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Covid-19 vaccine

Will you get the vaccine?

  • Yes

    Votes: 500 67.1%
  • No

    Votes: 245 32.9%

  • Total voters
    745
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BlazeMasterBM

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Most states already had a 14-day quarantine rule in place for those traveling across state lines. Proof of vaccination just allows you to skip that.

A virus doesn't care whether you trust it or not. Surely you've at least had one friend or family member catch it by now. If not, you're extremely fortunate and should desire to keep your household infection-free.

This probably won't be the last pandemic I see in my lifetime, and so the chances of someone your age seeing another are even higher. Lots of factors play into that, two in particular being the way we treat the Earth and our livestock.
I don't mean trust it in that way XD I mean I don't entirely believe in its legitimacy. My dad caught "it", but showed cold symptoms. Not saying it's a total fraud, but I know even in places like Estonia the government has been listing anything and everything as covid to keep the numbers up.
 

Xzi

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I don't mean trust it in that way XD I mean I don't entirely believe in its legitimacy. My dad caught "it", but showed cold symptoms. Not saying it's a total fraud, but I know even in places like Estonia the government has been listing anything and everything as covid to keep the numbers up.
My symptoms were also pretty mild, except for two days where I felt like my lung capacity was reduced by about half. If anything that just makes COVID even more fearsome, since a person can have no symptoms whatsoever and still pass it to a person who then dies. The common cold has never come anywhere close to killing 500,000 Americans in a single year as long as I've been alive.

As for fudging the numbers, that's almost always done to make governments look like they're handling the pandemic better than they are in reality. For example, North Korea, which continues to claim it has zero cases. Nobody stands to gain anything by inflating their COVID case count.
 
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Lacius

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I don't mean trust it in that way XD I mean I don't entirely believe in its legitimacy. My dad caught "it", but showed cold symptoms. Not saying it's a total fraud, but I know even in places like Estonia the government has been listing anything and everything as covid to keep the numbers up.
COVID-19 exists, and it has killed approximately 562,000 Americans, including two of my family members.

I understand a person taking calculated risks regarding their own health, and I understand having irrational fears about vaccines or needles in general, but the decision to engage in conspiratorial thinking and not get vaccinated puts other people at risk. There is a moral imperative to be vaccinated as soon as one can be vaccinated. Your choices do not only affect yourself.
 

BlazeMasterBM

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COVID-19 exists, and it has killed approximately 562,000 Americans, including two of my family members.

I understand a person taking calculated risks regarding their own health, and I understand having irrational fears about vaccines or needles in general, but the decision to engage in conspiratorial thinking and not get vaccinated puts other people at risk. There is a moral imperative to be vaccinated as soon as one can be vaccinated.
I wouldn't consider it "conspirital" but I don't think it is the right decision to be vaxxed asap or even at all. I wouldn't call my fear irrational either. Especially when you consider the very minimal (and non-existent) coverage the media has given negative side effects of the vaccine, as well as Facebook and Twitter's removal of any vaccine-suspicious posts, as well as all of them being pro-vax passionately.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

My symptoms were also pretty mild, except for two days where I felt like my lung capacity was reduced by about half. If anything that just makes COVID even more fearsome, since a person can have no symptoms whatsoever and still pass it to a person who then dies. The common cold has never come anywhere close to killing 500,000 Americans in a single year as long as I've been alive.

As for fudging the numbers, that's almost always done to make governments look like they're handling the pandemic better than they are in reality. For example, North Korea, which continues to claim it has zero cases. Nobody stands to gain anything by inflating their COVID case count.
I'm not saying that covid is the same as common cold, but rather the gov labels common colds and other like illnesses as covid. The symptoms they've been listing can align with any existing illness and aren't really new. Just saying, it's a little fishy.
And let's just say.... companies and a certain country who controls flow of media in America HAVE profited off of the disease.
 

Lacius

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I wouldn't consider it "conspirital" but I don't think it is the right decision to be vaxxed asap or even at all. I wouldn't call my fear irrational either. Especially when you consider the very minimal (and non-existent) coverage the media has given negative side effects of the vaccine, as well as Facebook and Twitter's removal of any vaccine-suspicious posts, as well as all of them being pro-vax passionately.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


I'm not saying that covid is the same as common cold, but rather the gov labels common colds and other like illnesses as covid. The symptoms they've been listing can align with any existing illness and aren't really new. Just saying, it's a little fishy.
And let's just say.... companies and a certain country who controls flow of media in America HAVE profited off of the disease.
COVID-19 is a very infectious and potentially deadly disease. The vaccine has been demonstrated to be effective. The vaccine has been demonstrated to be safe. Even taking into consideration the possible side effects, the vaccine is many times safer than the risk of contracting COVID-19. The science is very clear, and saying "I don't trust the pandemic is real" or "I don't trust the vaccine" when both statements fly in the face of the science is, respectfully, conspiratorial, and this kind of conspiratorial thinking is literally and demonstrably going to get people killed.
 

BlazeMasterBM

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COVID-19 is a very infectious and potentially deadly disease. The vaccine has been demonstrated to be effective. The vaccine has been demonstrated to be safe. Even taking into consideration the possible side effects, the vaccine is many times safer than the risk of contracting COVID-19. The science is very clear, and saying "I don't trust the pandemic is real" or "I don't trust the vaccine" when both statements fly in the face of the science is, respectfully, conspiratorial.
I don't believe the science.
 

Xzi

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I'm not saying that covid is the same as common cold, but rather the gov labels common colds and other like illnesses as covid.
Yeah that's a theory I've heard before, but firstly, it isn't government data, it's an aggregate of hospital data, and secondly, the question you have to ask yourself is: why? What benefit would anybody gain from that? The answer is none. Occasionally there is a misdiagnoses or false positives show up, yes. If you watch your local news you can see daily case counts go up, and very occasionally go down because of a false positive or something along those lines. People are imperfect, but that's not really a conspiracy.

And let's just say.... companies and a certain country who controls flow of media in America HAVE profited off of the disease.
In capitalist America the rich (corporations) get richer, that's not really a conspiracy either. It just means time is moving forward. I'd recommend wasting less energy searching for someone to blame for natural phenomena, and dedicate more to figuring out how we get past this whole pandemic phase as quickly as possible.
 

BlazeMasterBM

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Yeah that's a theory I've heard before, but firstly, it isn't government data, it's an aggregate of hospital data, and secondly, the question you have to ask yourself is: why? What benefit would anybody gain from that? The answer is none. Occasionally there is a misdiagnoses or false positives show up, yes. If you watch your local news you can see daily case counts go up, and very occasionally go down because of a false positive or something along those lines. People are imperfect, but that's not really a conspiracy.


In capitalist America the rich (corporations) get richer, that's not really a conspiracy either. It just means time is moving forward. I'd recommend wasting less energy searching for someone to blame for natural phenomena, and dedicate more to figuring out how we get past this whole pandemic phase as quickly as possible.
It's not much of a capitalist problem, and it would be 10x worse in socialism anyway. I agree, there's not much we can do even if the truth is revealed about who is behind it. Which is the sad part.
 

Xzi

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It's not much of a capitalist problem, and it would be 10x worse in socialism anyway.
Our ridiculous wage and wealth disparity is unquestionably an unchecked capitalism problem. And corporations did see greater profits during the pandemic while small businesses suffered most. But that doesn't mean I jump to the conclusion that Amazon engineered COVID-19. Occam's Razor is an important tool to use often.

I agree, there's not much we can do even if the truth is revealed about who is behind it. Which is the sad part.
Then you don't agree, because I just stated it's a natural phenomena. There are all sorts of "new" viruses and diseases out in the world, just waiting for permafrost to melt or for people to eat the wrong insect/animal. Like I said, this won't be the last pandemic you or I see in our lifetimes. At the rate climate change is moving, we can be certain of that.
 

Alexander1970

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https://www.krone.at/2387367

His disability is thought to have resulted from a Vaccination when he was a baby. Since then,Franz-Joseph Huainigg, ex-VP spokesman for the disabled and ORF commissioner for accessibility,has not had himself "pricked" - until now.

How desperate must our Austrian Government be,to do SUCH a Thing in Public....
Honestly,when you read this,you HAVE to get vaccinated....

Huainigg: "The decision whether to get vaccinated or not is a very personal one. But this is a vaccination recommendation to all those who are still hesitating."

Yes,you have to trust this Vaccination Recommendation from Mr. Huainigg.
 
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Jiolo_Miles

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I think the worlds reaction to this virus was way overboard. Here in the United States the democratic party masterfully use it to ram an unpopular candidate, some elected officials got drunk with power and practically ruled as petty dictators, a lot of people lost their jobs, businesses close and civil unrest plagued many cities. I'm not taking the vaccine because my chances of dying are almost zero. where I live, I'm more likely to get rob, murder or die in a car accident but no one is hysterically forcing me to stay home because of it.
 
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plasturion

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Nice, favourite quotes of our heroes defending us and our safety.
Health minister - Niedzielski: "There will only be more biological threats. What's more: they will be more and more dangerous and the world will react to them differently than it has so far. Sanitary inspections will be one of the best equipped institutions in all countries.",
"If you ask me if we will go back to pre-pandemic times, then no. We will not be back. Never!"

I must admit that this man has a real trust in medicine's development progress.
 

Lacius

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For the record, the Johnson & Johnson side-effects being discussed in the news right now are extremely rare, and the vaccine is still relatively safe, particularly when contrasted with contracting COVID-19. The pause is good because these concerns about blood clots need to be explicitly acknowledged so people are aware of them, look out for them, and know how to treat them. In other words, the concern isn't so much the potential side effect exists; the concern is that there's transparency about what the possible side-effects are.
 

Xzi

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J&J is being halted in a few select areas, but in most states they simply ran out of it. I knew it was gonna be in short supply because of the early manufacturing hiccups, so I'm glad I got it the second it was made available here. Six more days to full protection.
 
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Alexander1970

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For the record, the Johnson & Johnson side-effects being discussed in the news right now are extremely rare, and the vaccine is still relatively safe...

Please explain that our (Experts) in the EU / in Europe....:(


Additonal Information:

https://orf.at/stories/3209053/
(German)

J&J delays vaccine shipment in Europe

U.S. pharmaceutical company Johnson & Johnson (J&J) is delaying the shipment of its CoV vaccine in Europe. It had reviewed reports of cerebral vein thrombosis and "proactively" decided to take the step, it said Tuesday - just on the day the manufacturer's first doses arrived in Austria.

"Until there is clarity about any side effects, these doses will not be delivered to the vaccination centers and will not be vaccinated," the health ministry said of the 16,800 doses that arrived in Austria. A total of 2.5 million were ordered. J&J had only begun shipping its vaccine, approved in March, to EU states on Monday.
 

notimp

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Please explain that our (Experts) in the EU / in Europe....:(


Additonal Information:

https://orf.at/stories/3209053/
(German)

J&J delays vaccine shipment in Europe

U.S. pharmaceutical company Johnson & Johnson (J&J) is delaying the shipment of its CoV vaccine in Europe. It had reviewed reports of cerebral vein thrombosis and "proactively" decided to take the step, it said Tuesday - just on the day the manufacturer's first doses arrived in Austria.

"Until there is clarity about any side effects, these doses will not be delivered to the vaccination centers and will not be vaccinated," the health ministry said of the 16,800 doses that arrived in Austria. A total of 2.5 million were ordered. J&J had only begun shipping its vaccine, approved in March, to EU states on Monday.
Austria has gotten almost no J&J so far afaik - one recent shipment were 3600 units, which is nothing - afair the week before the J&J export stop.

You also have to differentiate between risk of someone dying/becoming seriously injured because of the vaccine and just the general calculation for how many less people will die if just you give out the vaccine.

Just to give you a sense of what we are talking about - the vector vaccines (of which J&J is one) lead to an about 500x higher likelyhood of one specific (rare) form of thrombosis - leading to 20 people throughout germany being suspected to have gotten that - and about two of them dying (thats out of 15 million who have gotten at least one shot - most of which were AZ (the vector vaccine where this 500x thing was noted).

As a result giving it to people entirely was put on hold for a few days, while the problem was researched, then a treatment for the problem was created, then using the vaccine again was greenlit, but only for people older than 60. Calculations in the background are concerning "potentially affected 'good' life years" - so out of ethical concernes you only give it to your 60+ years population.

Remember this is still while in aggregate saving many more lives through the vaccine - issue, the people who might die because of it, might not be the same that would have died from Covid -- so as a result you are _required_ to at least mitigate that number. (Thats the few days where giving it out entirely was paused - until a remedy was found (issue you need to be in hospital for the remedy :) ).)

Thats the logic that should be behind the pause, and the eventual continuation.

On J&J we are at the pause stage. US has more options, because potentially they could press forward with Pfizer and Moderna (not showing that (very, very rare statistically) issue, but at a significantly later date of most people getting vaccinated in the US.
--

In states with many fewer people (like Austria), you might not stop giving it out at all, and might not even start giving it out only to the old folks (less potential good life years harmed), simply because statistically you wouldnt see even one death, or only one death from the complication. This should be (I'm guessing) the cause why austria didnt stop.
-

"But you told people, that it was tested and safe!" Issue - the entire testing population, was tens of thousands of people, but likely too small for the issue to show up in statistics, remember, for germany the risk of this occuring from the AZ vaccine might end up being around 1:750000. :)

Statistics. They are fun.

So you only see it in wide roleout, and have to react to it in wide roleout, which the US are doing with J&J currently.

And germany did with AZ a few weeks back.

And austria didnt at all (react), because it has too small of a population for it to matter statistically (doesnt mean you'd not get a handful of cases, much lower deaths caused by it (if its causal is an entire discussion in itself - but at least some notable voices currently say - probably, yes)).



All of this is specualative - but usually about how this should normally go -- I dont know if there are PR reasons for stopping as well. (Public starts to talk about why did they stop, reaction is "they are looking after us" as it gets discussed, and people notice, that the issue is very small - statistically, therefore more people might get vaccinated overall -- I dont know.

Answer - I dont know. But those are my guesses. ;)
 
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