[POLL] 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

crimpshrine · Oct 11, 2020

Lacius said:
My point was that defining court-packing as "anything over 9 judges" is arbitrary. The Republicans have done plenty of things that can be called court-packing.

If Trump has a constitutional right to replace RBG, then Obama had a constitutional right to replace Scalia. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Both sides play the game. Using an example from another time does not make Trumps right any less of a right now. He is not doing anything illegal.

If the senate had a democrat majority Trump would not be successful. I don't get your logic.

And the democrats have been playing "dirty" this whole term. They reap what they sowed.

Lacius · Oct 11, 2020

crimpshrine said:
Both sides play the game. Using an example from another time does not make Trumps right any less of a right now. He is not doing anything illegal.

Adding more seats to the court isn't illegal, so if that's your rationale, what's the problem?

crimpshrine · Oct 11, 2020

Lacius said:
Adding more seats to the court isn't illegal, so if that's your rationale, what's the problem?

Liberals are going to be wishing Biden felt you like you do, and not insult the American people.

I think 9 is a good # and I don't really want to debate my reasoning behind it. It's really not the point. I think this is going to harm Biden, not help him with middle of the road people. I think to say oh it really does not matter, is crazy.

Again, imagine if Trump had said what Biden said.

Lacius · Oct 11, 2020

crimpshrine said:
Liberals are going to be wishing Biden felt you like you do, and not insult the American people.

I think 9 is a good # and I don't really want to debate my reasoning behind it. It's really not the point. I think this is going to harm Biden, not help him with middle of the road people. I think to say oh it really does not matter, is crazy.

Again, imagine if Trump had said what Biden said.

If Republicans are going to, for example, change the number of seats on the D.C. Circuit, deny Democratic presidents Supreme Court appointments under rules that they themselves aren't going to follow, etc., then there is nothing wrong with the Democrats adding seats to the Supreme Court. The Republicans are the ones who decided the rules are arbitrary. The Republicans didn't break any laws (not even bringing up the Garland appointment might have been unconstitutional), and the Democrats wouldn't be breaking any laws either.

As an aside, it also has the added benefit of making each life term appointment to the Supreme Court less consequential.

crimpshrine · Oct 11, 2020

I just saw this quote from Biden from yesterday. Now I understand why I have seen at least 1 democrat kind of make the same claim.

This is just crazy if you ask me.

“The only court packing going on right now is going on with Republicans… It's not constitutional what they’re doing,” Biden told reporters on Saturday.

This kind of rhetoric will push people to stick with what they know that works. (Those on the fence) And under Trump, people were happy with the last 4 years. I know I was, and I think I mentioned before. I did not even vote for him in 2016. LOL.

Shulk95 · Oct 11, 2020

I haven't logged into my account here in about a year I think, also i usually avoid the gaming communities political discussions because they tend to be very liberal.......... but i gotta drop my personal opinion by, giving some insight to the feeling the Lord Jesus Christ is giving me personally........ I believe this election is gonna be a huge victory for God!... Donald Trump is doing things that very much so seem organized by our almighty God, i fully believe with all my heart that bible prophecy is fulfilling itself in our faces! Work he's done in the middle east is very interesting and something people should really pay attention to! I don't think God is done with Donald Trump yet either! The best is yet to come and I'm so thankful that Trump is bringing GOD back to America. I'm gonna continue praying for Trump! God please give him 4 more years..... Trump 2020 <3

Deleted User · Oct 11, 2020

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I'm I the only one who just read what shulk said and thought
"What is this, the crusade? bringing back the holy land? this isn't dangerous thinking at all to treat a political figure like a god."

LumInvader · Oct 11, 2020

crimpshrine said:
https://townhall.com/columnists/way...oll-alert-proof-biden-is-not-winning-n2577814

Fake-Poll Alert: Proof Biden Is Not Winning

Folks, understand this: What polls say doesn't matter. What people say to pollsters doesn't matter. What matters is only the votes of people in a few key battleground states, in particular Florida and the Midwestern states of Ohio, Michigan, Iowa, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. My fans tell me these states are 100 percent Trump country. In small towns and outer suburbs, you can't find any support for Biden.

It's 2016 squared. After what Trump has done for the U.S. economy and manufacturing jobs and to win the trade war with China, he is a hero. People may not tell that to pollsters, but Trump is "the king of the Midwest."

The media quotes nonstop any poll that shows Trump losing by double digits. But I never heard a word about the Democracy Institute Sunday Express poll from this week that showed Trump beating Biden 46% to 45% and winning almost all battleground states by a healthy margin. That poll didn't over sample Democrats by a mile (as most other polls do) and polled only likely voters. Likely voters in battleground states are all that matter.

Or the Poll Watch poll released this week that shows Trump winning nationally, in battleground states and in the Electoral College. Trump dominates on the two issues that matter to most Americans: the economy and law and order.

Or have you heard that in the RealClearPolitics battleground average, Trump is slightly ahead of where he was at this time in 2016 (on his way to a victory over Hillary Clinton)?

Most importantly, a new Gallup poll reports 56% of Americans say they are better off now under Trump than they were four years ago under then-President Barack Obama and then-Vice President Joe Biden. Every expert knows what clinches elections -- "It's the economy, stupid." A solid majority of Americans feel better off today than four years ago, despite COVID-19. You think they're voting for Biden? By the way, that 56% is the highest number in the history of Gallup asking, "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?" Ronald Reagan got 44% in the Gallup poll and won the election in a landslide. Trump is at 56%.

If Americans aren't yet convinced Trump is great for the economy, on Oct. 29, five days before the election, the third-quarter gross domestic product will be released. The Atlanta Fed estimates it will be 34.6% economic growth, the highest in the history of America -- since 1776.

Still not convinced? Since primaries were born in 1912, no incumbent has ever lost the general election after receiving 75% or more of the votes from their party in the primaries. Trump received 94% of all cast in the 2020 Republican primaries.

One more factor: Because of fear of COVID-19, Team Biden has hardly knocked on any doors in America. But Trump volunteers have knocked on over 20 million doors in battleground states. Twelve million to zero. You don't think that changes things on Election Day?

Strawman argument.

A right-wing extremist website cites a pollster nobody's ever heard of claiming it's single poll as "PROOF" that aggregate polling is incorrect. Also notable is how the author failed to account for far more reputable conservative pollsters, such as Fox News, that has Biden up a combined 9.5 points over their TWO most recent polls.

He discounts pollster data, yet has no issues counting on the feedback from his biased fans, proclaiming, "my fans tell me these [battleground] states are 100 percent Trump country."

That's some really funky doo-doo logic right there. Sounds like an article you'd write, crimpshine.

Lacius · Oct 11, 2020

crimpshrine said:
I just saw this quote from Biden from yesterday. Now I understand why I have seen at least 1 democrat kind of make the same claim.

This is just crazy if you ask me.

This kind of rhetoric will push people to stick with what they know that works. (Those on the fence) And under Trump, people were happy with the last 4 years. I know I was, and I think I mentioned before. I did not even vote for him in 2016. LOL.

The whole "Democratic presidents don't get to nominate replacements to fill Supreme Court vacancies" thing is arguably unconstitutional.

Shulk95 said:
I haven't logged into my account here in about a year I think, also i usually avoid the gaming communities political discussions because they tend to be very liberal.......... but i gotta drop my personal opinion by, giving some insight to the feeling the Lord Jesus Christ is giving me personally........ I believe this election is gonna be a huge victory for God!... Donald Trump is doing things that very much so seem organized by our almighty God, i fully believe with all my heart that bible prophecy is fulfilling itself in our faces! Work he's done in the middle east is very interesting and something people should really pay attention to! I don't think God is done with Donald Trump yet either! The best is yet to come and I'm so thankful that Trump is bringing GOD back to America. I'm gonna continue praying for Trump! God please give him 4 more years..... Trump 2020 <3

Trump is the antithesis of just about anything good one might point to in the Bible.

mehrab2603 · Oct 11, 2020

Shulk95 said:
I haven't logged into my account here in about a year I think, also i usually avoid the gaming communities political discussions because they tend to be very liberal.......... but i gotta drop my personal opinion by, giving some insight to the feeling the Lord Jesus Christ is giving me personally........ I believe this election is gonna be a huge victory for God!... Donald Trump is doing things that very much so seem organized by our almighty God, i fully believe with all my heart that bible prophecy is fulfilling itself in our faces! Work he's done in the middle east is very interesting and something people should really pay attention to! I don't think God is done with Donald Trump yet either! The best is yet to come and I'm so thankful that Trump is bringing GOD back to America. I'm gonna continue praying for Trump! God please give him 4 more years..... Trump 2020 <3

Is this sarcasm? God couldn't find anyone better than one of the most morally deplorable persons to do his bidding?

crimpshrine · Oct 11, 2020

LumInvader said:
Strawman argument.

A right-wing extremist website cites a pollster nobody's ever heard of claiming it's single poll as "PROOF" that aggregate polling is incorrect. Also notable is how the author failed to account for far more reputable conservative pollsters, such as Fox News, that has Biden up a combined 9.5 points over their TWO most recent polls.

He discounts pollster data, yet has no issues counting on the feedback from his biased fans, proclaiming, "my fans tell me these [battleground] states are 100 percent Trump country."

That's some really funky doo-doo logic right there. Sounds like an article you'd write, crimpshine.

We shall see LimInvader. Won't be long now. I see you just picked what you claim you can refute, but left the rest. (not that it would matter)

I am optimistic. And Biden/Harris is continuing to help my optimism.

omgcat · Oct 11, 2020

crimpshrine said:
We shall see LimInvader. Won't be long now. I see you just picked what you claim you can refute, but left the rest. (not that it would matter)

I am optimistic. And Biden/Harris is continuing to help my optimism.

the fun thing is that in this race Jo Jorgensen is doing to trump Jill stein did to Hillary. as the libertarian candidate, Jo is pulling away voters from trump to her 3 to 1 compared to Biden. without the libertarian candidate sucking up embarrassed conservatives, trump would be doing much better. in some states, Jorgensen is pulling as much as 3% from Trump and 1% from Biden, that is enough to kill a candidates chances.

Hanafuda · Oct 11, 2020

Lacius said:
My point was that defining court-packing as "anything over 9 judges" is arbitrary.

174 of the last 180 years at 9 justices is a helluva lot of precedent. The fact that they went back to 9, after a 6 year increase to 10, and that it has stayed at 9 for 150 years is even more weight against change.

The Republicans have done plenty of things that can be called court-packing.

No, court-packing has always been a Democrat cry-baby dream for getting what they want when they end up on the losing end of elections. The last President to think he'd give it a try was FDR.

If Trump has a constitutional right to replace RBG, then Obama had a constitutional right to replace Scalia. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

No President has a constitutional right to do anything but nominate judicial candidates when there is a vacancy. The Senate is the gatekeeper to entry to the Federal bench, and Obama did not have the consent of the Senate. Trump *probably* does for Barrett's confirmation.

omgcat · Oct 11, 2020

Hanafuda said:
No President has a constitutional right to do anything but nominate judicial candidates when there is a vacancy. The Senate is the gatekeeper to entry to the Federal bench, and Obama did not have the consent of the Senate. Trump *probably* does for Barrett's confirmation.

correct, and if dems win the senate, and Biden nominates judicial candidates, the senate can confirm them, even if it makes the number exceed 9, there is no law binding the USC to 9 justices. there are no problems because the senate and presidency are doing there job right?

Lacius · Oct 11, 2020

Hanafuda said:
174 of the last 180 years at 9 justices is a helluva lot of precedent. The fact that they went back to 9, after a 6 year increase to 10, and that it has stayed at 9 for 150 years is even more weight against change.

No, court-packing has always been a Democrat cry-baby dream for getting what they want when they end up on the losing end of elections. The last President to think he'd give it a try was FDR.

No President has a constitutional right to do anything but nominate judicial candidates when there is a vacancy. The Senate is the gatekeeper to entry to the Federal bench, and Obama did not have the consent of the Senate. Trump *probably* does for Barrett's confirmation.

The Republicans have violated plenty of precedents regarding courts, and they're also arbitrarily changing the rules to fit their desires. If that's the new precedent, Democrats should do the same. Look at my posts above for the details. You're not going to win this one.

Regarding constitutionality, the Senate is to take up a nominee in the event of a vacancy and nomination. That doesn't mean they have to vote in favor of the nominee, but the Senate didn't have a chance to give their consent or not, and that was arguably unconstitutional.

crimpshrine · Oct 11, 2020

omgcat said:
the fun thing is that in this race Jo Jorgensen is doing to trump Jill stein did to Hillary. as the libertarian candidate, Jo is pulling away voters from trump to her 3 to 1 compared to Biden. without the libertarian candidate sucking up embarrassed conservatives, trump would be doing much better. in some states, Jorgensen is pulling as much as 3% from Trump and 1% from Biden, that is enough to kill a candidates chances.

It goes both ways though. The poll this thread is attached to is an example of that. All the others might have been biden voters if not for the fact that he is not desirable by many.

Lacius · Oct 11, 2020

omgcat said:
correct, and if dems win the senate, and Biden nominates judicial candidates, the senate can confirm them, even if it makes the number exceed 9, there is no law binding the USC to 9 justices. there are no problems because the senate and presidency are doing there job right?

There is nothing in the constitution limiting the number of justices to 9. It's statute law. Congress can increase the number.

If the argument is that the Republicans are okay because what they're doing is legal, then they should feel the same way about court packing.

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crimpshrine said:
It goes both ways though. The poll this thread is attached to is an example of that. All the others might have been biden voters if not for the fact that he is not desirable by many.

Biden is polling at about +4.5 in Florida. This endorsement might help Trump, but there's a good chance this isn't the kind of shakeup he needs. It should also be noted that there's a 16% chance Florida will be the tipping point. While high, that means there is an 84% chance the tipping point will be a state other than Florida, and there a lot of electoral college maps where Biden loses Florida but wins the election. There aren't many maps where Trump loses Florida but wins the election.

omgcat · Oct 11, 2020

crimpshrine said:
It goes both ways though. The poll this thread is attached to is an example of that. All the others might have been biden voters if not for the fact that he is not desirable by many.

you're right, and we can quantify that. as i said, libertarianism does not appeal as much to Dems as it does to the GOP, and as of now we are seeing Jo pull away 3 voters from trump for every 1 voter from Biden. the green party would be more likely to pull Dem voters, but they did not make it onto the ballots this year in enough states to make a difference at all.

Lacius · Oct 11, 2020

omgcat said:
you're right, and we can quantify that. as i said, libertarianism does not appeal as much to Dems as it does to the GOP, and as of now we are seeing Jo pull away 3 voters from trump for every 1 voter from Biden. the green party would be more likely to pull Dem voters, but they did not make it onto the ballots this year in enough states to make a difference at all.

Crucially, Howie Hawkins isn't on the ballot in Pennsylvania nor Wisconsin.

crimpshrine · Oct 11, 2020

Lacius said:
There is nothing in the constitution limiting the number of justices to 9. It's statute law. Congress can increase the number.

If the argument is that the Republicans are okay because what they're doing is legal, then they should feel the same way about court packing.

I don't have any problems with supreme court packing in the sense that if they can get them approved within the rules. I could even go as far as to say it was never the intent to have that many justices, but if they are not breaking any rules, then I have to accept it. I don't want that, and many others don't want that either. And that is why the dems keep threatening it I believe. But what Trump is doing now is perfectly legal and if the dems are threatening to do something that historically is not wanted, it is another indicator they don't ultimately want what is better. It is just more of their tantrum.

What is wrong and I think it will bite them in the ass is Biden and his choice of words.

No one would stand for it if Trump said these words when asked his position on a matter:

No, they don’t deserve to know.

[POLL] 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

For whom will/would you vote?

Donald Trump and Mike Pence (Republican Party)

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris (Democratic Party)

Jo Jorgensen and Spike Cohen (Libertarian Party)

Howie Hawkins and Angela Walker (Green Party)

Other

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