Nintendo Switch hackers Team Xecuter leaders arrested, charged in federal indictment

Joom · Oct 7, 2020

64bitmodels said:
i pay 300 dollars for a video game console i own that video game console
no one else does this "uhh you dont technically own this" BS only nintendo does it
this is why we hack switches, to give them the middle finger

Mm, no, every company in existence does it. Just because Nintendo actually pursues legal action in the video game sector doesn't mean others don't in other sectors. There's a reason why scene groups don't really make themselves public unless they're idiots. Sony is a major copyright hound when it comes to cinema and music. That's probably because they make more money from being a movie company and being a music label than they do from video games. You're absolutely delusional if you think Nintendo is the only company who doesn't like piracy. And sorry, but the reality is that you're paying for a license to use any hardware. That's what that long block of legalese is that you have to agree to when you boot any device for the first time. Upon doing so, you also agree to operate the hardware within the confines of that agreement. Piracy and homebrew aren't included in that, but we all know that Nintendo doesn't give a rat's ass about homebrew, and that's not why these arrests took place.

nachuz said:
If you have a job, then you deserve to lose your tools for piracy
Piracy should only be used by those who have no way of buying games, and if you have a job AND bought SX, you clearly can buy games, thief

Stealing is stealing. There's no justifying it when it comes to a luxury like video games. Just because you can't afford them doesn't mean you're any more deserving of them than those who can. You're just calling the kettle black here.

nachuz · Oct 7, 2020

Joom said:
Mm, no, every company in existence does it. Just because Nintendo actually pursues legal action in the video game sector doesn't mean others don't in other sectors. There's a reason why scene groups don't really make themselves public unless they're idiots. Sony is a major copyright hound when it comes to cinema and music. That's probably because they make more money from being a movie company and being a music label than they do from video games. You're absolutely delusional if you think Nintendo is the only company who doesn't like piracy. And sorry, but the reality is that you're paying for a license to use any hardware. That's what that long block of legalese is that you have to agree to when you boot any device for the first time. Upon doing so, you also agree to operate the hardware within the confines of that agreement. Piracy and homebrew aren't included in that, but we all know that Nintendo doesn't give a rat's ass about homebrew, and that's not why these arrests took place.

Stealing is stealing. There's no justifying it when it comes to a luxury like video games. Just because you can't afford them doesn't mean you're any more deserving of them than those who can. You're just calling the kettle black here.

Yeah, I think I worded it incorrectly
Whether you can afford games or not, it's still wrong, just that if you have the resources of buying those games, the problem becomes even worse
I pirate games because I'm 16 years old and I have no way of getting money to buy AAA games (I plan to abandon piracy as soon as I start getting money), and it's wrong and I wouldn't complain if I lost my means of pirating games, so yeah, the point is that you shouldn't be sad or angry if you suddenly can't pirate video games anymore, especially when video games aren't necessary on life and you have a job (which makes piracy even worse from a moral point) and I agree with your points

MK73DS · Oct 7, 2020

Joom said:
And sorry, but the reality is that you're paying for a license to use any hardware

I never signed or accepted any license when buying my Switch in store. I just own what I buy. I understand for digital content (games or software) because it was created only for this purpose, but the hardware is mine and I can do whatever I want with it.

realtimesave · Oct 7, 2020

nachuz said:
If you have a job, then you deserve to lose your tools for piracy
Piracy should only be used by those who have no way of buying games, and if you have a job AND bought SX, you clearly can buy games, thief

lol what a crock of shit. must be some entitled poor millenial thought process going on here. hope your head doesn't explode.

Legend Of Kay · Oct 7, 2020

64bitmodels said:
true pirates dont spend any money on anything besides just the console and maybe an sd card for it

“True pirates don’t spend any money except for these things that cost money that I say are okay because I decided so.”
Classic.

eyeliner · Oct 7, 2020

MikaDubbz said:
Indeed, I believe the DS was the Nintendo system that saw the most piracy from consumers, yet the DS is also Nintendo's best selling system to date (and narrowly misses the number 1 spot by less than a million units to the PS2).

It is the NES. Being actively pirated to this day.

leerpsp · Oct 7, 2020

smf said:
money laundering and wire fraud are just standard practices for illegal business, the us government doesn't inherently dislike it.

When they talk about wire fraud they usually mean sending money that happens to have been obtained through illegal means, not that you are doing anything specifically fraudulent with sending the money (which the law was probably intended for).

Laundering is just hiding the source of illegally obtained money, you are probably still paying taxes on it.

It's mostly theatrics for the court.

Offering a subscription for pirated games was probably their biggest mistake. They may have been able to make a fair use argument without that, if nintendo can prove the facts then there the case is a slam dunk.

I can't really say whether Nintendo will go after gbatemp or any of the people who post here, but any consequences will be up to individuals to deal with.

Yes I know how money laundering works but was not talking about that you changed my replay way to much there, I was talking about how Nintendo can not do anything about the use of free homebrew apps and games as its not illegal so this page is fine we don't do illegal stuff here, now we may talk about it but that is not illegal ether.
But yes if they were money laundering and they may have been then if they don't charge them for the selling of the mod chip then they will 100% get them for money Laundering.

subcon959 · Oct 7, 2020

Do some of you not realize you're arguing with little kids on the internet?

Flying Scotsman · Oct 7, 2020

depaul said:
Why allowing them to release the product in the first place? If it is illegal

Sony is much more efficient when it comes to fighting piracy, focusing on the security of their system instead of pursuing some people here and there.

Why allowing them to release the product in the first place? If it is illegal

The shops selling the product (as resellers) knew it was illegal but they stocked it anyway because they sold other mod chips etc so it was BAU for them. You won't see any TX stuff being sold in a Gamestop etc for example.

Sony is much more efficient when it comes to fighting piracy, focusing on the security of their system instead of pursuing some people here and there.

Sony started implementing actual security into the PS4 after the debacle of the PS3. The PS4 still was exploited multiple times however. The Xbone is a better comparison as the 360 was rife with glitch chips etc, and to my knowledge the XBone has not been cracked yet. There's an interesting talk from one of the system engineers about the measures they implemented and why.

It's also cheaper to sue a small group of people than it is to spend money on paying developers to plug the hole. Take2 has abused this stance suing GTA modders until recently when it was obvious suing people didn't work, and didn't magically fix your security holes being used by said modders. In 1.46 they finally pulled their finger out their asses and started paying devs to implement actual anti-cheat measures.

ChronoTrig · Oct 7, 2020

cashboxz01 said:
probably because the lawyer Nentindo hired is milking them. lawyer gets more work, gets paid more. their strategy is fkd tbh, as it's not a long-term viable solution. on the other hand, it's better for us since it allows us to explore the potential of the system. the security on the unpatched switch was laughable at best.

It takes time to make things stick or for a case to stick or it'll get thrown out. You can't simply state one thing and then hope it sticks, because the other person can also get a lawyer to make multiple points on your one point to say well, we have it because X Y Z, which is why this took so long to come to this.
Judges won't do much or grant something if it's just 1 thing. You need multiple points or it's a waste of a case. The lawyers didn't want to waste their chance for their client (Nintendo) by going for just 1 thing.

gizmomelb · Oct 7, 2020

MK73DS said:
I never signed or accepted any license when buying my Switch in store. I just own what I buy. I understand for digital content (games or software) because it was created only for this purpose, but the hardware is mine and I can do whatever I want with it.

Nope.. totally wrong, ill informed and immature... try searching for 'right to repair' and prepare to learn something about the hardware / cars / tractors / anything you buy and your ''ownership'' of it.

As you'll learn it's not just Nintendo who want to lock down not being able to modify devices which the consumer buys - locking down said devices with security and more importantly LAWS is one way companies can restrict what you can do with their devices and make sure you only use them how they want - usually as a long term gateway to software as a service with recurring billing, which has been the dream of many companies for the past decade or more.

We're already well on the way to losing ownership of any digital media, with the end user only renting access to it as long as the billing is paid. So you die or stop paying for your apple account? Goodbye itunes, all saved photos, messages etc. They do not belong to you any more (oh you took the photos and believe you own the copyright on them? Wrong.. the T&C which you agreed to when signing up means all files uploaded to the service become the property of said cloud service - applies to pretty much every cloud storage currently operating). If you die you can hand on your account credentials to siblings or children, but when / if the company gets notice you're deceased they can legally close the account and delete all information in it. SOME companies will allow placeholder accounts in memorium of the deceased, but not many.

sudeki300 · Oct 7, 2020

depaul said:
Why allowing them to release the product in the first place? If it is illegal

gues its nothing until its installed, not sure though

Sony is much more efficient when it comes to fighting piracy, focusing on the security of their system instead of pursuing some people here and there.

except their PSP, they were always playing catch up with dark alex, one the pandora battery and magic memory stick was released it was game over for sony.

MikaDubbz · Oct 7, 2020

eyeliner said:
It is the NES. Being actively pirated to this day.

No, the NES install base both wasn't nearly as large as the DS install base, and the NES didn't have a million different flashcard options while it was active (or even now, it has some now, but these were never as popular as the likes of the R4 card for the DS). NES may have seen piracy for the longest, but the DS is undeniably the Nintendo system that saw more piracy than any other Nintendo system (though the Wii is definitely up there too).

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

depaul said:
Why allowing them to release the product in the first place? If it is illegal

Sony is much more efficient when it comes to fighting piracy, focusing on the security of their system instead of pursuing some people here and there.

*Cough* GeoHot *Cough*

Volthax · Oct 7, 2020

Would it be possible to buy a SX Core/Lite and use less superior firmware Atmosphere to keep the system updated till the end of all time? Or can Nintendo patch the modchip as a whole?

eyeliner · Oct 7, 2020

MikaDubbz said:
No, the NES install base both wasn't nearly as large as the DS install base, and the NES didn't have a million different flashcard options while it was active (or even now, it has some now, but these were never as popular as the likes of the R4 card for the DS). NES may have seen piracy for the longest, but the DS is undeniably the Nintendo system that saw more piracy than any other Nintendo system (though the Wii is definitely up there too).

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

*Cough* GeoHot *Cough*

Famiclones. Famiclones everywhere! Cheaper than a flashcard most of the times, two gamepads and with a lightgun to boot.

Volthax said:
Would it be possible to buy a SX Core/Lite and use less superior firmware Atmosphere to keep the system updated till the end of all time? Or can Nintendo patch the modchip as a whole?

I'd wager they will eventually get the chips code narrowed down (and probably the litigation will certainly help) and blacklist the chip, like it happened with NDS flashcards.

sudeki300 · Oct 7, 2020

Volthax said:
Would it be possible to buy a SX Core/Lite and use less superior firmware Atmosphere to keep the system updated till the end of all time? Or can Nintendo patch the modchip as a whole?

why do you think atmosphere is less superior?

britain4 · Oct 7, 2020

I really don't see any point speculating whether we will or won't get any more updates for the chip, the existing members of TX might keep it going, we might see third-party support with cracked boot.dat files or it might disappear into obscurity and stop working, who really knows.

In the worst case hopefully the "genuine boot" option can still be used to get into our sysnands while we keep our emunands on 10.2.0. Or a special Hekate payload compatible with the chip will be produced or.. something.

Zaiphon · Oct 7, 2020

Volthax said:
Would it be possible to buy a SX Core/Lite and use less superior firmware Atmosphere to keep the system updated till the end of all time? Or can Nintendo patch the modchip as a whole?

Let me tell you something.
TX is using the atmosphere Code.
Big Gasp

TurtlePowerrr · Oct 7, 2020

Joom said:
And sorry, but the reality is that you're paying for a license to use any hardware.

Um NO dude. If I buy any hardware then I completely own it outright it's not a license. You are wrong on so many levels. Software is a different beast but the physical hardware isn't licensed. Basically you are telling me if I go buy a car at the local dealership and pay cash for it, according to you it's just licensed? I think NOT. Get a clue dude

Kioku · Oct 7, 2020

gizmomelb said:
Nope.. totally wrong, ill informed and immature... try searching for 'right to repair' and prepare to learn something about the hardware / cars / tractors / anything you buy and your ''ownership'' of it.

As you'll learn it's not just Nintendo who want to lock down not being able to modify devices which the consumer buys - locking down said devices with security and more importantly LAWS is one way companies can restrict what you can do with their devices and make sure you only use them how they want - usually as a long term gateway to software as a service with recurring billing, which has been the dream of many companies for the past decade or more.

We're already well on the way to losing ownership of any digital media, with the end user only renting access to it as long as the billing is paid. So you die or stop paying for your apple account? Goodbye itunes, all saved photos, messages etc. They do not belong to you any more (oh you took the photos and believe you own the copyright on them? Wrong.. the T&C which you agreed to when signing up means all files uploaded to the service become the property of said cloud service - applies to pretty much every cloud storage currently operating). If you die you can hand on your account credentials to siblings or children, but when / if the company gets notice you're deceased they can legally close the account and delete all information in it. SOME companies will allow placeholder accounts in memorium of the deceased, but not many.

"Right to repair" doesn't null ownership of the device. Talk about ill-informed... It just means that your warranty is null should you open it and modify it.

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