Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

smf · Jan 23, 2021

Foxi4 said:
The trajectory was going to change regardless as vaccination rates have been ramping up every day.

Not quickly enough and with a long incubation period and then a long time before people end up in hospital and then a long time before they did, no matter what you do there is going to be a time delay between what you do and the effect.

All the deaths of the next couple of months are already baked in.

Mike_Swe said:
.

You appear to not understand what he's saying.

What Joe Biden is going to do today will have an effect in a few months & not before.

All Trump could offer were lies, but covid19 isn't stopped by lying to it, insulting it or suing it. So Trump was confused how to deal with it.

Mike_Swe said:
LOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLL

Why are you laughing at reality?

Mike_Swe · Jan 23, 2021

Thank god I am not from America and can laugh at your shitshow :-D

Lacius · Jan 23, 2021

Mike_Swe said:
Thank god I am not from America and can laugh at your shitshow :-D

The shitshow ended Janauary 20.

Hanafuda · Jan 23, 2021

Lacius said:
You should check out my recent posts about how there was no Trump vaccine distribution plan, and the vaccine distribution in this country was as much a logistical failure as it was a moral failure.

Yeah just ignore 40 million vaccines distributed before the inauguration and that CNN's being a useful mouthpiece for the Biden transition.

Here's the pdf he linked:
https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/strategy-for-distributing-covid-19-vaccine.pdf

Mike_Swe · Jan 23, 2021

Lacius said:
The shitshow ended Janauary 20.

No its still going on very clear from this thread, thank you for the show!

Hanafuda · Jan 23, 2021

Mike_Swe said:
No its still going on very clear from this thread, thank you for the show!

You ain't seen nothin' yet.

Lacius · Jan 23, 2021

Hanafuda said:
Yeah just ignore 40 million vaccines distributed before the inauguration and that CNN's being a useful mouthpiece for the Biden transition.

You should go back in this thread to my posts (with links) on the failings of the Trump vaccine distribution "plan." It was fucked up bad, and a lot fewer people have been vaccinated because of it. This will cause people to die.

Mike_Swe · Jan 23, 2021

Hanafuda said:
You ain't seen nothin' yet.

I hope so this is fun.

smf · Jan 23, 2021

Hanafuda said:
Yeah just ignore 40 million vaccines distributed before the inauguration and that CNN's being a useful mouthpiece for the Biden transition.

Yeah, just ignore science.

Vaccinating 40 million people out of 328.2 million people in 37 days will probably not have made a significant impact. Trump only ordered enough vaccine for 200 million people.

We don't know what effect the vaccine will have on transmission as it is believed you can still get covid 19 after having the vaccine, it's just less likely to kill you.

The only way to make any kind of dent is to wear masks, socially distance, etc.

Lacius · Jan 23, 2021

smf said:
We don't know what effect the vaccine will have on transmission as it is believed you can still get covid 19 after having the vaccine, it's just less likely to kill you.

The only way to make any kind of dent is to wear masks, socially distance, etc.

We know that the more people who are vaccinated, the less COVID-19 will be transmitted. The vaccine offers approximately 95% effectiveness against contracting the virus. The effectiveness of the vaccine is likely to last at least a few years.

Hanafuda · Jan 23, 2021

smf said:
Vaccinating 40 million people out of 328.2 million people in 37 days will probably not have made a significant impact.

Never said that alone was enough to make a significant impact. But it IS faster than Biden's own goal/benchmark of 100 million in 100 days. But apparently, that was "fucked up bad."

notimp · Jan 23, 2021

What do you all have a problem with?

- One of the two vaccines greenlit 'fastest', because it could be produced fastest (mRNA) - was actually produced in Germany.
- But Germany doesnt get the early benefits, because the US payed tripple
- None of which will matter in two months if conventional vaccines get greenlit that are easier to produce
- Issue - those might currently not be effective against some of the mutations already in play.

If you want to get off on a statistic that will not be relevant two months from now - and thereby not in terms of a 'herd immunity equivalent':

People vaccinated as a percentage of population.

So what the heck where the last 10 pages about?

Also - people SERIOUSLY have problems thinking in non linear terms. Amount of vaccine available correlates with factories able to produce it - which for mRNA is flipping limited, but for conventional vaccines is not. So overproduction starts in two to three months (because we also have to produce for the rest of the world).

If those vaccines then also protect against all mutations currently in play - is another question.

SG854 · Jan 23, 2021

notimp said:
What do you all have a problem with?

- One of the two vaccines greenlit 'fastest', because it could be produced fastest (mRNA) - was actually produced in Germany.
- But Germany doesnt get the early benefits, because the US payed tripple
- None of which will matter in two months if conventional vaccines get greenlit that are easier to produce
- Issue - those might currently not be effective against some of the mutations already in play.

If you want to get off on a statistic that will not be relevant two months from now - and thereby not in terms of a 'herd immunity equivalent':

People vaccinated as a percentage of population.

So what the heck where the last 10 pages about?

So who's right Lacius or Hanafuda?

smf · Jan 23, 2021

Hanafuda said:
Never said that alone was enough to make a significant impact. But it IS faster than Biden's own goal/benchmark of 100 million in 100 days.

Well you need to compare it to how quickly Trump would have delivered those next 100 million shots.

And it's not safe to assume it would be the same as the previous 40 million, due to it being harder to vaccinate some people more than others. If you look at the figures they peak a few times, there is no guarantee there is going to be the same low hanging fruit.

Moderna and Pfizer needs to be kept really cold and there are limits to how far it can be moved. The oxford (astrazeneca) vaccine doesn't have that issue, but the us hasn't approved it yet.

You are really comparing apples and oranges.

Lacius · Jan 23, 2021

Hanafuda said:
Never said that alone was enough to make a significant impact. But it IS faster than Biden's own goal/benchmark of 100 million in 100 days. But apparently, that was "fucked up bad."

See my previous post on the matter, dude:

Lacius said:
The facts are clear that there was effectively no vaccine distribution plan. If we want to discuss technicalities that mean the Biden people have to remake 99% of the vaccine "plan" vs. 100% of the vaccine "plan," I'm not particularly interested. Governors cannot even come up with their own plans if they're constantly being misled about the number of vaccine doses they're getting, which is what the Trump admin did. The Trump administration vowed to release reserve doses that didn't even existed. I'd say the distribution plan was a complete fuck-up, but there was no plan to speak of.

States told by federal government they will receive fewer Pfizer vaccine doses next week, sparking confusion

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/17/politics/pfizer-vaccine-fewer-doses-states-confusion/index.html

Vaccine reserve was exhausted when Trump administration vowed to release it, dashing hopes of expanded access

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/15/trump-vaccine-reserve-used-up/

Regarding the first article from December, the Trump people also blatantly lied about why states were receiving fewer vaccines from Pfizer. The Trump admin said it was because Pfizer was having issues, but it turns out Pfizer was doing just fine, and they just weren't told where to ship vaccines by the federal government. There was no coordination plan. There was no distribution plan.

Covid-19 Vaccine Leaders Waited Months to Approve Distribution Plans

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-...ths-to-approve-distribution-plans-11610737935

State and local officials clamored for months for federal guidance on a vaccine distribution strategy, but leaders of Operation Warp Speed "waited more than two months to approve a plan to distribute and administer Covid-19 vaccines ... leaving states with little time to implement a mass-vaccination campaign amid a coronavirus surge."

notimp said:
- Issue - those might currently not be effective against some of the mutations already in play.

While the vaccines might not offer the same level of resistance against the new strains, there's evidence the vaccines are still at least somewhat effective against them.

SG854 said:
So who's right Lacius or Hanafuda?

Do you have to ask?

notimp · Jan 23, 2021

SG854 said:
So who's right Lacius or Hanafuda?

Both a bit - I guess, but doesnt matter - because, the real ramp up comes with Astra Zeneca and Johnson and Johnson vaccines greenlit.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/22/health/covid-19-vaccines-johnson-and-johnson-next/index.html

Which arent mRNA and therefore easier to produce. US payed tripple the price for early allocations of the mRNA vaccines, but those cant be produced at scale. So if you are rich old guy in the US everything went pogers. If you look at it from a societal perspective, 'whos ahead now' almost doesnt matter. (Doesnt impact, when stores can open again, f.e.)

That said, if Astra Zeneca and Johnson and Johnson vaccines f.e. dont protect against mutations already in play -- right strategy would have been to invest massively into scaling up mRNA vaccine production (which is shown to likely protect against the new british strain as well - unknown, how likely against the new brasilian (?) (sorry blanking on the origin) one) (But that was also the 'most risky' vaccine (as clinical trials for other vaccines of that kind were already underway before Covid, but its 'new tech'.).

SG854 · Jan 23, 2021

notimp said:
Also - people SERIOUSLY have problems thinking in non linear terms. Amount of vaccine available correlates with factories able to produce it - which for mRNA is flipping limited, but for conventional vaccines is not. So overproduction starts in two to three months (because we also have to produce for the rest of the world).

If those vaccines then also protect against all mutations currently in play - is another question.

Thats true, same reason GPU stock is low.

Lacius said:
See my previous post on the matter, dude:

While the vaccines might not offer the same level of resistance against the new strains, there's evidence the vaccines are still at least somewhat effective against them.

Do you have to ask?

Yes I do. I like people to go into more detail and elaborate.

smf · Jan 23, 2021

SG854 said:
So who's right Lacius or Hanafuda?

Hanafuda seems blinded by loyalty to Trump and hate of Biden.

SG854 · Jan 23, 2021

notimp said:
Both a bit - I guess, but doesnt matter - because, the real ramp up comes with Astra Zeneca and Johnson and Johnson vaccines greenlit.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/22/health/covid-19-vaccines-johnson-and-johnson-next/index.html

Which arent mRNA and therefore easier to produce. US payed tripple the price for early allocations of the mRNA vaccines, but those cant be produced at scale. So if you are rich old guy in the US everything went pogers. If you look at it from a societal perspective, 'whos ahead now' almost doesnt matter. (Doesnt impact, when stores can open again, f.e.)

That said, if Astra Zeneca and Johnson and Johnson vaccines f.e. dont protect against mutations already in play -- right strategy would have been to invest massively into scaling up mRNA vaccine production (which is shown to likely protect against the new british strain as well - unknown, how likely against the new brasilian (?) (sorry blanking on the origin) one) (But that was also the 'most risky' vaccine (as clinical trials for other vaccines of that kind were already underway before Covid, but its 'new tech'.).

I heard current vaccines will be enough to fight mutations. They aren't mutated enough to be vastly different.

Mutations will cause the virus to be less deadly. Virus needs a host to survive. If the host keeps dying it decreases virus chance of survival. I can only evolve to be less deadly.

smf · Jan 23, 2021

Lacius said:
While the vaccines might not offer the same level of resistance against the new strains, there's evidence the vaccines are still at least somewhat effective against them.

There are some reports there is a 50% reduction in efficacy & they already didn't stop you catching covid19.

Vaccination isn't going to end this, no matter what Trump said it isn't just going to disappear.

The UK government is investing in a production facility that will be able to produce enough vaccine for everyone in the UK within 6 months. It's hoped it will be open by christmas.

We're going to be vaccinating everyone every year for the foreseeable future.

SG854 said:
I heard current vaccines will be enough to fight mutations. They aren't mutated enough to be vastly different.

Unlikely, even the mutations we have now. Let alone what mutations we might have in another couple of months.

SG854 said:
Mutations will cause the virus to be less deadly. Virus needs a host to survive. If the host keeps dying it decreases virus chance of survival. I can only evolve to be less deadly.

No, not true at all. Most people don't get symptoms, of those who do then most don't die and it takes a while. The current mutations don't actually increase the numbers of death by a huge amount relatively speaking. We are still a long way from covid19 from mutating to be something more like ebola with a short period before everyone gets really sick and dies. covid19 is a much more effective virus than ebola.

It could become both more deadly and more transmissible. It's too early to be 100% sure, because the mutations have only recently taken hold. But that is what the early results in the UK appear like.

Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

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