Some Dr.Seuss books taken down

MadonnaProject · Mar 5, 2021

Scott_pilgrim said:
I'm not white, actually

Then act with some dignity, less entitlement and a bit of respect for the truth and fact.

Stop feigning white privilege and ignorance.

Seliph · Mar 5, 2021

MadonnaProject said:
Caricatures are often exaggerated, its what makes them "caricatures". This applies to all races. Look at popeye, or any other cartoon. In fact it also applies to animals. If you find it cringe thats on you. People who are grown up, tend to develop thicker skin and realise there's real problems to life.

Of course but these characters are based on racist caricatures specifically designed to dehumanize Black and Asian people. This is very obvious, especially in the context of the time. I could show you some examples but I'd rather not make this thread even worse.

I never said it was racist because they were caricatures, I just acknowledged that they were racist caricatures. Obviously, not all caricatures are racist.

MadonnaProject · Mar 5, 2021

0xFFFFFFFF said:
While I'm all for a censor-less landscape for art and discourse, children's entertainment should be regulated to protect our young impressionable minds. Kids don't have the skills yet to separate a racist stereotype from very useful life lesson.

Leaving this content in is just kinda bad, at least in its current state. It would just cause more people to get the wrong idea about people that they don't know. We don't need more of you.

Only there are studies which show children have an innate natural bias towards gender and race.

When a kid asks you "Daddy why does my friend Kelly have different eyes to mine" You don't jump on them and say "REEEE RACISSS", You calmly explain to them "Kelly's eyes are different because she is "x" and they are beautiful in their own way".

Oh wait, that would mean no drama and a missed opportunity to signal your virtue and highlight another's "ignorance".

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Seliph said:
Of course but these characters are based on racist caricatures specifically designed to dehumanize Black and Asian people. This is very obvious, especially in the context of the time. I could show you some examples but I'd rather not make this thread even worse.

I never said it was racist because they were caricatures, I just acknowledged that they were racist caricatures. Obviously, not all caricatures are racist.

I am african AND asian. I don't feel dehumanised by some silly sketches, because I know my worth. Its a part of history which we can harken back to and say "oh look, that was then and now we don't say things like that".

But what do I care. Do as you want. I've wasted enough time on this ridiculous topic.

Julie_Pilgrim · Mar 5, 2021

MadonnaProject said:
Only there are studies which show children have an innate natural bias towards gender and race.

When a kid asks you "Daddy why does my friend Kelly have different eyes to mine" You don't jump on them and say "REEEE RACISSS", You calmly explain to them "Kelly's eyes are different because she is "x" and they are beautiful in their own way".

Oh wait, that would mean no drama and a missed opportunity to signal your virtue and highlight another's "ignorance".

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I am african AND asian. I don't feel dehumanised. Its a part of history which we can harken back to and say "oh look, that was then and now we don't say things like that".

But what do I care. Do as you want. I've wasted enough time on this ridiculous topic.

Fuck it, I'll bite the bait, you see, the thing is, we don't teach kids about Asians using caricatures

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we teach them about Asians using *gasp* actual Asian people

MadonnaProject · Mar 5, 2021

Scott_pilgrim said:
we teach them about Asians using *gasp* actual Asian people

That quite literally was my example. My point either went over your head or under your radar. I've said what I wanted. Ciao.

Julie_Pilgrim · Mar 5, 2021

MadonnaProject said:
That quite literally was my example. My point either went over your head or under your radar. I've said what I wanted. Ciao.

I'm aware, only thing is that the post you're responding to is saying we shouldn't put caricatures in children's books, so it's not completely out of the water to think you think we should put caricatures in children's books

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MadonnaProject said:
I am african AND asian. I don't feel dehumanised by some silly sketches, because I know my worth. Its a part of history which we can harken back to and say "oh look, that was then and now we don't say things like that".

Funny you say that since it is seems to contrast your previous statement

MadonnaProject said:
Heaven forbid we say japanese and chinese have eyes a certain way. Heaven forbid we say african tribes might have certain features. Afterall, we live in a day and age where facts are just not acceptable.

Gr8 b8 m8, I r8 8

Shenrai · Mar 5, 2021

0xFFFFFFFF said:
While I'm all for a censor-less landscape for art and discourse, children's entertainment should be regulated to protect our young impressionable minds. Kids don't have the skills yet to separate a racist stereotype from very useful life lesson.

Leaving this content in is just kinda bad, at least in its current state. It would just cause more people to get the wrong idea about people that they don't know. We don't need more of you.

I don't really understand this. These books have been read to children for quite a bit of time and I sincerely doubt any child looked at the pictures and thought anything more than "gee what funny looking creatures". Only until they grow up do they see any sort of caricature being displayed here. Impressionable minds only happen when the concept is being blatantly forced upon their throats.

Seliph · Mar 5, 2021

Shenrai said:
I don't really understand this. These books have been read to children for quite a bit of time and I sincerely doubt any child looked at the pictures and thought anything more than "gee what funny looking creatures". Only until they grow up do they see any sort of caricature being displayed here. Impressionable minds only happen when the concept is being blatantly forced upon their throats.

The thing is that if you're raised in an environment where racist caricatures are normalized then that shapes how you view those caricatures later in life. If caricatures like this are "funny looking creatures" to you as a kid, would you be able to understand later in life that when one of these caricatures is used it is used to harm and otherize people not like you? Otherwise, you'll have people defending stuff worse than this like the Aunt Jemima lady logo which was a racist caricature of a real woman whose life was ruined by the company that profited off her image.

It's very important to learn early on what is and isn't okay otherwise you'll carry your ingrained biases into adulthood.

It's like kids chanting "smear the queer" and other things on the playground. Sure they might not understand what it means but just letting kids say things like that uncritically makes it seem like it's okay to say things that are homophobic and actively alienates people who really are gay and really do face violence because of it.

Shenrai · Mar 5, 2021

Seliph said:
The thing is that if you're raised in an environment where racist caricatures are normalized then that shapes how you view those caricatures later in life. If caricatures like this are "funny looking creatures" to you as a kid, would you be able to understand later in life that when one of these caricatures is used it is used to harm and otherize people not like you? Otherwise, you'll have people defending stuff worse than this like the Aunt Jemima lady logo which was a racist caricature of a real woman whose life was ruined by the company that profited off her image.

It's very important to learn early on what is and isn't okay otherwise you'll carry your ingrained biases into adulthood.

Would this issue be more aligned with parenting than anything? Of course I could not differentiate this without guidance but I had parents who taught me early on. Do we really need to replace parenting by not having the materials be shown to children to begin with?

Seliph · Mar 5, 2021

Shenrai said:
Would this issue be more aligned with parenting than anything? Of course I could not differentiate this without guidance but I had parents who taught me early on. Do we really need to replace parenting by not having the materials be shown to children to begin with?

Why not? I don't see how material like this adds to anything. It's not productive, creative or interesting to use these tired old depictions. Of course parents can guide their children in regards to material like this but some parents won't do that or don't care to do that, simply getting rid of racist depictions of people is super easy to do and doesn't harm anyone. The point of children's media is to be enriching and uncritically showing kids material like this in the media you create is counterintuitive to that goal.

Cylent1 · Mar 5, 2021

oh well! we get what we lazy peasants get!
tomorrow will be hamburgers. And next year Facebook and Twitter will be our Government!

Seliph · Mar 5, 2021

Cylent1 said:
.....and you all thought Trump was Hitler!
You all need to be smacked upside the head whoever voted for the drunk on power asshat dictators into office!

You do realize this was done by a private company? Not the Democrats? I can't stand Liberals but at least know what you're talking about

Cylent1 · Mar 5, 2021

I do realize that but it is the Democratic base pushing for the cancel culture!

Crazynoob458 · Mar 5, 2021

this place became the politics forum

Seliph · Mar 5, 2021

It's just the same thing over and over again every day lmao

Cylent1 · Mar 5, 2021

Crazynoob458 said:
this place became the politics forum

And the "You be better off switchingfrom SXOS to Atmos because it's way better" forum!

Julie_Pilgrim · Mar 5, 2021

Crazynoob458 said:
this place became the politics forum

We haven't insulted lgbtq people yet, so not completely

Shenrai · Mar 5, 2021

Seliph said:
Why not? I don't see how material like this adds to anything. It's not productive, creative or interesting to use these tired old depictions. Of course parents can guide their children in regards to material like this but some parents won't do that or don't care to do that, simply getting rid of racist depictions of people is super easy to do and doesn't harm anyone. The point of children's media is to be enriching and uncritically showing kids material like this in the media you create is counterintuitive to that goal.

I guess I kind of just feel annoyed that a big part of my childhood, and I assume others, is being rejected because of some aspect that has not actually caused any particular harm whatsoever than what an imaginary scenario could be. There are other solutions that could have been done in its stead. I understand your point, however.

Seliph · Mar 5, 2021

Scott_pilgrim said:
We haven't insulted lgbtq people yet, so not completely

God I hate gay people so much

PityOnU · Mar 5, 2021

Yeah, this forum has always been pretty toxic, tbh. You wouldn't think that it would be, considering gamers have traditionally been nerds on the fringes of society. You would think that we all would have learned from that and used it to make a generally positive space.

LOL nyet

Just tired of people shrieking at both ends of the spectrum anymore. Hoping politics in the USA will go back to being quiet(er) now. Please I'm so sick of this shit...

EDIT: ----------------------------------------------------

Only semi-related but I think of this clip from Star Trek whenever any of these political topics come up anymore...

Some Dr.Seuss books taken down

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