Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

Foxi4 · Jan 23, 2021

Cryoraptor said:
Maybe, but outright saying the current COVID situation is Biden's fault is frankly idiotic. And yes, some on this thread and elsewhere have said that. They are probably trolls, or at least, I hope so.

I don't think Biden is responsible for anything at all just yet, he's been in office for all of three days. With that said, we've seen the media turn up the temperature for 4 years, so I sure hope that they'll treat Biden and his gaffes with the same level of pedantic scrutiny that Trump had to deal with. Something tells me that won't be the case. Y'know, like when Biden announced a 100-day mask challenge in federal buildings... while not wearing a mask in federal buildings. When Jen Psaki was asked about that during the press briefing, she dismissed it as Biden celebrating his victory... which is apparently on-going since she wasn't wearing one either. This is starting to look like No Nut November for masks, everybody's getting caught slipping in the first 15 picoseconds of the "challenge".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-55761046

Lacius · Jan 23, 2021

Foxi4 said:
With all due respect, so far the Biden plan looks almost exactly the same as the Trump plan, plus some additional mask-wearing recommendations.

In terms of supposedly disastrous plans, Warp Speed is one of the chief reasons why a vaccine was developed in record time, so credit should go where credit is due. The biggest issue right now is individual states being unable to come to an obvious conclusion that healthcare workers and the elderly should be the first two groups to receive it - one due to daily contact with the disease, the other due to the highest level of morbidity from it. Some are so bad at this that they're running the risk of doses expiring. At this point they should just give the shot to anyone who asks, it's better than pouring them down the drain.

If fact, Biden's administration is already following a pre-existing, working distribution plan, contrary to Nancy's ramblings. According to Anthony Faucci, the Patron Saint of COVID, the Biden administration is not "starting from scratch", there's a system in place already, it's being progressively amped up over time, and the new administration will continue to build upon it.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...starting-from-scratch-on-vaccine-distribution

Let's resync with reality, shall we?

Biden inheriting nonexistent coronavirus vaccine distribution plan and must start 'from scratch,' sources say

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/21/politics/biden-covid-vaccination-trump/index.html

Foxi4 · Jan 23, 2021

Lacius said:
Let's resync with reality, shall we?

Biden inheriting nonexistent coronavirus vaccine distribution plan and must start 'from scratch,' sources say

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/21/politics/biden-covid-vaccination-trump/index.html

You have contradicting sources - one saying that there is no plan and one (Faucci himself) that says there very much is a plan, it's just being revamped. If Trump's administration somehow managed to inoculate 17 million+ Americans "with no plan" then they're miracle makers. I put precisely zero stock in the claims that distribution wasn't planned at all, that's ludicrous and obviously false.

EDIT: Well lookie here, it was published on defense.gov, what a shocker.

https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Re...announces-covid-19-vaccine-distribution-plan/

Stop reading, there was no plan.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/202...t-u-s-covid-19-vaccine-distribution-plan.html

Lacius · Jan 23, 2021

Foxi4 said:
You have contradicting sources - one saying that there is no plan and one (Faucci himself) that says there very much is a plan, it's just being revamped. If Trump's administration somehow managed to inoculate 17 million+ Americans "with no plan" then they're miracle makers. I put precisely zero stock in the claims that distribution wasn't planned at all, that's ludicrous and obviously false.

The facts are clear that there was effectively no vaccine distribution plan. If we want to discuss technicalities that mean the Biden people have to remake 99% of the vaccine "plan" vs. 100% of the vaccine "plan," I'm not particularly interested. Governors cannot even come up with their own plans if they're constantly being misled about the number of vaccine doses they're getting, which is what the Trump admin did. The Trump administration vowed to release reserve doses that didn't even existed. I'd say the distribution plan was a complete fuck-up, but there was no plan to speak of.

States told by federal government they will receive fewer Pfizer vaccine doses next week, sparking confusion

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/17/politics/pfizer-vaccine-fewer-doses-states-confusion/index.html

Vaccine reserve was exhausted when Trump administration vowed to release it, dashing hopes of expanded access

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/15/trump-vaccine-reserve-used-up/

Regarding the first article from December, the Trump people also blatantly lied about why states were receiving fewer vaccines from Pfizer. The Trump admin said it was because Pfizer was having issues, but it turns out Pfizer was doing just fine, and they just weren't told where to ship vaccines by the federal government. There was no coordination plan. There was no distribution plan.

Covid-19 Vaccine Leaders Waited Months to Approve Distribution Plans

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-...ths-to-approve-distribution-plans-11610737935

State and local officials clamored for months for federal guidance on a vaccine distribution strategy, but leaders of Operation Warp Speed "waited more than two months to approve a plan to distribute and administer Covid-19 vaccines ... leaving states with little time to implement a mass-vaccination campaign amid a coronavirus surge."

Foxi4 · Jan 23, 2021

Lacius said:
The facts are clear that there was effectively no vaccine distribution plan. If we want to discuss technicalities that mean the Biden people have to remake 99% of the vaccine "plan" vs. 100% of the vaccine "plan," I'm not particularly interested.

Well, if you're planning to use exaggerated claims then yes, it's not a very interesting discussion. I'm glad that the distribution will improve over time, as it has been improving over time up to this point, but I'm not going to pretend that nothing at all was done between the development of the vaccine and now. Millions of immunised Americans are all the evidence I need - whether that's "fast enough" or not is a different discussion, pending the results of "the new and improved plan" so we have a point of comparison. You don't have to lie by omission to make pale man look better, pale man will have to figure this chestnut out himself.

Lacius · Jan 23, 2021

Foxi4 said:
Well, if you're planning to use exaggerated claims then yes, it's not a very interesting discussion.

It's not an exaggeration to say there was effectively no vaccine distribution plan. Please see the Trump administration failures above.

Foxi4 said:
but I'm not going to pretend that nothing at all was done between the development of the vaccine and now.

You don't have to pretend there was effectively no vaccine distribution plan. There was effectively no vaccine distribution plan.

Foxi4 said:
Millions of immunised Americans are all the evidence I need - whether that's "fast enough" or not is a different discussion

It could have been a lot more by now, and given the number of deaths that will happen that could have been mitigated, the Trump vaccine distribution "plan" is without a doubt a failure.

Dr. Fauci says US should have had better coronavirus vaccine rollout

"Clearly, no excuses. We should have gotten 20 distributed, and 20 into the arms of people -- by 20, I mean 20 million," Fauci, the longtime director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told the Economic Club of Washington.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/06/health/us-coronavirus-wednesday/index.html

The fact that the actual number of American vaccinations is "good enough for you" is pretty embarrassing.

Foxi4 · Jan 23, 2021

Lacius said:
It's not an exaggeration to say there was effectively no vaccine distribution plan. Please see the Trump administration failures above.

You don't have to pretend there was effectively no vaccine distribution plan. There was effectively no vaccine distribution plan.

False, demonstrably.

It could have been a lot more by now, and given the number of deaths that will happen that could have been mitigated, the Trump vaccine distribution "plan" is without a doubt a failure.

Dr. Fauci says US should have had better coronavirus vaccine rollout

"Clearly, no excuses. We should have gotten 20 distributed, and 20 into the arms of people -- by 20, I mean 20 million," Fauci, the longtime director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told the Economic Club of Washington.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/06/health/us-coronavirus-wednesday/index.html

I'm sure they could've done better, the more the better.

The fact that the actual number of American vaccinations is "good enough for you" is pretty embarrassing.

Dishonest, not what I said. I said that the estimation of how good the plan was is conditional on how the "new and improved plan" compares. If it isn't any better, or it's marginally better, then there's a different bottleneck that needs addressing.

Lacius · Jan 23, 2021

Foxi4 said:
False, demonstrably.

There was effectively no vaccine distribution plan, and I demonstrated it in multiple ways.

Foxi4 said:
I'm sure they could've done better, the more the better.

They could have done better, but didn't, because of the fuck-up that was the Trump vaccine distribution "plan."

Foxi4 said:
Dishonest, not what I said.

Roll the tape.

Foxi4 said:
but I'm not going to pretend that nothing at all was done between the development of the vaccine and now. Millions of immunised Americans are all the evidence I need

If your argument is the Trump administration didn't fuck up with regard to their vaccine distribution "plan," then you're arguing that the pitifully low number of American vaccinations is good enough for you.

Foxi4 said:
I said that the estimation of how good the plan was is conditional on how the "new and improved plan" compares.

We know the consequences of the Trump administration fuck ups I've already discussed. We don't need to see how the new plan compares to already know that Trump fucked up and they effectively didn't have a vaccine distribution plan.

Foxi4 · Jan 23, 2021

Lacius said:
Roll the tape.

Yes, let's.

Foxi4 said:
(...) whether that's "fast enough" or not is a different discussion, pending the results of "the new and improved plan" so we have a point of comparison. You don't have to lie by omission to make pale man look better, pale man will have to figure this chestnut out himself.

Y'know, those typical dishonest tricks might work during a verbal debate when there's no written record, but since there is one, all you're demonstrating is poor reading comprehension, or attention span. It's funny either way, so keep it up.

Lacius · Jan 23, 2021

Foxi4 said:
Yes, let's.
Y'know, those typical dishonest tricks might work during a verbal debate when there's no written record, but since there is one, all you're demonstrating is poor reading comprehension, all attention span. It's funny either way, so keep it up.

I responded to that point in the post above yours, so I don't think I'm the one demonstrating poor reading comprehension.

Foxi4 · Jan 23, 2021

Lacius said:
I responded to that point in the post above yours, so I don't think I'm the one demonstrating poor reading comprehension.

You responded to it by pretending it didn't exist. I never, at any point, imply or say, that 17 million is good enough. That's all something you manufactured out of straw and proceeded to pummel, thus providing me with much-needed entertainment.

Lacius · Jan 23, 2021

Foxi4 said:
You responded to it by pretending it didn't exist. I never, at any point, imply or say, that 17 million is good enough. That's all something you manufactured out if straw and proceeded to pummel, thus providing me with much-needed entertainment.

I'm repeating myself here, but you can either acknowledge that the Trump administration fucked up with regard to vaccine distribution (given the mounds of evidence I've provided, I'm not sure how one couldn't acknowledge the Trump admin fucked up), or you can argue that the number of American vaccinations is satisfactory. Which is it going to be?

Foxi4 · Jan 23, 2021

Lacius said:
I'm repeating myself here, but you can either acknowledge that the Trump administration fucked up with regard to vaccine distribution (given the mounds of evidence I've provided, I'm not sure how one couldn't acknowledge the Trump admin fucked up), or you can argue that the number of American vaccinations is satisfactory. Which is it going to be?

I can't make that estimation because I have nothing to compare it to that would be relevant logistically. Once a new distribution plan, or rather, the old distribution plan with tweaks, properly starts up I might. It's nice to see you complaining about repeating yourself while simultaneously asking me to repeat myself, multiple times.

tabzer · Jan 23, 2021

Cryoraptor said:
Maybe, but outright saying the current COVID situation is Biden's fault is frankly idiotic. And yes, some on this thread and elsewhere have said that. They are probably trolls, or at least, I hope so.

Well yeah. It is obvious trolling. People politicized Covid before there was a body count. And the people who were saying "let's not politicize it" were among the ones doing it. Biden politicizing it, and saying "I have a plan" doesn't actually have a plan. Surprised?

Side not, people in Japan are wary of the vaccine because of news regarding adverse effects of the said vaccine.

Foxi4 · Jan 23, 2021

tabzer said:
Well yeah. It is obvious trolling. People politicized Covid before there was a body count. And the people who were saying "let's not politicize it" were among the ones doing it. Biden politicizing it, and saying "I have a plan" doesn't actually have a plan. Surprised?

Side not, people in Japan are wary of the vaccine because of news regarding adverse effects of the said vaccine.

In terms of side effects, there's a lot of misinformation on the Web on this subject. There are multiple vaccines in circulation, some more traditional than others, and they were all developed rapidly. It's too early to tell if there's anything to worry about, so my general recommendation would be to take it if you're in any of the prioritised risk groups - your odds are better with it than without it. Old age, obesity and pre-existing conditions, particularly of the respiratory system, are good indicators that you should be queuing up. If any of those affect you, or if you happen to live with someone who fits those descriptions, don't wait.

Lacius · Jan 23, 2021

Foxi4 said:
I can't make that estimation

You don't need the results of the new plan to know the old administration fucked up and the old plan effectively didn't exist.

tabzer · Jan 23, 2021

Foxi4 said:
In terms of side effects, there's a lot of misinformation on the Web on this subject. There are multiple vaccines in circulation, some more traditional than others, and they were all developed rapidly. It's too early to tell if there's anything to worry about, so my general recommendation would be to take it if you're in any of the prioritised risk groups - your odds are better with it than without it. Old age, obesity and pre-existing conditions, particularly of the respiratory system, are good indicators that you should be queuing up. If any of those affect you, or if you happen to live with someone who fits those descriptions, don't wait.

There were 29 reported dead in Norway after taking the vaccine.

Deleted User · Jan 23, 2021

Those in South East Asia are also wary of the current slew of vaccines.

My Medical circle prefer the Chinese Sinovac over the Western alternatives; if you need to ask why then you do not understand the historical extent of the region being test subjects for Western Agricultural and Medical solutions. I'm not going to bore this Thread with the number of Regional Government Officials I know who won't go anywhere near Western-backed Agricultural products; there's no need for me to name brands.

My general public friends prefer the non-MRNA Western alternatives because they don't want to be part of the World's first batch of test subjects; this isn't the COVID-19 Vaccine Thread so I won't go into details, but suffice to say everything any Doctor worth their license knows is being drip-fed to the Media, including the fact that Children are susceptible to COVID-19 more than reported before or how Long-Haul COVID-19 patients are faring.

Not that much of shot to say MRNA is also being disclosed on a need-to-know basis, and most of us are not those that need to know ...

Lacius · Jan 23, 2021

tabzer said:
There were 29 reported dead in Norway after taking the vaccine.

There's no evidence the vaccine killed those 29 people in Norway.

tabzer · Jan 23, 2021

Lacius said:
There's no evidence the vaccine killed those 29 people in Norway.

Yeah, you can shut it.

Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

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Yes

No

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