Widespread reports of RTX 3080 and 3090 Cards Crashing

NVIDIA-Bottom-POSCAP-vs-MLCC-IgorsLAB-1200x351.jpg

There have been more and more reports circulating around the internet over the last few days reporting that a wide range of Nvidia RTX 3080 and 3090 graphics cards are experiencing crashes to desktop while gaming. A investigation by the igors Lab website has found that the issue may be caused by bad power delivery due to the type of capacitors some third party manufacturers have used in their production. It is theorised that when boosting past 2.0 GHz clock speeds, cards that have excluded MLCC capacitors, Multi Layer Ceramic Chip Capacitors, are more prone to crashes. Teardowns have shown that some cards in the series from third parties only use cheaper POSCAP style capacitors (Conductive Polymer Tantalum Solid Capacitors) on the back of the GPU. Nvidia's founders edition card and more high end cards use a mix of the two types of capacitors. It is being speculated that just having one MLCC capacitor out of the six capacitors on the back of the GPU can negate crashes completely.

Most third party manufacturers have not yet commented on the issue. But on their forums EVGA released the following statement which pretty much confirms the theories that have been circulating.

"During our mass production QC testing we discovered a full 6 POSCAPs solution cannot pass the real world applications testing. It took almost a week of R&D effort to find the cause and reduce the POSCAPs to 4 and add 20 MLCC caps prior to shipping production boards, this is why the EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 series was delayed at launch. There were no 6 POSCAP production EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 boards shipped.

But, due to the time crunch, some of the reviewers were sent a pre-production version with 6 POSCAP’s, we are working with those reviewers directly to replace their boards with production versions.
EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 XC3 series with 5 POSCAPs + 10 MLCC solution is matched with the XC3 spec without issues"


What does this mean for people who already have received their cards? There has been no word regarding a recall just yet. But If you are experiencing crashes a slight underclock may help. Likely some kind of BIOs upgrade to affected cards will utilise a similar fix to patch the problem, but will disappointingly slow down your cards boost clock in the process.

For those like myself who have their card on pre-order if you can confirm your chosen card has MLCC capacitors you should be relatively safe. If your card only contains POSCAP capacitors you would be better off cancelling your order, and waiting to see if this issue is fixable without underclocking or having a product recall.

:arrow: Link to Igors Lab Article on the Issue
:arrow: EVGA Forum Statement
 

Tom Bombadildo

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I think people are sort of jumping the gun here on blaming purely the capacitors, as it's not just third party cards that have issues crashing, Nvidia's FE and EVGA's FTW card that have the "proper" caps also have been reported to have the same issue by users despite EVGA's claim of FTW3's working fine. I'd reckon it's more down to a VBIOS/driver issue somewhere along the line as opposed to purely caps being the issue (though I'm sure, at the least, it's related). The fact that it seems to only be crashing hitting a certain frequency as opposed to something like hitting a specific power limit makes me think the issue is a lot more complicated than just cheap components.

I've got a Zotac Trinity 3080 myself, which used all 6 POSCAPs (AKA the "bad" ones), but it only boosts to 1950mhz so I haven't had any crashes yet in the couple days I've had the card now (and I've been pushing this thing real hard, doing lots of benchmarking and game testing at 4k :P), so I'm not too bothered by the problem myself. Though if the issue is actually cap related and Zotac allows RMA replacements for one, I'll most likely do that.

That said, I'd still wait to grab a new GPU anyways so they can work out the kinks, as always you shouldn't buy a launch GPU in case it has issues like this. I only did so because I have the cash to burn now and likely wouldn't later and I don't mind being an early tester for things like this :P
 

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I think people are sort of jumping the gun here on blaming purely the capacitors, as it's not just third party cards that have issues crashing,

Because it's Nvidia, got to set the narative early that's it's someone elses fault (in this case trying to blame the aib partners). Nothing is ever Nvidia's fault. Any issues Nvidia have are always downplayed or blame shifted to someone else by a large portion of people online.
 

p1ngpong

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I think people are sort of jumping the gun here on blaming purely the capacitors, as it's not just third party cards that have issues crashing, Nvidia's FE and EVGA's FTW card that have the "proper" caps also have been reported to have the same issue by users despite EVGA's claim of FTW3's working fine. I'd reckon it's more down to a VBIOS/driver issue somewhere along the line as opposed to purely caps being the issue (though I'm sure, at the least, it's related). The fact that it seems to only be crashing hitting a certain frequency as opposed to something like hitting a specific power limit makes me think the issue is a lot more complicated than just cheap components.

I've got a Zotac Trinity 3080 myself, which used all 6 POSCAPs (AKA the "bad" ones), but it only boosts to 1950mhz so I haven't had any crashes yet in the couple days I've had the card now (and I've been pushing this thing real hard, doing lots of benchmarking and game testing at 4k :P), so I'm not too bothered by the problem myself. Though if the issue is actually cap related and Zotac allows RMA replacements for one, I'll most likely do that.

That said, I'd still wait to grab a new GPU anyways so they can work out the kinks, as always you shouldn't buy a launch GPU in case it has issues like this. I only did so because I have the cash to burn now and likely wouldn't later and I don't mind being an early tester for things like this :P
It is still unknown what exactly causes the crashes. But going by what EVGA said and what other people have discovered the capacitor issue is definitely a big part of it. EVGA would not have changed their production and delayed their card roll out if this was not a serious issue. People who have slightly lowered the voltage and clock have also fixed the issue that way, hopefully this is not a fundemental flaw in the architecture that just gets aggravated by bad caps. Nvidias reference was always to have at least one or two banks of the better caps on the GPU, it is actually really shitty that a lot of third party producers ignored this.

It is a bit of a lottery now whether you get a good or bad card, if you have lucked out things will only get better and more stable through time. In my case I had not received my card yet and my retailer said I would likely not get it until the end of October/November. In my case it is totally not worth the wait and risk so I cancelled.

This really has taught me a bit of a lesson, despite my better judgement and experience I went and pre-ordered un-reviewed and untested hardware. That definitely will not happen again.
 

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Who paid anything for the spyware that windows 10 is? They gave it away for free for years, pretty sure it still is free somewhow. You could even just install a cracked license on 7 and update to 10..
hell even that is unusable without multiple de-bloat scripts and registry changes
 
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Jensen - "To all my Pascal gamer friends, it is safe to upgrade now"

My 1080Ti: Bitch please, I'm not crashy and still rocking very well.
 

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This can be fixed in firmware and it looks like you could fix the caps yourself if you really wanted.

It's not going to be a huge issue, but we should hope that Nvidia learns their lesson and gives AIB partners a basic driver that can push the cards for testing.
 
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eyeliner

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Bummer, this will prevent me from getting a new computer and game like a boss. Despite not having the moneys for it, this will not help me in getting it.
Just as I was thinking of not getting one, and this news drops. Must be fate. Or something like that.

Sorry, guys.
 
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Foxi4

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In other words, stick with the Founders Edition cards.
They're not always the best, to be honest. Often times third-party cards have much better VRM, and they almost universally have better cooling - especially for the last couple of generations when NVidia was infatuated with blower-style coolers that, albeit very "cool-looking" , are simply less efficient than two or three enormous fans, plus they tend to be louder and push less air, it's not an optimal configuration. This generation the stock cooler is a bit more interesting and worth testing long-term, but the Founders PCB is *not* the stock PCB on many SKU's, it has weird cut-outs for the new fan system which will necessitate waterblock manufacturers creating separate cooling solutions for stock and reference, which is just plain weird. It's hard to call the Founders Edition the "stock" card when it's not using a stock, reference PCB. They do get first pick in binning though, so you get top shelf chips. That said, usually (not always), top-end manufacturers are capable of surpassing the Founders in performance just on the basis of better VRM and better cooling, both of which are essential when trying to boost the card as hard as possible. It's... a weird generation. We've had a lot of weird generations lately.
 
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ASUS can...do a lot of things, because I could not use my desktop PC for months due to the mobo fucking up on me. Thankfully, ASRock hasn't let me down yet!
I bought an Asus TUF GAMING x570 Plus Wi-Fi motherboard, and it's fantastic, but nothing I would do in the BIOS or Windows would get the Ethernet working. Pissed me off they sold me a bunk board. Especially when x570 motherboards were really hard to find in June that weren't disgustingly overpriced. I paid $100 more than retail just to secure it, and the goddamn Ethernet is broken. Had to buy a cheap Rosewill PCIe card just to get Ethernet.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

They're not always the best, to be honest. Often times third-party cards have much better VRM, and they almost universally have better cooling - especially for the last couple of generations when NVidia was infatuated with blower-style coolers that, albeit very "cool-looking" , are simply less efficient than two or three enormous fans, plus they tend to be louder and push less air, it's not an optimal configuration. This generation the stock cooler is a bit more interesting and worth testing long-term, but the Founders PCB is *not* the stock PCB on many SKU's, it has weird cut-outs for the new fan system which will necessitate waterblock manufacturers creating separate cooling solutions for stock and reference, which is just plain weird. It's hard to call the Founders Edition the "stock" card when it's not using a stock, reference PCB. They do get first pick in binning though, so you get top shelf chips. That said, usually (not always), top-end manufacturers are capable of surpassing the Founders in performance just on the basis of better VRM and better cooling, both of which are essential when trying to boost the card as hard as possible. It's... a weird generation. We've had a lot of weird generations lately.
What's funny is if you pluck out every other fin, the fans can move more air and are a bit quieter as a result. They put the fins too close, and that's why they're so damn noisy.
 
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