocrites I've ever seen. So your insight from your original post still stands and is more true then ever. If it's negative Trump gets blamed and if it's positive Biden gets credit and this is happening even though Biden has passed the 100 day mark where he's now responsible for both the good and the bad. 100 days? Yes, it takes about 3 months for one Presidential administrations policies to kick in after they take office and we can clearly see early signs on how the economy is going to be under Biden and it's not good (skyrocketing prices and scarce availability of goods), but of course the Left completely ignores the bad now because it's their candidate in office.

So I thank you for having the courage to speak about what you see happening around you. The truth is in low commodity these days as the ones who speak it are shunned and thrown out of social circles. We live in sad times my friend.
 
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