The EU hits Valve, Capcom, Bethesda, more, with fines for "geo-blocking" game sales

FAST6191 · Jan 20, 2021

Xzi said:
Correct, to the benefit of countries with smaller economies/lower GDP. People see certain buzzwords such as "geo-blocking" and immediately assume they're bad, when in reality they were only ensuring that buying games remains a viable alternative to piracy even for people living below the poverty line. The EU leadership clearly did not think this through fully, as the result will be an increase in piracy. To what extent, we'll just have to wait and see.

Would you support something similar in the US for those states that also do the whole poverty thing? I don't really see a functional difference in this.

I don't find this as egregious as your classic console region blocking, or them blocking resale of downloadable games, but I don't see it as a positive. If everybody and their donkey flocks to eastern Europe to by localised versions of games there and correspondingly eastern Europe EU members finds games being that much more of a luxury by dint of devs choosing to axe such deals to retain the cash cow that is western Europe then so it goes. Would even consider it for a worldwide affair but legally speaking that is tricky (the WTO being generally toothless and about the only entity likely to broach the subject).

Xzi · Jan 20, 2021

FAST6191 said:
Would you support something similar in the US for those states that also do the whole poverty thing? I don't really see a functional difference in this.

Sure, it's no skin off my back. Prices would stay the same for me, and go down for others who are struggling. Win-win.

FAST6191 · Jan 20, 2021

Xzi said:
Sure, it's no skin off my back. Prices would stay the same for me, and go down for others who are struggling. Win-win.

I meant the setup that got them fined being enacted for US states. Cheapo games in Appalachia but expensive in California sort of thing.

Xzi · Jan 20, 2021

FAST6191 said:
I meant the setup that got them fined being enacted for US states. Cheapo games in Appalachia but expensive in California sort of thing.

I fully understand, and it's still a yes from me. It's this type of regional pricing that was partly responsible for endearing Valve to gamers to begin with. That's also why platforms like EGS are having trouble gaining traction in many regions, they have fairly uniform pricing.

Localhorst86 · Jan 20, 2021

Xzi said:
They are. It's a no-win situation for devs/publishers, they're going to lose money over this one way or another. But if they allow wealthier nations to buy new games for 80% off what they'd normally be paying, they'll lose the maximum amount possible. Better to take the hit and have poorer nations pirate the game, while still bringing in their "normal" profits elsewhere.

You're assuming that suddenly everyone, everywhere would suddenly abandon their local market and only use vpns et all to make purchases.
Yes, publishers will lose out on *some* revenue from people savvy enough to go to foreign markets, but that's the rules of the market. They will not lose the entirety or even majority of their revenue stream from the higher gdp countries. And the amount will certainly not justify alienating the lower gdp market. If you partake in the EU market, you have to accept the fact that it can not always only act in your favour.

Xzi said:
There is no benefit to consumers here, so thinking it through would've been the smarter move for sure.

When I said that the EU doesn't have to "think this through", what I aimed for was "can't think this through". There is a market, and this market has rules and regulations. And if someone doesn't follow these rules and regulations, there have to be consequences. Valve can just keep on geoblocking if they want to, they'll have to accept more fines, then. Because that's what the regulations require. And yes, this does benefit the consumer. I, as a consumer, am free to purchase quake 3 in another country because stores are not allowed to sell the game to me in Germany. You are free to purchase the censored versions of WWII shooters in Germany because you don't like swastikas. Joe schmuck from down the street is free to purchase the game in Hungary because its cheaper there. How does that not benefit the consumer?

Paralel · Jan 20, 2021

What Value needs to do is release versions that are language specific in every country where they want to sell it at a different price. If they want to sell it for less in Poland, make it Polish language only. The people from France and Germany aren't going to try and buy that version for less since they probably can't understand a damn word of it.

Xzi · Jan 20, 2021

Localhorst86 said:
You're assuming that suddenly everyone, everywhere would suddenly abandon their local market and only use vpns et all to make purchases.

That's the same assumption that most developers/publishers will be making, yes. From a business perspective, it's an assumption that you have to make, lest you look at an earnings report one day to see that you've sold millions of copies but are still operating in the red. A select few indie devs might be willing to risk it, but AAA devs/publishers are entirely risk-averse.

Ektif · Jan 20, 2021

Another reason why it is good in my opinion is, that as a EU citizen you have the right to work an live all across the EU. So if, for example, you're a German and have your German Steam Account and want to work and live in France, you have hard time buying games on Steam because of the geo-blocking. For the Americans: Just think of it as like moving to another state in the US and suddenly beeing unable to buy games on Steam.

And of course some people would try to take advantage of that system (because they have the right to do this), but most people wouldn't even care and not bother using a VPN just to get cheaper games. Just like as only very few people order from another EU country's Amazon storefront just to get cheaper stuff. The EU isn't to blame here, it is the companies who are breaking EU laws.

MrCokeacola · Jan 20, 2021

It's a good thing no one uses Valve's useless fluff DRM store Steam anyways... right?

Deleted User · Jan 21, 2021

... I feel people need to understand that the highest Game price in the Region does not equate to the Publisher's break even or 100% price; more than not, the lowest price is actually closer to the minimum Profit they're willing to take whereas the highest is the highest.

It's hard to believe Game Developers are working from a loss, selling people AAA and sought-after Games at any type of discount, unlike Console Hardware whose profitability can be offset by the Ecosystem's Software Profits.

So if the argument is made that everything will be pegged at the Country with the lowest prices, then yes, it's worthwhile for the Consumer, but if it's pegged at the middle or highest prices, then at least half will lose out, just so the highest-priced Country can feel some sort of equality.

lilaznkilla · Jan 21, 2021

Paralel said:
What Value needs to do is release versions that are language specific in every country where they want to sell it at a different price. If they want to sell it for less in Poland, make it Polish language only. The people from France and Germany aren't going to try and buy that version for less since they probably can't understand a damn word of it.

That would be on the Developers to implement seeing as most of the games have language selection in the game. Depending on how its done, this would most likely mean they'll have to manage each version separately in terms of installers, updates etc

JFizDaWiz · Jan 21, 2021

[redacted]

HarveyHouston · Jan 21, 2021

Region locks are a pain... in the hardware! Nintendo has done it, Valve does it, Netflix, Hulu... Unfortunately, for those who run services, they have some content which is not acceptable everywhere. In Germany, for instance, certain WWII references are banned (which was what Cyberflix ran across upon making Titanic: Adventure Out Of Time).

VPNs may fix this, but it's a costly way to get around regional barriers. Tor works sometimes, but if you have accounts, the providers can pretty much tell where you're coming from. Ultimately, it's up to the services to change, and I think the EU is trying to get that done.

Bladexdsl · Jan 21, 2021

those fines are a joke that's slush money for them except maybe capcom they are almost bankrupt

Localhorst86 · Jan 21, 2021

Xzi said:
That's the same assumption that most developers/publishers will be making, yes. From a business perspective, it's an assumption that you have to make, lest you look at an earnings report one day to see that you've sold millions of copies but are still operating in the red. A select few indie devs might be willing to risk it, but AAA devs/publishers are entirely risk-averse.

Publishers have in the past simply maximised their profits on the consumers back by not adhering to the rules.
They are going to look at data from the past (before valve and co. increased their blocking efforts) and calculate how much raising the prices in the lower GDP areas will affect their bottom line. They re not going to alienate the low GDP market and essentially pushing them into piracy by setting a uniform price. They know that that would have a worse effect on their bottom line, particularly in the long run by "normalizing" piracy.

I have tried to look up some numbers, but I am not sure how accurate they are I decided to look up a game on my wishlist as well as cyberpunk 2077. And I guess a sample size of 2 is rather unscientific, but at least its something.

CP2077:
https://steamdb.info/app/1091500/
EURO price: 59,99€
lowest price within the EU in a different currency: Poland, roughly 43€ converted to EURO - 26% of saving

Parkitect:
https://steamdb.info/app/453090/
EURO price: 24,99€
lowest EU price in a different currency: Norway, roughly 20€ converted to EURO - 20% saving

We are far from the touted "80% lost revenue", even in the worst case scenario (everyone abandoning their local store), we are looking at a maximum of 30% loss in revenue which, granted, is a lot, but totally unrealistic to assume given the circumstances. Most people will simply fire up their steam client and buy the game in their region, only a small percentage will go through the effort of comparing prices, finding a VPN for that country and and possibly having to deal with a website or even game in a foreign language to save a bit of money.

Hells Malice · Jan 21, 2021

Another attempt by the old men running the EU to put them back in the dark ages. There's going to be a point where companies are so tired of the arbitrary bullshit the EU spews out they WILL just stop bothering and block the entirety of the EU. This isn't even an outlandish idea, tons of game companies already pulled out of the EU because of their bullshit costing so much to deal with it stopped being profitable to do business there.

Obviously it'll take more than a piddly 1.2mill fine for something like Steam to go that far but the EU is certainly working up to it.

All this will do is force steam to equalize the price across the EU, alienating poorer countries and forcing them to pay full pop for games which benefits -no one-. Gamers lose their ability to reasonably afford games, and platforms/devs lose sales to piracy. But hey the old men running the EU get some pocket money.

Redferne · Jan 21, 2021

MarkDarkness said:
I... kind of do? I am not going to be "that guy on the Internet", but I literally have a peer-reviewed article on regional price diversification as a tool to lower game piracy rates, so... yeah.

You have a link to that article, I'd like to read it.
That makes your initial comment even more puzzling...

Alexander1970 · Jan 21, 2021

MeAndHax said:
..Excuse me?

Weil das keine Strafen sind....die zahlen das ja aus der Kaffeekasse und Valve hat ja gleich gesagt "Ihr könnt uns mal.." und sind zu keiner Zusammenarbeit bereit...
also.... wozu das Ganze ?

Because these are not fines .... they pay it out of the coffee box and Valve immediately said "You can give us a ..." and are not ready for any cooperation ...
so .... why is it all ?

the_randomizer · Jan 21, 2021

EU and the lobbyists being the out of touch losers as always

Redferne · Jan 21, 2021

the_randomizer said:
EU and the lobbyists being the out of touch losers as always

So it's good that Valve is preventing the EU costumer to buy his games for a cheaper price as he is authorized by law? Yeah bad EU, bad...

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