Buying an Electric Car

Lacius · Apr 17, 2021

I have a feeling I won't be driving my old car for more than a couple more years (I've had it for ten years), and I'm considering buying an electric car once the old one goes kaput. I've done a lot of reading on the subject, and I think purchasing a used electric car would be the best decision economically and environmentally. I'm leaning towards a Nissan Leaf, but I'm not married to the idea. I could easily pay cash for a new or used Leaf, but buying a new one doesn't appear to be worth the extra cost.

Has anyone here had any experience with owning and/or driving an electric car?
Do you like it?
Do you find things like the battery range limiting?
How's your experience using charging stations? I read they can actually be a pain.
How's your experience charging at home?
Has anyone specifically had any experience buying a used electric vehicle? If so, what was your experience like? How's the battery?

I added a poll because, well, why not?

subcon959 · Apr 17, 2021

I'm definitely interested but I feel like it's still too early. I know most people worry about the range, but for me anything over 250 miles per charge is more than enough. My main concern is the charging network just isn't built up enough here yet. When they are as ubiquitous as petrol stations (or maybe even more so) then I'll consider it time to jump in.

From what I've researched in the past though, the Leaf is an excellent choice.

hippy dave · Apr 17, 2021

I think it'll be a bit longer til we have one, but definitely the way of the future.

Lacius said:
I added a poll because, well, why not?

Slippery slope...

Lacius · Apr 17, 2021

hippy dave said:
I think it'll be a bit longer til we have one, but definitely the way of the future.

Slippery slope...

@WiiMiiSwitch is a cautionary tale.

Lacius · Apr 17, 2021

subcon959 said:
I'm definitely interested but I feel like it's still too early. I know most people worry about the range, but for me anything over 250 miles per charge is more than enough. My main concern is the charging network just isn't built up enough here yet. When they are as ubiquitous as petrol stations (or maybe even more so) then I'll consider it time to jump in.

From what I've researched in the past though, the Leaf is an excellent choice.

My daily commute is 44 miles round trip, so I'm not too concerned about range, and I figured I'd probably get by with Level 1 charging using the 120V outlet in my garage. I live in a suburban area, so there's no shortage of charging stations either.

FAST6191 · Apr 17, 2021

The service intervals is nice (turns out simple electric motor combined with modern mechanics means you lack half the fun of more old school mechanical engines and machines).
Environment wise then a) things not so great as some imagine both as a relative thing as a net effect with modern stuff, b) never trust a hippy, and c) I have no kids so I could probably run a coal power plant for my shed and still come out ahead of most others.
The repair costs are not so nice -- mouse chews through wires and oh dear (though the same is said of many modern cars I guess), give it a good crash and oh dear, while I am content to mess with electrics if I had to take it to a dealer then that gets far harder (one that taught me a lot of this engineering lark is being funnelled down the repair of electric cars route right now and it is a sham from what I have been able to put together there).
I would have to retrofit whatever house I am living in (I am not inclined to own a house so move often enough or bugger off to other parts of the country/world for months at a time) to do it properly and doing that properly and safely is not the easiest thing right now and would probably involve digging up the driveway and serious alterations, rinse and repeat for likely every house I get after that. Never mind the fun and games if it is going to be more of the 5-6 car houses I continue to live in like I have for the last however long. That is also enough that I have to consider multiple phases and maybe the supplier fuses (only get what 90A with those).
Range is a thing, and I am of the "can spend 20 hours in a car without even taking a piss" persuasion and routinely do trips of such things. I could possibly kick it 300 years ago old school and do a wagon train or enjoy the trip but if I don't necessarily have to then eh. Even more so if I bought a second hand car.
Standards and adapters and lack of replacement batteries* needs to be sorted out. There are very few technical reasons and no good ones that replacing a battery is not a trivial job for a dealer, and maybe even a petrol station forecourt. As car companies want to be tech companies and not only have DLC and on disc DLC for my car then I imagine that bright future is not going to come to pass.
I am curious to see if fuel cells come online for this sort of thing (hydrogen is a pain in the arse and methanol is too dangerous which is the two big ones likely to be useful here), and maybe even nuclear (don't know if thorium is going to quite make it and the not in my back yard set probably putting an end to that before it begins).
Resale cost is also dubious but I tend to run anything like that into the ground so eh.
Carrying capacity is something to ponder. If I were to get a vehicle then I would want a van to move machinery, furniture, building supplies and motorbikes around. Electric vans are not quite there for my purposes either. Not bad if you are a local flower delivery company but that is not me.

That said right now I have managed to dodge having to own a car so that is nice.

I wonder if in the future I will be making petrol for old cars and motorbikes. I have looked into making it on semi industrial scale and have a path to it.

Deleted member 546149 · Apr 17, 2021

Lacius said:
@WiiMiiSwitch is a cautionary tale.

I will use my software to crash the poll haters

hippy dave · Apr 17, 2021

FAST6191 said:
b) never trust a hippy,

Why I oughta...

FAST6191 · Apr 17, 2021

hippy dave said:
Why I oughta...

a) I thought the name was ironic
b) general off topic so song?

Deleted member 668561 · Apr 19, 2021

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Should also consider synthetic fuels

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

FAST6191 said:
b) never trust a hippy,

Seliph · Apr 19, 2021

I think it's a bit too early but I'm not really sure when electric cars will actually get substantially better because the technology has always been kneecapped in favor of traditional cars so fossil fuel billionaires don't lose their profits.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/16/oil-industry-electric-car-1729429

Personally, I prefer public transportation or just walking, it's better for the environment if that's what you care about. But if you're set on an electric car, things seem to be looking up and it may be viable in a few years so long as oil and gas don't stand in the way.

Lacius · Apr 20, 2021

@BeniBel
You seem to be the only one who actually owns an electric car. If you don't mind me asking, why do you dislike it?

Seliph said:
I think it's a bit too early but I'm not really sure when electric cars will actually get substantially better because the technology has always been kneecapped in favor of traditional cars so fossil fuel billionaires don't lose their profits.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/16/oil-industry-electric-car-1729429

Personally, I prefer public transportation or just walking, it's better for the environment if that's what you care about. But if you're set on an electric car, things seem to be looking up and it may be viable in a few years so long as oil and gas don't stand in the way.

Unfortunately, public transportation and walking are not viable options for my commute to work, etc. You're right that those would generally be better.

The Catboy · Apr 20, 2021

Aryia and I are considering buying an electric car in the future. We are mostly waiting for the prices to start going down and finishing off her current car payments first.

Xzi · Apr 20, 2021

After my last car was totaled by hail I was considering getting a Honda CR-Z, as it's the only hybrid I'm aware of with a stick shift. The test drive wasn't bad, but with my size the car was a fair bit more cramped than even two-door Civics, I was kinda worried about its ability to climb hills in the snow with the equivalent of 130 horses, and of course I didn't have a charging station at home. OTOH you can get them really cheap used with low mileage now, I'm talking under $10K. I ended up finding a 2011 Civic Si with leather interior, a premium sound system, and all the other goodies for about that same price though, and with only 35K miles on it, so I couldn't resist. Gets great gas mileage, and is a lot of fun to drive with 200 horsepower on a light frame.

Long story short: yeah I'll switch to all electric eventually, but I'll miss manual transmissions. Can't match that feeling of absolute control.

FAST6191 · Apr 20, 2021

Xzi said:
but I'll miss manual transmissions. Can't match that feeling of absolute control.

?
The lack of transmission in electric cars comes not from some crazy sensors automating a clutch and gearbox or a some rubber bands adjusting length according to things but because motors if designed properly are able to do basically max torque at a fair range of speeds, when you need without an intermediate step. If anything the control in such a scenario is more.

It might be more fun for you (boring and banal for me -- just about every car here is manual, and most drive them and almost all learn to drive in one) and I certainly miss engine braking when I am shoved into a point and squirt vehicle but control is a harder one to justify.
Though I am now curious what I might have to do if I broke the drive train and shoved in a manual gearbox to an electric car. They tend to be all about feedback from sensors so it could get tricky.

Xzi · Apr 21, 2021

FAST6191 said:
The lack of transmission in electric cars comes not from some crazy sensors automating a clutch and gearbox or a some rubber bands adjusting length according to things but because motors if designed properly are able to do basically max torque at a fair range of speeds, when you need without an intermediate step. If anything the control in such a scenario is more.

Yeah I understand that, but generally automatics are designed in such a way that gives you the smoothest ride possible, not necessarily the best or most enjoyable performance. Sometimes you just wanna red line it or launch in second gear. One thing electric vehicles do have a leg up on is response time when your foot hits the accelerator, though.

FAST6191 said:
Though I am now curious what I might have to do if I broke the drive train and shoved in a manual gearbox to an electric car. They tend to be all about feedback from sensors so it could get tricky.

I think there's definitely a market there, maybe not a giant one, but still. Like I said, CR-Z is the only manual hybrid I know of, and they aren't even being manufactured any more. An all-electric sports car with a manual transmission would turn some heads. You just gotta make shifting gears feel right.

AlexMCS · Apr 21, 2021

I'd buy one if they didn't cost $35k+ (I was looking into the Chevy Bolt EV). And my monthly wages are just under $1k, so....
No electric cars until I win that lottery prize.

leon315 · Apr 21, 2021

I bought a Mercedes GLC 250 in 2019, but i always considered an EV before I bought the diesel one.

Cauz there are still numbers of reasons which prevented me shifting to a fully electric one: the 1st reason is battery technology, it still has plenty rooms for improvements, if you want an EV to travel more further and support fast charger time, we need FULL SOLID STATE BATTERY, both BYD, NIO and Tesla ones are still LITIUM ones which is heavily affected by surrounding temperature (self-burn or low autonomy in winter). probably we won't get semi-solid state battery before 2022-2023.

There's another important thing is Charging station for EV, honestly both Europe and USA are still very dependent to fossil fuel, and are far behind China which is very progressive in favor of EVs, we don't have many charging stations nationwide , you should really be worried if the battery dies and there's no charging station nearby.

For now i'm waiting EV makers to improve battery technology and Italian govt to pass more more favorable EV policies to encourage companies to install more charging stations next 5 years.

EDIT: A Tesla takes 30min to charge 50% of total battery, but remain 50% takes 90min to get fully charged, so generally the battery is a BIG PROBLEM for long journey.

AlexMCS · Apr 21, 2021

leon315 said:
I bought a Mercedes GLC 250 in 2019, but i always considered an EV before I bought the diesel one.

Cauz there are still numbers of reasons which prevented me shifting to a fully electric one: the 1st reason is battery technology, it still has plenty rooms for improvements, if you want an EV to travel more further and support fast charger time, we need FULL SOLID STATE BATTERY, both BYD, NIO and Tesla ones are still LITIUM ones which is heavily affected by surrounding temperature (self-burn or low autonomy in winter). probably we won't get semi-solid state battery before 2022-2023.

There's another important thing is Charging station for EV, honestly both Europe and USA are still very dependent to fossil fuel, and are far behind China which is very progressive in favor of EVs, we don't have many charging stations nationwide , you should really be worried if the battery dies and there's no charging station nearby.

For now i'm waiting EV makers to improve battery technology and Italian govt to pass more more favorable EV policies to encourage companies to install more charging stations next 5 years.

EDIT: A Tesla takes 30min to charge 50% of total battery, but remain 50% takes 90min to get fully charged, so generally the battery is a BIG PROBLEM for long journey.

It's only a problem if you can't plan your route.
I've never even considered using charging stations for "my" EV. Charging it at home is more than enough.

What I think is glaringly lacking though, is embedded solar panels on EVs. Where the heck are those???

Viri · Apr 21, 2021

Prices need to go down, tech needs to improve, and charging really needs to be quicker. I'd like to be able to charge my car within a few minutes. I'll consider it when those happen.

Buying an Electric Car

How do you feel about electric cars?

I own an electric car, and I like it.

I own an electric car, and I dislike it.

I don't own an electric car, but I actively want to buy one someday.

I don't own an electric car, but I might buy one someday if the cost or technology improves.

I don't own an electric car, and I have no desire to ever own an electric car.

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