[POLL] 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

Foxi4 · Sep 16, 2020

Lacius said:
If Harris becomes VP, it's because she was elected by the people.

And yes, what you're spouting is an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory no better than any kind of "the election has already been decided by guys in suits in a room somewhere" conspiracy theories.

Unsubstantiated besides all the evidence that's right in front of our eyes, but alright. If you don't think that there's a stark difference between how Obama era Biden spoke and how he speaks now, that's fine. It is my opinion that one would have to be myopic not to see just how much the man has aged, and I also believe that the DNC is well-aware of that. It would be *foolish* not to plan for that eventuality.

omgcat · Sep 17, 2020

Foxi4 said:
Unsubstantiated besides all the evidence that's right in front of our eyes, but alright. If you don't think that there's a stark difference between how Obama era Biden spoke and how he speaks now, that's fine. It is my opinion that one would have to be myopic not to see just how much the man has aged, and I also believe that the DNC is well-aware of that. It would be *foolish* not to plan for that eventuality.

hey, Trump has had unscheduled visits to an external hospital that focuses on neurological damage. The white house has a medical unit that is capable of handling both emergency and trauma scale scenarios, and has a full compound pharmacy. you don't think the fact that he had to go to a hospital specializing in one of the only things the WHMU can't handle (neurology) is a red flag? Biden was seen riding a bike in the last month, as well as having a much better BMI than trump. I wouldn't be worried about Biden making it through the next 4 years. also anyone who talks about Biden's speech issues like it is an indication of dementia is ignorant of the stutter he has had for years. Biden also never bragged about how hard a dementia test is.

There is some serious projection coming from the GOP on this front.

Here is an article written in 2011 about his stutter, while he was in office: https://people.com/celebrity/joe-biden-opens-up-about-childhood-stuttering-problem/
He also has a page on the stuttering foundation: https://www.stutteringhelp.org/content/joe-biden

also a speech about stuttering he gave in 2010: https://www.nais.org/magazine/indep...den-reveals-childhood-stuttering-at-lab-scho/

Foxi4 · Sep 17, 2020

omgcat said:
hey, Trump has had unscheduled visits to an external hospital that focuses on neurological damage. The white house has a medical unit that is capable of handling both emergency and trauma scale scenarios, and has a full compound pharmacy. you don't think the fact that he had to go to a hospital specializing in one of the only things the WHMU can't handle (neurology) is a red flag? Biden was seen riding a bike in the last month, as well as having a much better BMI than trump. I wouldn't be worried about Biden making it through the next 4 years. also anyone who talks about Biden's speech issues like it is an indication of dementia is ignorant of the stutter he has had for years. Biden also never bragged about how hard a dementia test is.

There is some serious projection coming from the GOP on this front.

Here is an article written in 2011 about his stutter, while he was in office: https://people.com/celebrity/joe-biden-opens-up-about-childhood-stuttering-problem/
He also has a page on the stuttering foundation: https://www.stutteringhelp.org/content/joe-biden

also a speech about stuttering he gave in 2010: https://www.nais.org/magazine/indep...den-reveals-childhood-stuttering-at-lab-scho/

Is it a GOP projection or a Democrat reading problem? Biden has dealt with stuttering *throughout his childhood and into his twenties*, he overcame his speech impediment before anyone participating in this discussion was even alive. Your own links confirm that, particularly the second and third one. Have fun with that selective memory though.

You're putting more kerosene on the fire - thank you for providing us with documentation proving that he had a stuttering problem as a child, overcame it as an adult and has now regressed in his senior years. That's the point everyone's making - that he's mentally declining.

omgcat · Sep 17, 2020

Foxi4 said:
Is it a GOP projection or a Democrat reading problem? Biden has dealt with stuttering *throughout his childhood and into his twenties*, he overcame his speech impediment before anyone participating in this discussion was even alive. Your own links confirm that, particularly the second and third one. Have fun with that selective memory though.

You're putting more kerosene on the fire - thank you for providing us with documentation proving that he had a stuttering problem as a child, overcame it as an adult and has now regressed in his senior years. That's the point everyone's making - that he's mentally declining.

You don't permanently overcome a disability like stuttering. it is a life long problem that needs constant management. like anxiety, it can peek through occasionally, and sometimes your coping strategies might not work when you need it.

information about stuttering: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-causes-stuttering-an/

"There is no known cure for stuttering, though many treatment approaches have proven successful for helping speakers reduce the number of disfluencies in their speech."

It is a little distressing that you are arguing in bad faith as a moderator. you do not even try to back up your claims, and claim someone does not read their own sources.

even a cursory google search would reveal that stuttering and it's outcomes entirely depends on when therapy was obtained, and that there is no sure fire cure for it.

Deleted User · Sep 17, 2020

omgcat said:
You don't permanently overcome a disability like stuttering. it is a life long problem that needs constant management. like anxiety, it can peek through occasionally, and sometimes your coping strategies might not work when you need it.

information about stuttering: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-causes-stuttering-an/

"There is no known cure for stuttering, though many treatment approaches have proven successful for helping speakers reduce the number of disfluencies in their speech."

It is a little distressing that you are arguing in bad faith as a moderator. you do not even try to back up your claims, and claim someone does not read their own sources.

even a cursory google search would reveal that stuttering and it's outcomes entirely depends on when therapy was obtained, and that there is no sure fire cure for it.

I can speak from personal experience, yeah no it doesn't go away. I used to stutter every sentence, or more specifically the start of nearly all of them, that was around, from 5-12, around twelve I had some therapy, it helped a lot. but it didn't outright remove it, it just helped reduce the frequency of it.
However I'd imagine that as you age it comes back like a brick. (more specifically, starts coming back around idk 50? 60? not entirely certain when.)

Foxi4 · Sep 17, 2020

omgcat said:
You don't permanently overcome a disability like stuttering. it is a life long problem that needs constant management. like anxiety, it can peek through occasionally, and sometimes your coping strategies might not work when you need it.

information about stuttering: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-causes-stuttering-an/

"There is no known cure for stuttering, though many treatment approaches have proven successful for helping speakers reduce the number of disfluencies in their speech."

It is a little distressing that you are arguing in bad faith as a moderator. you do not even try to back up your claims, and claim someone does not read their own sources.

even a cursory google search would reveal that stuttering and it's outcomes entirely depends on when therapy was obtained, and that there is no sure fire cure for it.

It's really a joy arguing with you guys, it's so rare to meet people who are capable of holding two contradictory ideas in their heads simultaneously. Biden himself has explained in the interview you provided that he's managed to find a way to avoid stuttering by changing his cadence. That doesn't mean he was magically cured, but it does mean that his ability to speak has improved dramatically, which was observable throughout his career.

There are so many "bad faith" arguments on the Democrat side that are at odds with reality one is spoiled for choice when it comes to discussions like this. Trump now has "neurological damage", he's also a mastermind behind an international scheme aimed at changing the results of an election - simultaneously a vegetable and a genius. He's a horrible businessman with a proven track record of failure and bankruptcy, he's also somehow making millions via some undisclosed means - he's bad with money, but he's also good with money. He's not charitable at all, besides that time when he gave the entirety of his presidential paycheck to charitable causes - he doesn't donate any of his money, except for the times when he does. Biden is not in the state of mental decline because he knows how to ride a bicycle, an achievement you'd praise a child for, not a grown man that consistently makes up stories that his audience needs to unravel into multiple separate stories before they make sense - he's fit as a fiddle, except the fiddle is out of tune. Trump is a bad president because he golfs 5 days a week, that also makes him physically unfit somehow - he's a fat sportsman.

It's hard to treat conversations like this seriously, it really is. So now, after all is said and done, I'm not allowed to have an opinion because "I'm a moderator". Alright, have it your way, I've said my peace already. Biden invented a coping strategy for his stuttering problem, a strategy which now fails him at an alarming rate, which wasn't the case in the past. That is, by definition, mental regression. He gained, and lost, an ability. I don't need a "cursory google search" to confirm that, I have eyes and ears. You're more than welcome to have a different opinion, but while we're on the subject of coping mechanisms, I think you should have a long look in the mirror before you point that accusatory finger at me - I see a lot of coping going on, and it's not coming from my camp.

omgcat · Sep 17, 2020

Foxi4 said:
It's really a joy arguing with you guys, it's so rare to meet people who are capable of holding two contradictory ideas in their heads simultaneously. Biden himself has explained in the interview you provided that he's managed to find a way to avoid stuttering by changing his cadence. That doesn't mean he magically got cured, but it does mean that his ability to speak has improved dramatically, which was observable throughout his career.

There are so many "bad faith" arguments on the Democrat side that are at odds with reality one is spoiled for choice when it comes to discussions like this. Trump now has "neurological damage", he's also a mastermind behind an international scheme aimed at changing the results of an election - simultaneously a vegetable and a genius. He's a horrible businessman with a proven track record of failure and bankruptcy, he's also somehow making millions via some undisclosed means - he's bad with money, but he's also good with money. He's not charitable at all, besides that time when he gave the entirety of his presidential paycheck to charitable causes - he doesn't donate any of his money, except for the times when he does. Biden is not in the state of mental decline because he knows how to ride a bicycle, an achievement you'd praise a child for, not a grown man that consistently makes up stories that his audience needs to unravel into multiple separate stories before they make sense - he's fit as a fiddle, except the fiddle is out of tune. Trump is a bad president because he golfs 5 days a week, that also makes him physically unfit somehow - he's a fat sportsman.

It's hard to treat conversations like this seriously, it really is. So now, after all is said and done, I'm not allowed to have an opinion because "I'm a moderator". Alright, have it your way, I've said my peace already. Biden invented a coping strategy for his stuttering problem, a strategy which now fails him at an alarming rate, which wasn't the case in the past. That is, by definition, mental regression. He gained, and lost, an ability. I don't need a "cursory google search" to confirm that, I have eyes and ears. You're more than welcome to have a different opinion, but while we're on the subject of coping mechanisms, I think you should have a long look in the mirror before you point that accusatory finger at me - I see a lot of coping going on, and it's not coming from my camp.

I am tackling arguments on a person to person basis. I am responding to what you post, posting links for my claims, and am trying to make an effort to not wrap you up with your political party. I had hoped you would do the same. as a libertarian, you should hate partisan politics, as all it does is gum up stuff, yet you clump me in with the democrats, and talk about "my side, and your side". just like that other guy flat out calling me a communist, you are painting me with a general brush. by grouping me with a political party, you are trying to use partisan politics to waive away arguments you don't like. if you were actually a libertarian, you wouldn't identify with "a side". claims made by other groups are not my claims. i use my own eyes and ears to determine my beliefs, and seek out the truth on my own.

Deleted User · Sep 17, 2020

Foxi4 said:
It's really a joy arguing with you guys, it's so rare to meet people who are capable of holding two contradictory ideas in their heads simultaneously. Biden himself has explained in the interview you provided that he's managed to find a way to avoid stuttering by changing his cadence. That doesn't mean he magically got cured, but it does mean that his ability to speak has improved dramatically, which was observable throughout his career.

And his stuttering comeback. I rather take someone who stutters, than someone who can't make a proper sentence or has really long tirades and goes so far off topic it's hard to follow, along with being a liar.

Foxi4 said:
There are so many "bad faith" arguments on the Democrat side that are at odds with reality one is spoiled for choice when it comes to discussions like this. Trump now has "neurological damage", he's also a mastermind behind an international scheme aimed at changing the results of an election - simultaneously a vegetable and a genius.

Trump is a pathological liar. He's no mastermind. He realizes he is down, he realizes that people don't like him, and his response is not to try to resolve conflicts with people, it's not to try to outreach to people. No his response is to cover it up, and lie. Why did he lie about covid? To cover stocks and try to protect his reelection. He learned of it, and lied to the public. That blew up in his face hard, so his next step, is to tackle the vote. It's not a big brain 300 iq play. If your a criminal, this would come to mind. you see things you can use to your advantage. it doesn't make you smart for seeing them. it's called working in a angle.

It's like saying a left handed person is much smarter than a right handed person in tennis just because the left handed person shots don't match what the right hand person is used to. it's not the case at all, it's just a difference in perspective.

Foxi4 said:
He's a horrible businessman with a proven track record of failure and bankrupcy, he's also somehow making millions via some undisclosed means - he's bad with money, but he's also good with money.

That's a really horrible argument. Again, think it this way, if your lived you life as a cheat, you already know the cheat sheet. it doesn't require much thought to use said cheat sheet. A lot of the shit he opened up was close down because it was illegal. He's bad with money, and he's good at getting money illegally or using the power of his presidency to get more cash.

Foxi4 said:
He's not charitable at all, besides that time when he gave the entirety of his presidential paycheck to charitable causes - he doesn't donate any of his money, except for the times when he does.

yes and? does it change that he is liar and proved that he's only out to cover his ass?
No?
then it doesn't matter

Foxi4 said:
Biden is not in the state of mental decline because he knows how to ride a bicycle, an achievement you'd praise a child for, not a grown man that consistently makes up stories that his audience needs to unravel into multiple separate stories before they make sense - he's fit as a fiddle, except the fiddle is out of tune. Trump is a bad president because he golfs 5 days a week, that also makes him physically unfit somehow - he's a fat sportsman.

Trump plays golf, the least physically active sport you can play, the guy is also obese. Obesity is generally unhealthy.
Biden is normal bmi, meaning he doesn't deal with the consequences that comes from obesity.

Foxi4 said:
It's hard to treat conversations like this seriously, it really is. So now, after all is said and done, I'm not allowed to have an opinion because "I'm a moderator". Alright, have it your way, I've said my peace already. Biden invented a coping strategy for his stuttering problem, a strategy which now fails him at an alarming rate, which wasn't the case in the past. That is, by definition, mental regression. He gained, and lost, an ability. I don't need a "cursory google search" to confirm that, I have eyes and ears. You're more than welcome to have a different opinion, but while we're on the subject of coping mechanisms, I think you should have a long look in the mirror before you point that accusatory finger at me - I see a lot of coping going on, and it's not coming from my camp.

What's worse, a regression with speech?
or a regression in ability to create proper sentences or drink fucking water, or have these strange hospital trips, or for some reason, bringing up a mini stroke when no one said he was, and being a liar.

Foxi4 · Sep 17, 2020

omgcat said:
I am tackling arguments on a person to person basis. I am responding to what you post, posting links for my claims, and am trying to make an effort to not wrap you up with your political party. I had hoped you would do the same. as a libertarian, you should hate partisan politics, as all it does is gum up stuff, yet you clump me in with the democrats, and talk about "my side, and your side". just like that other guy flat out calling me a communist, you are painting me with a general brush. by grouping me with a political party, you are trying to use partisan politics to waive away arguments you don't like. if you were actually a libertarian, you wouldn't identify with "a side".

The only reason why that's the case is because so far you've been parroting typical talking point, and I've heard them all before. My alarm bells are ringing when I hear the same tired arguments, they always seem like a checklist one has to go through. If that's a misattribution then I do apologise. To be perfectly honest I don't like Republicans, at least modern Republicans, and I don't consider Trump to be one. Until five minutes ago, in historical terms, he's been a New York Democrat in the construction industry - I believe he's only switched sides in 2012. To be fair though, he's changed his party affiliation multiple times over the years, so calling him anything is fair game, but that's besides the point.

As a non-American I have no particular attachment to either side of the aisle, I support the side that best forwards my interests, and right now that's Trump. Tomorrow it might be somebody else - who knows? It's most certainly not the Libertarian party, those guys are the definition of "they did not send their best". Very funny though, I like the viral clips, like the naked guy flopping around on stage, or the in-earnest argument in regards to selling hard drugs to minors, or the Nazi Cakes. It's a shame that the party that has the most to offer has the absolute worst representatives.

Deleted User · Sep 17, 2020

Should I mention the amount of time he also spends golfing than doing his actual job? or the fact he admitted to watching fox news for about 7 hours? Not straight, 4 of them were roughly as he was going to bed, and the other three when he woke up.
No person on the planet watches the news THAT much. especially if your the goddamn president

Foxi4 · Sep 17, 2020

monkeyman4412 said:
And his stuttering comeback. I rather take someone who stutters, than someone who can't make a proper sentence or has really long tirades and goes so far off topic it's hard to follow, along with being a liar.

Trump is a pathological liar. He's no mastermind. He realizes he is down, he realizes that people don't like him, and his response is not to try to resolve conflicts with people, it's not to try to outreach to people. No his response is to cover it up, and lie. Why did he lie about covid? To cover stocks and try to protect his reelection. He learned of it, and lied to the public. That blew up in his face hard, so his next step, is to tackle the vote. It's not a big brain 300 iq play. If your a criminal, this would come to mind. you see things you can use to your advantage. it doesn't make you smart for seeing them. it's called working in a angle.

It's like saying a left handed person is much smarter than a right handed person in tennis just because the left handed person shots don't match what the right hand person is used to. it's not the case at all, it's just a difference in perspective.

That's a really horrible argument. Again, think it this way, if your lived you life as a cheat, you already know the cheat sheet. it doesn't require much thought to use said cheat sheet. A lot of the shit he opened up was close down because it was illegal. He's bad with money, and he's good at getting money illegally or using the power of his presidency to get more cash.

yes and? does it change that he is liar and proved that he's only out to cover his ass?
No?
then it doesn't matter

Trump plays golf, the least physically active sport you can play, the guy is also obese. Obesity is generally unhealthy.
Biden is normal bmi, meaning he doesn't deal with the consequences that comes from obesity.

What's worse, a regression with speech?
or a regression in ability to create proper sentences or drink fucking water, or have these strange hospital trips, or for some reason, bringing up a mini stroke when no one said he was, and being a liar.

That whole water thing really riles people up, it's just too funny. I should start drinking like that too, just for giggles.

Deleted User · Sep 17, 2020

Foxi4 said:
That whole water thing really riles people up, it's just too funny. I should start drinking like that too, just for giggles.

and? does it change what I said?
I mean if we just remove that, what are we left with?
A liar who only cares for himself, a man that can't construct proper sentences. Or the reflections he is saying. Such as him telling everyone he doesn't have mini strokes, when nobody asked.
A person who is spending waaay too much time golfing, and tweeting for someone who is supposed to be a leader.
A man who watches fox news for multiple hours in a day.
that person is unfit to be leader.

chrisrlink · Sep 17, 2020

considering how unpopular he is (which i believe is the truth) he might result to "other means" to keep power shit the US might become the new china

Foxi4 · Sep 17, 2020

monkeyman4412 said:
and? does it change what I said?
I mean if we just remove that, what are we left with?
A liar who only cares for himself, a man that can't construct proper sentences. Or the reflections he is saying. Such as him telling everyone he doesn't have mini strokes, when nobody asked.
A person who is spending waaay too much time golfing, and tweeting for someone who is supposed to be a leader.
A man who watches fox news for multiple hours in a day.
that person is unfit to be leader.

I'm not really sure how to respond to that. The fact that you believe he did in fact watch Fox News on loop for a ludicrous amount of time and *wasn't* just saying that as part of his marketing strategy should give you some indication of whether your take is reasonable or not. Trump says a lot of things, he's a showman running a show. What matters is what he's doing while you guys are distracted by the funny way he holds a glass of water. Has it ever crossed your mind that the man does and says outrageous things to divert your attention from what he's really doing?

That’s a rhetorical question. I'm asking it because that's what's happening. Wink wink.

Deleted User · Sep 17, 2020

Foxi4 said:
I'm not really sure how to respond to that. The fact that you believe he did in fact watch Fox News on loop for a ludicrous amount of time and *wasn't* just saying that as part of his marketing strategy should give you some indication of whether your take is reasonable or not. Trump says a lot of things, he's a showman running a show. What matters is what he's doing while you guys are distracted by the funny way he holds a glass of water. Has it ever crossed your mind that the nan does and says outrageous things to divert your attention from what he's really doing?

That’s a rhetorical question. I'm asking it because that's what's happening. Wink wink.

again does it change what I said?
it doesn't divert me from the bullshit he's done it's only additive to why he needs to get removed.
and I'm not switching conversations, as you kinda just tried to do that.

Foxi4 · Sep 17, 2020

chrisrlink said:
considering how unpopular he is (which i believe is the truth) he might result to "other means" to keep power shit the US might become the new china

Talk about conspiracy theories.

monkeyman4412 said:
again does it change what I said?
it doesn't divert me from the bullshit he's done it's only additive to why he needs to get removed.
and I'm not switching conversations, as you kinda just tried to do that.

It doesn't change what you've said, no - it does change the paradigm. If you expect honesty in the world of politics, I don't think you've been paying a whole lot of attention to it until recently. My view isn't popular, and I can understand why, but if I'm sending an agent into the world of conmen and shysters, I want him to be the best crook I can find that forwards my agenda.

In regards to "lying about COVID", I don't remember that happening. I remember him saying that he didn't want to cause a panic, both privately *and* publicly, so I don't quite understand why it came as a surprise when Woodward published his book. Based on the conflicting information he had at his disposal at the time it was the responsible thing to do - stop all travel from the primary affected area (he got called a racist for that, by the way) and keep things slow and steady until the situation is clearer. I *do* remember the WHO saying that there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission, I remember the liberal media drumming the "it's just a flu, bro" drum and I remember Nancy Pelosi cruising through San Francisco's Chinatown to show everybody that it's totally safe and nothing's going on. How come all that gets memory holed and Trump, of all people, gets the blame when for all intents and purposes he was the only politician treating this virus seriously before it got bad? A lot of COVID response burden was not up to the fed, it was up to the individual state governments, and we saw exactly how that turned out in New York. Are you going to demand that the governor resigns? Just curious, since we're playing the blame game now, it seems.

Deleted User · Sep 17, 2020

Foxi4 said:
Talk about conspiracy theories.
It doesn't change what you've said, no - it does change the paradigm. If you expect honesty in the world of politics,I don't think you've been paying a whole lot of attention to it until recently. My view isn't popular, and I can understand why, but if I'm sending an agent into the world of conmen and shysters, I want him to be the best crook I can find that forwards my agenda.

that's incredibly disingenuous. Reason: we are talking the president of the united states, he should be honest to the people at least regarding a pandemic and actually act and do something. which he didn't.

Foxi4 said:
In regards to "lying about COVID", I don't remember that happening. I remember him saying that he didn't want to cause a panic, both privately *and* publically, so I don't quite understand why it came as a surprise when Woodward published his book

I don't have to discuss the rest because what facts I have to mention cuts it apart, and or is more nonsense from your part.
There was a voice call with Woodward back in February 7th. Which he stated it was "it's more deadly than your strenuous flu's"
He already knew the danger, he also knew it was airborne "it goes, it goes through the air Bob"
Privately he knew and lied, and didn't bother telling anyone. Why? Because he was looking for his behind.
The rest of the people didn't know, they only had the information they could find, and looked to the president, who also lied to them. He had the knowledge, and rather than act on it for the people's sake, he decided not to.
Also the man is often fear mongering, so him claiming he didn't want to cause a panic is absolute bs.

Foxi4 · Sep 17, 2020

monkeyman4412 said:
that's incredibly disingenuous. Reason: we are talking the president of the united states, he should be honest to the people at least regarding a pandemic and actually act and do something. which he didn't.

I don't have to discuss the rest because what facts I have to mention cuts it apart.
There was a voice call with Woodward back in February 7th. Which he stated it was "it's more deadly than your strenuous flu's"
He already knew the danger, he also knew it was airborne "it goes, it goes through the air Bob"
Privately he knew and lied, and didn't bother telling anyone. Why? Because he was looking for his behind.
The rest of the people didn't know, they only had the information they could find, and looked to the president, who also lied to them.

It's not a clean cut case like you claim it is. People were already brawling over rolls of toilet paper without Trump telling them that the Black Plague is on their doorstep, I don't see how your imagined scenario would've improved the situation. Not only that, the original doomsday scenarios turned out to be gross miscalculations anyway - a quick reminder that the leaked UK estimates claimed that 80% of the population will be infected and 20% will die. I'm not sure how things are looking on your doorstep, but I don't see the dead littering the streets on mine, and the UK didn't exactly have an exemplary response to COVID either. In fact, I'm under lockdown as we speak. As for who knew and who didn't, you have no facts to back up your claim - that's just what you think. Trump didn't find out from his crystal ball, he was obviously informed about COVID's severity by third-parties, so I have zero doubt that the government as a whole knew and took calculated steps in response. Your problem is that Trump didn't tell *you*, and he adequately explained why he didn't prematurely cause a nationwide panic.

omgcat · Sep 17, 2020

Foxi4 said:
It's not a clean cut case like you claim it is. People were already brawling over rolls of toilet paper without Trump telling them that the Black Plague is on their doorstep, I don't see how your imagined scenario would've improved the situation. Not only that, the original doomsday scenarios turned out to be gross miscalculations anyway - a quick reminder that the leaked UK estimates claimed that 80% of the population will be infected and 20% will die. I'm not sure how things are looking on your doorstep, but I don't see the dead littering the streets on mine, and the UK didn't exactly have an exemplary response to COVID either. In fact, I'm under lockdown as we speak. As for who knew and who didn't, you have no facts to back up your claim - that's just what you think. Trump didn't find out from his crystal ball, he was obviously informed about COVID's severity by third-parties, so I have zero doubt that the government as a whole knew and took calculated steps in response. Your problem is that Trump didn't tell *you*, and he adequately explained why he didn't prematurely cause a nationwide panic.

He withheld information from states, that information would dictate pandemic plans. hundreds if not thousands of lives could have been saved if the administration had not withheld information, and the pandemic playbook made after 2015 came into play. instead it was thrown out because of partisan politics. The states were told to "acquire their own medical supplies" even though the federal medical stockpile was made for this scenario. we have literal tapes of the president acknowledging that the virus was deadly and easily spreadable, and stating that he "loves to downplay it".

shooting dead 200,000 people on 5th avenue.

Foxi4 · Sep 17, 2020

omgcat said:
He withheld information from states, that information would dictate pandemic plans. hundreds if not thousands of lives could have been saved if the administration had not withheld information, and the pandemic playbook made after 2015 came into play. instead it was thrown out because of partisan politics. The states were told to "acquire their own medical supplies" even though the federal medical stockpile was made for this scenario. we have literal tapes of the president acknowledging that the virus was deadly and easily spreadable, and stating that he "loves to downplay it".

shooting dead 200,000 people on 5th avenue.

Once again, you have no evidence that this is the case. All you're working with is Trump saying that he likes downplaying the virus in public so as to not cause a panic, which is perfectly reasonable.

In regards to funding, even the WHO did not declare COVID-19 to be a pandemic until mid-March, I don't see why Trump would've thought any differently in February. He knew that it was airborne, and worse than the flu - I knew that too, but watching Chinese Twitter is not exactly verified intelligence one can base policy on. Once again, an emotional response based on an out-of-context quote.

In regards to the U.S. Strategic National Stockpile, you're telling half-truths. This might come as a bit of a surprise, but it was *never* intended for immediate use in a pandemic. The states were *always* responsible for their pandemic preparation, the stockpile was there in order to provide emergency relief in the event that *local supply runs out*. This has only changed in April under Trump and the stockpile now functions as a stopgap buffer.

It's also worth mentioning that by the time COVID came along the stockpile was gutted, the Obama administration did not make any significant effort to restock it after the 2009 flu epidemic, in case you were wondering why supplies are low. The last president who actually made any pandemic preparations at the stockpile was Bush, in the wake of 9/11, in order to prepare for possible anthrax attacks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_National_Stockpile

It's also a gross exaggeration to say that "Trump killed 200k people", you're implying that if the response was different nobody would've died, which is ludicrous. I very much doubt that the number would be different by a statistically significant margin - the virus hit the most vulnerable populations the hardest, like all viruses do. The situation in care homes was inexcusable to start with, that was a death warrant signed by governors, not by Trump. Deaths in nursing homes alone account for 1/3rd of all COVID deaths - did Trump do that? I don't think so.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/09/us/coronavirus-cases-nursing-homes-us.html

The pandemic is a complicated issue that does not boil down to "orange man bad", everybody across the board dropped the ball on this one, in America *and* abroad.

[POLL] 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

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Donald Trump and Mike Pence (Republican Party)

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris (Democratic Party)

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Howie Hawkins and Angela Walker (Green Party)

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