Sony releases official PS5 teardown video

Der_Blockbuster · Oct 8, 2020

sansnumen said:
It's concerning to see the NAND chips soldered onto the motherboard. The expected lifespan is 3-5 years on those before they fail. If it's not possible to install the PS5 OS on the user replaceable NVMe drive, PS5 systems will become expensive paperweights within a few years of use.

Source? Sounds like a hoax to me, most of Nintendo 3ds would be dead by now then

HarveyHouston · Oct 8, 2020

TBH, this is actually a pretty good video. Playstation has always had very good hardware designs, and several of its games are very well done. It's software is actually good too, which is why Playstation 2 was so well-received in the U.S. to become the best-selling console of all time.

However, my own disdain with Sony prevents me from just running right out there and buying this. Sony has had a shady track record; whistleblowers who worked at Sony claimed to have installed hardware that intentionally breaks the unit after the warranty expires. Then, there's also the "Nintendo Playstation", which leads me to believe that Sony stole ideas from Nintendo to create this Playstation console. Microsoft, however, is scary as hell. Almost literally. They've been known to spy on you (even kids!) through the Xbox console.

I'm a Nintendo fan always, but if I had to choose from the other two - Playstation or Xbox - it would be Playstation. No doubt.

sansnumen · Oct 8, 2020

Der_Blockbuster said:
Source? Sounds like a hoax to me, most of Nintendo 3ds would be dead by now then

It's not a hoax at all. It's a consequence of physics and materials engineering. A NAND chip fresh off the factory floor will display read and write errors. It comes with the territory. Every read and write cycle causes degradation of the NAND chips. Also, NAND chips degrade over time even if not in use, same as what happens to lithium ion batteries.

That's why NAND controllers have built in wear leveling and sometimes error correction.

If you look at the spec sheet for a Samsung 1 TB 970 EVO m.2 SSD, you will see that it's using MLC NAND rated at 5 years or 600 TBW. There are four types of NAND chips in use at this time: SLC, MLC, TLC, QLC. We still don't know which NAND type Sony decided to use. With TLC and QLC, more of the NAND needs to be reserved for wear leveling to reach the reliability of SLC and MLC.

As for why 3DS systems have not failed due to bad NAND chips, that's easy to explain. Internal NAND on 3DS is reserved for the OS and a partition for DSi games. The chips vary from 1 GB to 4 GB in size. These are high quality MLC chips. Seeing as there is minimal use of the internal NAND on 3DS and newer 3DS systems have 2 GB or 4 GB NAND chips with plenty of extra space for wear leveling many systems are not close to NAND death yet. On 3DS, microSD cards take the brunt of the abuse.

That about covers it.

subcon959 · Oct 8, 2020

It's absurd to think Sony would build a $500 console with a 3 year lifespan.

Paulsar99 · Oct 8, 2020

That thing is huge.

Foxi4 · Oct 8, 2020

sansnumen said:
It's not a hoax at all. It's a consequence of physics and materials engineering. A NAND chip fresh off the factory floor will display read and write errors. It comes with the territory. Every read and write cycle causes degradation of the NAND chips. Also, NAND chips degrade over time even if not in use, same as what happens to lithium ion batteries.

That's why NAND controllers have built in wear leveling and sometimes error correction.

If you look at the spec sheet for a Samsung 1 TB 970 EVO m.2 SSD, you will see that it's using MLC NAND rated at 5 years or 600 TBW. There are four types of NAND chips in use at this time: SLC, MLC, TLC, QLC. We still don't know which NAND type Sony decided to use. With TLC and QLC, more of the NAND needs to be reserved for wear leveling to reach the reliability of SLC and MLC.

As for why 3DS systems have not failed due to bad NAND chips, that's easy to explain. Internal NAND on 3DS is reserved for the OS and a partition for DSi games. The chips vary from 1 GB to 4 GB in size. These are high quality MLC chips. Seeing as there is minimal use of the internal NAND on 3DS and newer 3DS systems have 2 GB or 4 GB NAND chips with plenty of extra space for wear leveling many systems are not close to NAND death yet. On 3DS, microSD cards take the brunt of the abuse.

That about covers it.

NAND chips currently available on the market have estimated lifespans between 10-35 years, depending on type, specifically thanks to error correction, wear leveling and other techniques integrated in the SSD controller. It is *extremely* unlikely that those chips will fail in 3 years due to write wear, it's far more likely that they will fail for a variety of other reasons, mostly thermals. That SSD controller will likely croak before the memory does. The general estimate of an SSD's lifespan is "around 10 years" of continuous use, which is plenty. Even when Google researched this in their data centers they clocked 6 years on average, and those SSD's get hit *hard*. If you're particularly worried about keeping the on-board memory healthy for effectively an indefinite amount of time, avoid writing to it by installing everything on a removable M.2 stick, as you would with an SSD boot drive on a desktop. Leave the internal SSD just for system operations and your PS5 will be alive and kicking long after you yourself expire.

sansnumen · Oct 8, 2020

Foxi4 said:
NAND chips currently available on the market have estimated lifespans between 10-35 years, depending on type, specifically thanks to error correction, wear leveling and other techniques integrated in the SSD controller. It is *extremely* unlikely that those chips will fail in 3 years due to write wear, it's far more likely that they will fail for a variety of other reasons, mostly thermals. That SSD controller will likely croak before the memory does. The general estimate of an SSD's lifespan is "around 10 years" of continuous use, which is plenty. Even when Google researched this in their data centers they clocked 6 years on average, and those SSD's get hit *hard*. If you're particularly worried about keeping the on-board memory healthy for effectively an indefinite amount of time, avoid writing to it by installing everything on a removable M.2 stick, as you would with an SSD boot drive on a desktop. Leave the internal SSD just for system operations and your PS5 will be alive and kicking long after you yourself expire.

That's good to know about SSD longevity. Still, it would be nice if the NAND chips weren't soldered onto the board. At least the heatsink is a massive beast.

menist · Oct 8, 2020

Repair ability will be a breeze, which is good.

cashboxz01 · Oct 8, 2020

Awesome. now we don't have to watch some vlogger shilling for ad revenue with filler content and a 10:12 video.

I'm actually really really surprised by how modular and user serviceable they made this. who else is thinking of Noctua aftermarket fans for this? Or maybe even aluminum panels with tempered glass windows, and RGB fans.

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sudeki300 said:
rather buy one console than have to keep upgrading parts for silly money

This. At least you'll have the peace of mind that all games released for 7 years will be made to work on your system, since millions of other people are using the same hardware.

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codezer0 said:
Yeah, bull.

What they don't tell you is that there's probably some sensor to ensure your console is banned the moment it's opened, to either be flagged for it the next time it connects or something equally shady. Considering sony's history with blatant lies, do not discount them from thinking they could get away with such a thing.

Wow, literally in the first seconds it says even opening the console will void your warranty. Goes to show how much they don't care about right to repair.

it depends on the country. that was outlawed in usa. regardless, warranty is only a year, in which nothing is going to go wrong anyway.

Xzi · Oct 8, 2020

Damn that's crazy, it's mostly fan and heatsink. And liquid metal cooling on top of that?! Seems like Sony went the extra mile there.

Deleted User · Oct 8, 2020

Axido said:
Following the naming scheme of Xboxes lately, I'd rather expect an Xbox Series X X.

Let's get an Xbox One X Series X and confuse the crap out of preorders again

Crazystato · Oct 8, 2020

Sony will sell replacement/custom covers for sure. At least it won't be a half assed job like the PS4 clip on cover that only changed half of the console top

subcon959 · Oct 8, 2020

Xzi said:
Damn that's crazy, it's mostly fan and heatsink. And liquid metal cooling on top of that?! Seems like Sony went the extra mile there.

They probably had no choice, it will be interesting to see thermals once it's released.

netovsk · Oct 8, 2020

I want a PC-like experience! Are they introducing cheats?

yoyoyo69 · Oct 8, 2020

lokomelo said:
I'll tell something silly and useless, but I took this long to notice how big the PS5 is. I think it is the first time I saw it with a person next to it.

This is exactly what I've just been thinking to myself.

ciaomao · Oct 8, 2020

MohammedQ8 said:
Ps5 plastic looks and sounds very cheap.

—> subjective opinion

Acid_Snake · Oct 8, 2020

sansnumen said:
It's concerning to see the NAND chips soldered onto the motherboard. The expected lifespan is 3-5 years on those before they fail. If it's not possible to install the PS5 OS on the user replaceable NVMe drive, PS5 systems will become expensive paperweights within a few years of use.

PSP consoles from 2004 are still working fine, and so are PS3s (at least they don't fail due to NAND). If this console is going to have issues I doubt it will be the internal storage. I won't fully dismiss the possibility, but I'd put my money on overheating since we really don't know how good of a job that liquid metal is going to do in the long run.

Teletron1 · Oct 8, 2020

Acid_Snake said:
PSP consoles from 2004 are still working fine, and so are PS3s (at least they don't fail due to NAND). If this console is going to have issues I doubt it will be the internal storage. I won't fully dismiss the possibility, but I'd put my money on overheating since we really don't know how good of a job that liquid metal is going to do in the long run.

yeah as much as I want to get a launch model I’m hesitant because of the heat rumors the fact it’s big and has a huge heat sink pretty much indicates heat will be an issue like the PS3 fat so I’ll think and wait to see how the first batch goes before investing almost 700$ for system + game

Also I’m a say no to game hikes, digital already increases profit margins so no need to take more money for broken games :hrth:

RichardTheKing · Oct 8, 2020

Boesy said:
Well, they can't afford or don't want to spend on it.

For most people who want to game, they'd rather just buy a console, plug and play than buy parts for his/her PC.

Not really "plug and play" anymore, especially with the no-disc variant - these days, you have to "plug, wait for game/update to download, play", which isn't as convenient.

Acid_Snake · Oct 8, 2020

RichardTheKing said:
Not really "plug and play" anymore, especially with the no-disc variant - these days, you have to "plug, wait for game/update to download, play", which isn't as convenient.

This is mostly due to two reasons:
- Optical Media has stayed way too slow for game to stream assets from it.
- Games being a rushed out buggy mess that require a day one patch to be semi functional.

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