Joe Biden Wins - Becomes 46th president of the United States

Deleted User · Nov 24, 2020

mammastuffing said:
I'm sorry, but you are not above criticism. If you present fallacious arguments you bet I am going to point it out.

Here, maybe you can learn something:
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Authority

When did I say I was above criticism? This is why I don't waste much time on GBATemp forums. You are probably 20 years old - I know the feeling - you know it all right? What fallacious argument did I present?

gregory-samba · Nov 24, 2020

eastwald said:
When did I say I was above criticism? This is why I don't waste much time on GBATemp forums. You are probably 20 years old - I know the feeling - you know it all right? What fallacious argument did I present?

What's worse than know it all's is know it all liberals.

mammastuffing · Nov 24, 2020

eastwald said:
I'm making an assumption - you are young. I thought like you once, and this is where conservatives and liberals seem to differ as of late. Your kind (not saying you specifically - I don't know you as you don't know me, but I'm talking about people who will sacrifice liberty for temporary safety - one who does such deserves neither).

I don't see how any of that is relevant? My age or my background has NOTHING to do with this discussion.

eastwald said:
Ever hear about cases of children raised by germaphobe Moms, who eventually became allergic to dirt? The more your body fights viruses, the stronger your immune system is.
I'm all for protecting the elderly/those w/ pre-existing conditions. Both of my parents are still alive and I want it to stay that way, as long as possible.

I don't need to cite a medical journal. It's common knowledge that your immune system strengthens as it fights more - unless you are compromised. Not many young people are compromised.

If you REALLY want MD references, I'll email my Neice (very liberal) and post what she responds with.

Yes, I accept that the immune system strengthens as it fights more. However... We are in the middle of a pandemic. The whole reason we need to keep distance and wear masks is because the health care systems are overrun.

It sounds like your argument is that the health care systems wouldn't be overrun if everyone just got sick because their immune systems would eventually kick in. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Deleted User · Nov 24, 2020

mammastuffing said:
I don't see how any of that is relevant? My age or my background has NOTHING to do with this discussion.

Yes, I accept that the immune system strengthens as it fights more. However... We are in the middle of a pandemic. The whole reason we need to keep distance and wear masks is because the health care systems are overrun.

It sounds like your argument is that the health care systems wouldn't be overrun if everyone just got sick because their immune systems would eventually kick in. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I've had the Cornholio virus. Have you? Your age damn well is important, by the way. You know nothing of the real world and what it's like running a business or raising a family.

Guess what - I'm almost 40, and I felt a little hot and slightly itchy on my arms for about 12 hours. That was it. Now tell me why we need to lock ourselves indoors, and ignore our constitutional (GOD GIVEN) freedoms?

AmandaRose · Nov 24, 2020

UltraSUPRA said:
Similarly, masks hurt your ears, weaken your immune system, and can make it hard to breathe.

1. You can get masks that tie behind your head. https://www.thedailybeast.com/face-masks-with-ties

2. You are not wearing the mask 24/7 there will be no damage caused to your immune system. You would need to wear the mask all the time for a number of years for anything to happen to your immune system.

3. There is also various solutions to the problem of breathing available such as https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nutronics-...eywords=breathing+mask&qid=1606212582&sr=8-15

Deleted User · Nov 24, 2020

10% effective cloth masks? or N95s? Be specific.

omgcat · Nov 24, 2020

tabzer said:
Seems like you two are saying the same thing. Doctors don't start treating patients of the virus by putting people on ventilators anymore. If they really need to do it, they do it with modified settings because they were doing harm, previously. He's not being technical, and you aren't being practical.

at this point I'm not sure what he was trying to do. argue that multiple states aren't at or exceeding ICU capacity, or that people aren't falling seriously ill with this disease? he made a statement claiming "They aren't using ventilators anymore" and linked an article that didn't back the statement up. i pointed it out, he doubled down with another article that also didn't back up his original point.

mammastuffing · Nov 24, 2020

eastwald said:
When did I say I was above criticism?

Let me show you:

eastwald said:
Sounds like an appeal to authority? No matter what I write, factual, non-factual, you will respond with 'you suck' because I hurt your narrative.

It sounds like you are whining about the fact that when someone points out that you are wrong then it doesn't count because I'm only saying "you suck". Which by the way is a flat out lie.

eastwald said:
What fallacious argument did I present?

Here you go:

eastwald said:
P.S. I have two doctors in my family - one my Son, the other my Niece.

The fallacy is X is a doctor and says Y is true, therefore Y is true.

omgcat · Nov 24, 2020

eastwald said:
10% effective cloth masks? or N95s? Be specific.

even cloth masks are effective because droplets from the airway start at sizes larger than the spaces between cloth fibers. blocking large droplets before they evaporate into smaller droplets is the basic point with masks. Everyone needs to be wearing them because asymptomatic spread is the most common kind, and you won't know your asymptomatically infected until you get tested. it is best to assume everyone is currently infected to mitigate asymptomatic spread.

AmandaRose · Nov 24, 2020

The advice is simple.

• Wear a fabric mask unless you’re in a particular risk group. This is especially important when you
can’t stay physically distanced, particularly in crowded and poorly ventilated indoor settings.
• Wear a medical/surgical mask if you:
◦ Are over 60,
◦ Have underlying medical conditions
◦ Are feeling unwell, and/or
◦ Are looking after an ill family member.

mammastuffing · Nov 24, 2020

eastwald said:
I've had the Cornholio virus. Have you? Your age damn well is important, by the way. You know nothing of the real world and what it's like running a business or raising a family.

No it fucking isn't. My age has NOTHING to do with whether or not we should be wearing masks. So you're arguing that the older a person is the more correct they are? Do you hear how stupid that sounds?

eastwald said:
Guess what - I'm almost 40, and I felt a little hot and slightly itchy on my arms for about 12 hours. That was it. Now tell me why we need to lock ourselves indoors, and ignore our constitutional (GOD GIVEN) freedoms?

What are you on about? And by the way, please provide evidence that "god" exists and has ever given you anything.

omgcat · Nov 24, 2020

eastwald said:
10% effective cloth masks? or N95s? Be specific.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143281/

Published data have suggested that sneezing may produce as many as 40 000 droplets between 0.5–12 μm in diameter (Cole & Cook, 1998; Tang et al., 2006) that may be expelled at speeds up to 100 m/s (Wells, 1955; Cole & Cook, 1998), whereas coughing may produce up to 3000 droplet nuclei, about the same number as talking for five minutes (Cole & Cook, 1998; Fitzgerald & Haas, 2005; Tang et al., 2006). Despite the variety in size, large droplets comprise most of the total volume of expelled respiratory droplets. Further data on the behavior of droplet dispersion in naturally generated aerosols are needed.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252

In conclusion, we have measured the filtration efficiencies of various commonly available fabrics for use as cloth masks in filtering particles in the significant (for aerosol-based virus transmission) size range of ∼10 nm to ∼6 μm and have presented filtration efficiency data as a function of aerosol particle size. We find that cotton, natural silk, and chiffon can provide good protection, typically above 50% in the entire 10 nm to 6.0 μm range, provided they have a tight weave.

your basic ass cotton mouth covering will block at least 50% of particulate matter between 10nm to 6um in size. respiratory droplets are between .5um (500 nm) and 12um, these sizes are clearly in the 50% size range, or are bigger which gives it better filtration. a cloth mask is expected to be around 70% effective.

also for the people who complain about wearing masks for extended amounts of time being unsafe, tell that to dental assistance who wear that shit for 4+ hours of the day, 5 days a week or more, on top of surgeons who wear them for 14+ hour surgeries. masks keep you and others safe.

jimbo13 · Nov 24, 2020

omgcat said:
even cloth masks are effective because droplets from the airway start at sizes larger than the spaces between cloth fibers. blocking large droplets before they evaporate into smaller droplets is the basic point with masks. Everyone needs to be wearing them because asymptomatic spread is the most common kind, and you won't know your asymptomatically infected until you get tested. it is best to assume everyone is currently infected to mitigate asymptomatic spread.

What kind of cloth? What kind of density?

Before you start claiming efficacy you need to have some kind of criteria, which the public health recommendations/mandate lack. Because it's not about safety, it's about compliance and symbols.

If the ruling class were concerned about safety we would be doing N95 masks and they would be following their rules.

And if masking is only going to work if everyone does it, you just proved it will never work because that wont happen.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

mammastuffing said:
No it fucking isn't. My age has NOTHING to do with whether or not we should be wearing masks. So you're arguing that the older a person is the more correct they are? Do you hear how stupid that sounds?

What are you on about? And by the way, please provide evidence that "god" exists and has ever given you anything.

You need this.

tabzer · Nov 24, 2020

omgcat said:
at this point I'm not sure what he was trying to do. argue that multiple states aren't at or exceeding ICU capacity, or that people aren't falling seriously ill with this disease? he made a statement claiming "They aren't using ventilators anymore" and linked an article that didn't back the statement up. i pointed it out, he doubled down with another article that also didn't back up his original point.

I think the topic you were discussing got derailed about the time you mentioned granny. Ventilator shortage or excess didn't seem to be the heart of the issue.

mammastuffing · Nov 24, 2020

jimbo13 said:
You need this.

Why?

omgcat · Nov 24, 2020

jimbo13 said:
What kind of cloth? What kind of density?

maybe you should read more instead of flailing about.
these two links are a thing called a source.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143281/
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252

if you open them you can read all sorts of cool information like

"we have measured the filtration efficiencies of various commonly available fabrics for use as cloth masks in filtering particles in the significant (for aerosol-based virus transmission) size range of ∼10 nm to ∼6 μm and have presented filtration efficiency data as a function of aerosol particle size. We find that cotton, natural silk, and chiffon can provide good protection, typically above 50% in the entire 10 nm to 6.0 μm range, provided they have a tight weave.

you even get cool pictures like

Figure 3. Filtration efficiency of individual fabrics at a flow rate of 1.2 CFM (without gap). (a) Plot showing the filtration efficiencies of a cotton quilt consisting of two 120 threads per inch (TPI) cotton sheets enclosing a ∼0.5 cm thick cotton batting, 80 TPI quilters cotton (Q Cotton 80 TPI), and a 600 TPI cotton (cotton 600 TPI). (b) Plot showing the filtration efficiencies of one layer of natural silk (Silk-1L), four layers of natural silk (Silk-4L), one layer of flannel, and one layer of chiffon. The error bars on the <300 nm measurements are higher, particularly for samples with high filtration efficiencies because of the small number of particles generated in this size range, the relatively poorer counting efficiency of the detector at <300 nm particle size, and the very small counts downstream of the sample. The sizes of the error bars for some of the data points (>300 nm) are smaller than the symbol size and hence not clearly visible.

heck even the information in that image is explained!

what a wondrous thing.

but I'm pretty sure you never bothered to click the links.

please educate yourself on:

1. gathering and citing sources

2. reading sources cited to you

3. argument formation and presentation

for the sake of clarity, Eastwald stated cloth masks were only 10% effective which i took the time to prove wrong.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

mammastuffing said:
Why?

I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm a militant atheist which is sort of correct. I don't actively hate religious people, but i have a ton of contempt for them after my childhood friend hanged himself in his closet with a sweater because of the abuse of his born-again christian step-father, as well as the childhood abuse.of my wife by the Jehovah's witnesses and their subsequent cover-up of it (see recent news about a bunch of this shit coming to light).

one doesn't need a religious doctrine to have a moral framework.

tabzer · Nov 24, 2020

omgcat said:
for the sake of clarity, Morovan stated cloth masks were only 10% effective which i took the time to prove wrong.

TBH, masks won't do anything if wearing them gives people mental license to be 10x more invasive and careless. Take care of yourselves and "God be with you". Of course mental health and comfort are very important. People overcome and make peace with cancer through those kinds of things.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

omgcat said:
I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm a militant atheist which is sort of correct. I don't actively hate religious people, but i have a ton of contempt for them after my childhood friend hanged himself because of the abuse of his born-again christian step-father, as well as the childhood abuse.of my wife by the Jehovah's witnesses and their subsequent cover-up of it (see recent news about a bunch of this shit coming to light).

one doesn't need a religious doctrine to have a moral framework.

Sorry. I wasn't trying to shit on you over your struggle with the G.O.D.

jimbo13 · Nov 24, 2020

mammastuffing said:
Why?

So maybe you stop acting like a triggered atheist brat that feels the need to start proselytizing anytime someone uses a euphemism with God in it.

If you don't like Western civilizations relationship with Christianity and it's influence on the language get on a tire raft and float your ass to a communist country.

But regardless of whether you stay or go stop with preaching the good word of your magic nothing in the sky, from the bottom of my heart : Prick.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

omgcat said:
maybe you should read more instead of flailing about.
these two links are a thing called a source.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143281/
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252

if you open them you can read all sorts of cool information like

"we have measured the filtration efficiencies of various commonly available fabrics for use as cloth masks in filtering particles in the significant (for aerosol-based virus transmission) size range of ∼10 nm to ∼6 μm and have presented filtration efficiency data as a function of aerosol particle size. We find that cotton, natural silk, and chiffon can provide good protection, typically above 50% in the entire 10 nm to 6.0 μm range, provided they have a tight weave.

you even get cool pictures like

Figure 3. Filtration efficiency of individual fabrics at a flow rate of 1.2 CFM (without gap). (a) Plot showing the filtration efficiencies of a cotton quilt consisting of two 120 threads per inch (TPI) cotton sheets enclosing a ∼0.5 cm thick cotton batting, 80 TPI quilters cotton (Q Cotton 80 TPI), and a 600 TPI cotton (cotton 600 TPI). (b) Plot showing the filtration efficiencies of one layer of natural silk (Silk-1L), four layers of natural silk (Silk-4L), one layer of flannel, and one layer of chiffon. The error bars on the <300 nm measurements are higher, particularly for samples with high filtration efficiencies because of the small number of particles generated in this size range, the relatively poorer counting efficiency of the detector at <300 nm particle size, and the very small counts downstream of the sample. The sizes of the error bars for some of the data points (>300 nm) are smaller than the symbol size and hence not clearly visible.

heck even the information in that image is explained!

what a wondrous thing.

but I'm pretty sure you never bothered to click the links.

please educate yourself on:

1. gathering and citing sources

2. reading sources cited to you

3. argument formation and presentation

for the sake of clarity, Eastwald stated cloth masks were only 10% effective which i took the time to prove wrong.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm a militant atheist which is sort of correct. I don't actively hate religious people, but i have a ton of contempt for them after my childhood friend hanged himself in his closet with a sweater because of the abuse of his born-again christian step-father, as well as the childhood abuse.of my wife by the Jehovah's witnesses and their subsequent cover-up of it (see recent news about a bunch of this shit coming to light).

one doesn't need a religious doctrine to have a moral framework.

Nah I am just going to keep flailing around and not wear a mask, You probably can't catch germs up on a high horse anyways.

mammastuffing · Nov 24, 2020

jimbo13 said:
So maybe you stop acting like a triggered atheist brat that feels the need to start proselytizing anytime someone uses a euphemism with God in it.

If you don't like Western civilizations relationship with Christianity and it's influence on the language get on a tire raft and float your ass to a communist country.

But regardless of whether you stay or go stop with preaching the good word of your magic nothing in the sky, from the bottom of my heart : Prick.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Nah I am just going to keep flailing around and not wear a mask, You probably can't catch germs up on a high horse anyways.

Haha, wow. You really are the stereotypical Trump supporter. Extremely unintelligent, racist, a gullible fairytale believing religious moron. You believe without evidence and completely lack the ability of critical thinking.

So from the bottom of my heart; go fuck yourself, you ignorant asshat. Good thing is that there are more people like you who die of covid because of your stupidity.

tabzer · Nov 24, 2020

mammastuffing said:
Haha, wow. You really are the stereotypical Trump supporter. Extremely unintelligent, racist, a gullible fairytale believing religious moron. You believe without evidence and completely lack the ability of critical thinking.

So from the bottom of my heart; go fuck yourself, you ignorant asshat. Good thing is that there are more people like you who die of covid because of your stupidity.

It maybe true that he is ignorant, unintelligent, and a gullible religious moron, but what you are saying would make anyone ashamed of associating with you on a public level. It looks like you are wishing a handicapped person to die because they are handicapped.

Joe Biden Wins - Becomes 46th president of the United States

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