Homebrew Nintendont and GBARunner2 connectivity to emulate GC/GBA Link Cable?

Lotoonlink · Jul 18, 2020

I've had this idea floating in my head where someone could use a modified version of Nintendont on a Wii/Wii U to play GC/GBA link cable games (such as four swords adventures) with a DS or a 3DS. The basic gist of it would be to use wii-ds-rom-sender to send a ROM of GBARunner2 patched with the GBA BIOS ROM to a DS' downloadplay (similar to how wii-ds-rom-sender can already send patched versions of GameYob and nesDS with GBC and NES ROMS injected into them), then Nintendont connects to GBARunner2 wirelessly to begin the GC/GBA link cable process.

I haven't seen any ideas like this elsewhere and I don't think it's completely unfeasible; here is a POC of GBARunner2 playing a GBA game multiplayer with the DS' wireless networking (and is available to try here) and the GBARunner2 + GBA BIOS Rom would be under the DS' 2MB of ram so I don't think there would be any issues loading it onto a DS. Nintendont and wii-ds-rom-sender are both developed by @FIX94 so perhaps they could be merged into a custom Nintendont release that allows ds-download-play functionality to start as soon as the GameCube game boots.

I think the biggest issue I see is getting Nintendont and GBARunner2 to communicate wirelessly, as GBARunner2 has made no development on this type of connectivity at the moment. So I guess this post is more of a "can this sort of thing be done" since I'm sure I don't understand all of these systems completely, and maybe the environments in which these systems work in are more sandboxed than I realize and so they just can't communicate between each other fundamentally.

Either way, I think that this concept by itself is really cool and if works out, it would make the games that use this kind of feature so much more accessible when utilizing wireless ds connectivity alongside a wii and I think so many people would be able to experience games like four swords adventures and crystal chronicles for the first time.

MikaDubbz · Jul 18, 2020

I don't know if this could ever truly happen, but I love the idea. I hope someday we may hear more from this idea.

meepdarby · Aug 3, 2020

I've been thinking about this too. I think it would be a cool idea. Especially if they can make it work with vc injects.

Alexander1970 · Aug 3, 2020

Hello.

Lotoonlink said:
I've had this idea floating in my head where someone could use a modified version of Nintendont on a Wii/Wii U to play GC/GBA link cable games (such as four swords adventures) with a DS or a 3DS. The basic gist of it would be to use wii-ds-rom-sender to send a ROM of GBARunner2 patched with the GBA BIOS ROM to a DS' downloadplay (similar to how wii-ds-rom-sender can already send patched versions of GameYob and nesDS with GBC and NES ROMS injected into them), then Nintendont connects to GBARunner2 wirelessly to begin the GC/GBA link cable process.

I haven't seen any ideas like this elsewhere and I don't think it's completely unfeasible; here is a POC of GBARunner2 playing a GBA game multiplayer with the DS' wireless networking (and is available to try here) and the GBARunner2 + GBA BIOS Rom would be under the DS' 2MB of ram so I don't think there would be any issues loading it onto a DS. Nintendont and wii-ds-rom-sender are both developed by @FIX94 so perhaps they could be merged into a custom Nintendont release that allows ds-download-play functionality to start as soon as the GameCube game boots.

I think the biggest issue I see is getting Nintendont and GBARunner2 to communicate wirelessly, as GBARunner2 has made no development on this type of connectivity at the moment. So I guess this post is more of a "can this sort of thing be done" since I'm sure I don't understand all of these systems completely, and maybe the environments in which these systems work in are more sandboxed than I realize and so they just can't communicate between each other fundamentally.

Either way, I think that this concept by itself is really cool and if works out, it would make the games that use this kind of feature so much more accessible when utilizing wireless ds connectivity alongside a wii and I think so many people would be able to experience games like four swords adventures and crystal chronicles for the first time.

https://github.com/FIX94/Nintendont

What Nintendont will never support:

Game Boy Player

Unfortunately,this also maybe means,no Afford/Intention to do anything concerning GameBoy Advance Things.

meepdarby · Aug 3, 2020

I don't think they are referring to the gameboy advance player. They are referring to the gameboy link cable.

Lotoonlink · Aug 3, 2020

alexander1970 said:
Hello.

https://github.com/FIX94/Nintendont

Unfortunately,this also maybe means,no Afford/Intention to do anything concerning GameBoy Advance Things.

Yeah, as @meepdarby said, I was referring to the GBA link cable functionality which, in the same README you quoted from, they say that the cable is supported on a Wii; my idea would be to just have it function with the Wii to ds connection protocols.

meepdarby · Aug 3, 2020

On the wii side its supported. The difficult part would be porting some kind of functionality to the 3ds. Preferably on console injects.

How do you suppose download play would help?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

So nintendont supports Bluetooth controllers.
What if the software on the 3ds emulated a Bluetooth controller that has link cable functionality? Is there any specific set of scripts or software that makes the link cable different from the regular gamecube controller? Has anyone reverse engineered the link cable?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I just found this.
https://gbatemp.net/threads/talk-on-reverse-engineering-the-gba-link-protocol.532989/

Gericom · Aug 9, 2020

Because the wifi linking still kinda unstable, I think it would first require DSi wifi support in GBARunner2 as that provides higher speeds and thus potentially lower latency. Only if linking is stable enough between (3)DS(i) devices is stable enough we could consider trying to link with nintendont.

V10lator · Aug 9, 2020

Gericom said:
Because the wifi linking still kinda unstable

LAN adapters exist and have a perfectly stable low-latency connection.

higher speeds and thus potentially lower latency.

Latency and bandwith are completely different things. You'll have a way better latency with a 10 Mbit/s LAN connection than with a 3466.8 Mbit/s 802.11 AC connection (yes I know the DS has no AC, was an example).
Also the 3DS uses 802.11b (Nintendo claiming it's G is marketing bullshit. Turn off B compatibility on your router and see what happens) while the Wii U uses 802.11g. 802.11g should in theory be able to reach lower latency than B but in practice that hardly depends on your neighbours.

Gericom · Aug 9, 2020

V10lator said:
LAN adapters exist and have a perfectly stable low-latency connection.

Latency and bandwith are completely different things. You'll have a way better latency with a 10 Mbit/s LAN connection than with a 3466.8 Mbit/s 802.11 AC connection (yes I know the DS has no AC, was an example).
Also the 3DS uses 802.11b (Nintendo claiming it's G is marketing bullshit. Turn off B compatibility on your router and see what happens) while the Wii U uses 802.11g. 802.11g should in theory be able to reach lower latency than B but in practice that hardly depends on your neighbours.

The linking doesn't use a router or whatever. It is just peer to peer. Besides is it not possible to connect a (3)DS(i) to a LAN adapter. DS wifi is up to 2Mbit/s, DSi wifi should allow up to 54Mbit/s so that should be a massive improvement. With latency I mean the time it takes to send over the bits to the other device. Higher speed with the same amount of data means lower latency. Wifi packets add a lot of overhead since I only have 16 bits to send every time.

V10lator · Aug 9, 2020

Gericom said:
The linking doesn't use a router or whatever. It is just peer to peer.

Oh, just ad-hoc wifi? Well, could still be possible to make that configurable (could even allow internet linkage between two Wii Us with LAN adapter (WiFi + internet is probably too much latency).

DS wifi is up to 2Mbit/s, DSi wifi should allow up to 54Mbit/s so that should be a massive improvement.

DS uses 802.11b which should reach 11 Mbit/s. Are you sure about the 2 Mbit/s? DSi is 802.11b, too (again: Nintendo telling it's 802.11g is marketing bullshit. Even the (new) 3DS is 802.11b) so 11 Mbit/s max. If you don't believe that no DS has anything higher than 802.11b turn of 802.11b compatibility in your router: The DS can't connect anymore. Also watch speeds on your router: They'll never be higher than 11 Mbit/s.

Gericom · Aug 9, 2020

V10lator said:
Oh, just ad-hoc wifi? Well, could still be possible to make that configurable (could even allow internet linkage between two Wii Us with LAN adapter (WiFi + internet is probably too much latency).

DS uses 802.11b which should reach 11 Mbit/s. Are you sure about the 2 Mbit/s? DSi is 802.11b, too (again: Nintendo telling it's 802.11g is marketing bullshit. Even the (new) 3DS is 802.11b) so 11 Mbit/s max. If you don't believe that no DS has anything higher than 802.11b turn of 802.11b compatibility in your router: The DS can't connect anymore. Also watch speeds on your router: They'll never be higher than 11 Mbit/s.

The DS is definitely not higher than 2Mbit/s. The hardware simply doesn't support it. I thought this thread was about nintendont <-> gbarunner2 though, so wii u <-> wii u makes no sense.

V10lator · Aug 9, 2020

Gericom said:
I thought this thread was about nintendont <-> gbarunner2 though, so wii u <-> wii u makes no sense.

Well, if we already see a PoC of DS to DS and if the exact same protocol should be used for DS to Wii U there's absolutely nothing stopping one from connecting two Wii Us. But yea, we got a slighly bit off-topic. Sry.

Gericom · Aug 9, 2020

V10lator said:
Well, if we already see a PoC of DS to DS and if the exact same protocol should be used for DS to Wii U there's absolutely nothing stopping one from connecting two Wii Us. But yea, we got a slighly bit off-topic. Sry.

Here's a video of the wifi linking branch of gbarunner2 in action:

V10lator · Aug 9, 2020

Back to topic: There's one big problem for that plan, from Nintendont:

What Nintendont will never support:

Game Boy Player

@GaryOderNichts Do you have an idea why this is?

Anyway, why even implement in into Nintendont and not some GBA emulator? We have Visual Boy Advance GX and there's VBA Link. Merging these two projects would allow the Wii U to connect to other Wii Us, Wiis and even computers. Then one could advance the protocol for ad-hoc and ask the GBARunner2 devs to use the same protocol.

Gericom · Aug 9, 2020

V10lator said:
Back to topic: There's one big problem for that plan, from Nintendont:

@GaryOderNichts Do you have an idea why this is?

Anyway, why even implement in into Nintendont and not some GBA emulator? We have Visual Boy Advance GX and there's VBA Link. Merging these two projects would allow the Wii U to connect to other Wii Us, Wiis and even computers. Then one could advance the protocol for ad-hoc and ask the GBARunner2 devs to use the same protocol.

Like I said in a reaction on a github issue, the linking with Nintendont will not be GBA game <--> GBA game, but GBA game <--> Gamecube Game. They allow for extra features with a connected gba.

V10lator · Aug 9, 2020

Yea, sorry for the trouble. Let's wait for Gary, I guess he knows Nintendont by heart.

Masana · Aug 12, 2020

Hello everyone, Knowing that the gamepad Wiiu has a screen, so I don't use it as a gameboy avance if possible ?
I think that would be the best solution and that avoids buying a second material to enjoy the gc -> gba games.

PS: message written with google translate.

MikaDubbz · Aug 12, 2020

Masana said:
Hello everyone, Knowing that the gamepad Wiiu has a screen, so I don't use it as a gameboy avance if possible ?
I think that would be the best solution and that avoids buying a second material to enjoy the gc -> gba games.

PS: message written with google translate.

That is probably far less likely to be possible, but I wouldn't oppose such implementation if it could happen either. Still only one Gamepad can connect to the Wii U as things stand (though it was supposedly going to be capable of connecting to a second game pad), so for games like 4 Swords Adventures and Crystal Chronicles, getting DS/3DS connectivity would be ideal to get the multiplayer experience operational on a Wii U.

You also have to keep in mind, Nintendont is running from the vWii side of the Wii U, it is for all intents and purposes Wii homebrew that runs on Wii U as well. And while sure, we've been able to mirror the main screen and use the Gamepad as if it's recognized as a Wii Pro controller or Gamecube controller, no Wii homebrew has been able to send a separate display to the Gamepad, and I really doubt that it even possibly can be done.

SnakeEater · Aug 15, 2020

If this worked this would be really cool.
waiting long for gba multiplayer on wii u.

Homebrew Nintendont and GBARunner2 connectivity to emulate GC/GBA Link Cable?

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