Homebrew Please RECONSIDER it good to install UNLAUNCH !!!

KleinesSinchen · Jun 28, 2020

ManuEcheveste said:
Ok, so your hardmod doesn't working is a little bit scary for me xd
I haven't done de hardmod, because I was busy with other stuff and that, but at this point I'll try my best.
Also, I got a little theory here, listen (or read xd):
Since I've a backup of my NAND, and with the tutorial I've been following, this guy (that made the tutorial) decrypted his NAND, that got me thinking... "If the hardmod doesn't works, why I don't decrypt my nand, and encrypt it in the other mother board's code"
What do you think? Do you think it can work? To use it like the last resource

Can work. TWLtool can decrypt and re-encrypt a NAND image. But NAND restoring without hardmod is considered to be dangerous as well¹. If there is any data to recover in the NAND image: This can be done safely with ninfs on a computer. No need to flash it onto another mainboard with the risk of bricking it as well.

Concerning the hardmod: I tried my best but failed. Not a bit surprising. I'm not good at micro-soldering with my shaking hands (though it is surprising that R113 simply disappeared). Since I see no damage like ripped solder pads on the mainboard I will try again once replacement resistors arrive – this will take some time (weeks) because ordering some resistors for 1.2 cents (yes, about one cent) a piece is nonsense. Once I need something else from the electronics seller, the resistors will be part of the order.

No big hopes though. Soldering DAT0 is by far the hardest part – even if I get the resistor for CLK in place.

Currently my bad test DSi shows 0000FE00 as well (not surprising since CLK is missing and it can't reach the NAND).
================

In order to find out what is happening with unlaunch (un)installer it would be really nice if somebody experienced in soldering/hardmodding would help out here.

_________________
¹ I've done NAND restore of a modified image on my test console and nothing bad happened. But this does not mean anything. Not worth the risk since everything can be done with HiyaCFW/SDNAND more easily without any risks. This NAND restore with fwtool v1.6.1 was part of testing and I was willing to loose that (bad condition) console – as can be seen now that I "successfully" bricked it on hardware level.

Alexander1970 · Jun 28, 2020

Hello.

ManuEcheveste said:
Ok, so your hardmod doesn't working is a little bit scary for me xd
I haven't done de hardmod, because I was busy with other stuff and that, but at this point I'll try my best.
Also, I got a little theory here, listen (or read xd):
Since I've a backup of my NAND, and with the tutorial I've been following, this guy (that made the tutorial) decrypted his NAND, that got me thinking... "If the hardmod doesn't works, why I don't decrypt my nand, and encrypt it in the other mother board's code"
What do you think? Do you think it can work? To use it like the last resource

I am not sure what is the Cause.I think maybe the "cheap" microSD Card Adapter.I will try another this week.
The Connection is "there" the DSi is not detected as "Drive" so I think it is a Matter of Detection.

The Thing is,the good Adapters for Example Kingston made in Taiwan or Samsung are "glued" and very hard to tear apart.The Cheap ones are falling apart from doing "nothing"..... :rofl2:

Thank you.

susi91 · Jun 28, 2020

alexander1970 said:
I am not sure what is the Cause.I think maybe the "cheap" microSD Card Adapter.I will try another this week.
The Connection is "there" the DSi is not detected as "Drive" so I think it is a Matter of Detection.

I doubt that the adapter is the cause

If you soldered the wires (on both sides) to the right points, without any short circuits in between, it should work fine. Are you able to measure continuity with a multimeter?

But you're right, it is indeed a matter of detection. As I said before, I think your wires are way to long. I had some troubles too (connecting to the eMMC on various android devices) and it doesn't work at all in case the wires are too long. Assumed everything else is ok, that is most likely your problem. Maybe cutting them down is worth a shot, if you try your next sdcard adapter... Good luck.

ManuEcheveste · Jun 28, 2020

alexander1970 said:
The Thing is,the good Adapters for Example Kingston made in Taiwan or Samsung are "glued" and very hard to tear apart.The Cheap ones are falling apart from doing "nothing"

Oh yeah, I experienced that too.
My first try to open a Micro SD card adapter was with a Kingston one, and oh god, I think that was harder than the micro soldering. (Yes, I was defeated by a tiny little SD boy), so after giving up, I tried a """Kingston""" once, and that was now the easiest part now, so I can confirm that xD

NightScript · Jul 13, 2020

Hey, whoever has a broken Unlaunch uninstall and has NAND backups, please DM me either on Discord (NightScript#5597) or GBAtemp PMs

KleinesSinchen · Jul 13, 2020

maorninja said:
Hey, whoever has a broken Unlaunch uninstall and has NAND backups, please DM me either on Discord (NightScript#5597) or GBAtemp PMs

Do you have any idea(s) what might be the cause of the bricks?
Why not share your idea(s) in the public forum so anybody can help/profit instead of hiding it inside a proprietary messaging platform and/or PMs?

After all a forum is for learning, helping each other and collecting/providing free information for the public.

KleinesSinchen · Jul 31, 2020

Good news everyone! I now have a working DSi hardmod. The poor thing actually survived the mistreatment with the soldering iron. After finally getting some 120Ω resistors the console finds its NAND once again. So does the computer. Reading the NAND was possible. Tests (including writing to NAND from PC) will follow as soon as I'm able to do it (if my very fragile setup does not fail).

Code:

root@riesen-klappi:~# dd if=/dev/sdc of=dsi3.dd bs=1M
240+0 Datensätze ein
240+0 Datensätze aus
251658240 Bytes (252 MB, 240 MiB) kopiert, 51,5254 s, 4,9 MB/s
root@riesen-klappi:~# md5sum dsi.dd dsi2.dd dsi3.dd
68216e3917c3b51bf1e80e63c128f6a0  dsi.dd
68216e3917c3b51bf1e80e63c128f6a0  dsi2.dd
68216e3917c3b51bf1e80e63c128f6a0  dsi3.dd

Sorry for German language in terminal output I guess it's clear what the output means. Took the image three times and md5sum is the same each time.

Speaking of images… how about a photo of this? I did everything wrong. My cables are far too thick (old IDE cable), far too long, not single wire, the soldering job is done very poorly. But it seems to work for now.
Slow connection warning: 3.3MB photo:

Alexander1970 · Jul 31, 2020

Hello.

KleinesSinchen said:
Good news everyone! I now have a working DSi hardmod. The poor thing actually survived the mistreatment with soldering iron. After finally getting some 120Ohm resistors the console finds its NAND once again. So does the computer. Reading the NAND was possible. Tests (including writing to NAND from PC) will follow as soon as I'm able to do it (if my very fragile setup does not fail).

Code:

root@riesen-klappi:~# dd if=/dev/sdc of=dsi3.dd bs=1M 240+0 Datensätze ein 240+0 Datensätze aus 251658240 Bytes (252 MB, 240 MiB) kopiert, 51,5254 s, 4,9 MB/s root@riesen-klappi:~# md5sum dsi.dd dsi2.dd dsi3.dd 68216e3917c3b51bf1e80e63c128f6a0 dsi.dd 68216e3917c3b51bf1e80e63c128f6a0 dsi2.dd 68216e3917c3b51bf1e80e63c128f6a0 dsi3.dd

Sorry for German language in terminal output

I guess it's clear. Took the image three times and md5sum is the same each time.

Speaking of images… how about a photo of this? I did everything wrong. My cables are far too thick (old IDE cable), far too long, not single wire, the soldering job is done very poorly. But it seems work for now.
Slow connection warning: 3.2MB photo:

View attachment 219593

Congratulations !!

Finally a Picture !! Thank God. :bow:

We are very grateful for this Contribution,Sinchen.
Thank you very much for your outstanding Work and Endurance.

KleinesSinchen · Jul 31, 2020

alexander1970 said:
Congratulations !!

Finally a Picture !! Thank God.

Now guess what: I can't get my console to softbrick.
Uninstalling unlaunch worked good although there is non-legit DSiWare on SysNAND. The only consequence was that the non-legit titles would not start anymore (no tickets, only fake tmd right from the 3DS).

I have a few ideas. Testing will take some time. Not today.

What I can confirm is that writing to NAND with the hardmod works. Full restore (give me unlaunch back!!) was successful and pretty fast for an old 256MB NAND with only one data line connected.

Code:

dd if=dsi1.dd of=/dev/sdc bs=1M
240+0 Datensätze ein
240+0 Datensätze aus
251658240 Bytes (252 MB, 240 MiB) kopiert, 73,8495 s, 3,4 MB/s

KleinesSinchen · Aug 2, 2020

Now bad news. Sadly I couldn't finish all my tests. The DSi is hardware broken now (won't power on) and I was not able to replicate the issue (no matter what I tried, unlaunch wouldn't softbrick my DSi on installing and uninstalling). My idea of simply reencrypting an image from an affected DSi is also not viable (seems console unique keys/files are used inside the image – somebody correct me if they have information on this).

Since negative results are also results I think sharing them is nevertheless a good idea (though it goes a bit off-topic here but I tried to collect various pieces of information if they are remotely related to the topic):

Non-legit DSiWare does not automatically lead to bricking on unlaunch uninstall
Multiple times installing/uninstalling unlaunch does not automatically lead to bricking
Having used "Format System Memory" has no impact as well.
I can't confirm the NAND on DSi's is of poor quality. Okay, I did not have the possibility to do an endurance test but:
- Some full write cycles did not harm the NAND. This is significantly more stress than in normal operation since the computer could write pretty fast to NAND and much data compared to simply using the DSi.
- No data corruption (each time writing to NAND was successful and md5sum verification image/NAND confirmed this)
- No errors whatsoever

This brings me to this quote some of you might know:

Please note: fwTool currently has no NAND restore options […] please don’t use any of the forks that add dubious NAND writing options. They can and will brick your console.

↑↑
This (and the bad NAND quality) seems to be more or less consensus. I have not enough experience/data/information to say poor NAND quality is true/false – only the indications above. What about the "forks adding dubios NAND writing options" ?

Can they brick a DSi?

Absolutely. Fully true. Even when doing some basic checks the image might be bad. Interrupting the process might brick. Bad SD. There are enough possibilities to make a DSi brick when restoring a backup image in software. And what is missing is something that "survives" in order to try again. Think of B9S and safe NAND restore. Or BootMii installed in boot2 on the Wii. The NAND restore doesn't overwrite the BootMii sectors.

Will they (inevitable) brick a DSi?

No. This is simply wrong and a dubious statement. I have used the restore function (so have other people) to add DSiWare to SysNAND and it worked. Not only a short period of time (If somebody was to say: It degrades NAND and will lead to earlier failure). The DSi simply continued to work for many months and only failed now because I'm not good at hardmodding.

I seriously hope to not get any "hate" for my opinion. I do not want to say: "NAND restore on DSi is fine." because it is NOT! It is very dangerous and makes no sense for the end user whatsoever. Everything that could be done on SysNAND (and more) can be done on HiyaCFW/SDNAND as well as TWilight Menu++. My opinion on this is: "Do not use software NAND restore on DSi." But claiming that software NAND restore is impossible… that is simply wrong. If somebody wants to experiment and accepts the (high) risk they can do this.
=============

The main questions of this thread is still open:

What happens when DSi's brick on unlaunch uninstall/update/install?
Would an image (hardmod) of a bricked DSi work in no$gba?
Is there anything wrong with the file system on affected consoles? (unlaunch detects FAT mismatch and does not proceed)

Somebody with better soldering/hardware skills than myself should try… but I have the feeling that there is virtually no interest in this.

Sinchen is done here. Can't do anything else.

Alexander1970 · Aug 2, 2020

Hello Sinchen.

KleinesSinchen said:
Now bad news. Sadly I couldn't finish all my tests. The DSi is hardware broken now (won't power on) and I was not able to replicate the issue (no matter what I tried, unlaunch wouldn't softbrick my DSi on installing and uninstalling). My idea of simply reencrypting an image from an affected DSi is also not viable (seems console unique keys/files are used inside the image – somebody correct me if they have information on this).

Since negative results are also results I think sharing them is nevertheless a good idea (though it goes a bit off-topic here but I tried to collect various pieces of information if they are remotely related to the topic):

Non-legit DSiWare does not automatically lead to bricking on unlaunch uninstall

Multiple times installing/uninstalling unlaunch does not automatically lead to bricking

Having used "Format System Memory" has no impact as well.

I can't confirm the NAND on DSi's is of poor quality. Okay, I did not have the possibility to do an endurance test but:

Some full write cycles did not harm the NAND. This is significantly more stress than in normal operation since the computer could write pretty fast to NAND and much data compared to simply using the DSi.

No data corruption (each time writing to NAND was successful and md5sum verification image/NAND confirmed this)

No errors whatsoever

This brings me to this quote some of you might know:

↑↑
This (and the bad NAND quality) seems to be more or less consensus. I have not enough experience/data/information to say poor NAND quality is true/false – only the indications above. What about the "forks adding dubios NAND writing options" ?

Can they brick a DSi?

Absolutely. Fully true. Even when doing some basic checks the image might be bad. Interrupting the process might brick. Bad SD. There are enough possibilities to make a DSi brick when restoring a backup image in software. And what is missing is something that "survives" in order to try again. Think of B9S and safe NAND restore. Or BootMii installed in boot2 on the Wii. The NAND restore doesn't overwrite the BootMii sectors.
Will they (inevitable) brick a DSi?

No. This is simply wrong and a dubious statement. I have used the restore function (so have other people) to add DSiWare to SysNAND and it worked. Not only a short period of time (If somebody was to say: It degrades NAND and will lead to earlier failure). The DSi simply continued to work for many months and only failed now because I'm not good at hardmodding.

I seriously hope to not get any "hate" for my opinion. I do not want to say: "NAND restore on DSi is fine." because it is NOT! It is very dangerous and makes no sense for the end user whatsoever. Everything that could be done on SysNAND (and more) can be done on HiyaCFW/SDNAND as well as TWilight Menu++. My opinion on this is: "Do not use software NAND restore on DSi." But claiming that software NAND restore is impossible… that is simply wrong. If somebody wants to experiment and accepts the (high) risk they can do this.
=============

The main questions of this thread is still open:

What happens when DSi's brick on unlaunch uninstall/update/install?

Would an image (hardmod) of a bricked DSi work in no$gba?

Is there anything wrong with the file system on affected consoles? (unlaunch detects FAT mismatch and does not proceed)

Somebody with better soldering/hardware skills than myself should try… but I have the feeling that there is virtually no interest in this.

Sinchen is done here. Can't do anything else.

In one Point,I can give you absolute Right:

but I have the feeling that there is virtually no interest in this.

It is a Shame,that allegedly have so much Users done a Hardmod and successful doing a NAND Restore,but not really get Feedback and Testing and so on...
Should it be like this...

BUT

Not sharing with the GBAtemp,the Number 1 Source in Nintendo Devices in the Internet is really not good.
Asking here for any Kind of Help is very nice and great,the Community lives from this BUT also from successful (or not) Cases.

The DSi Community knows about the Unlaunch/Brick/NAND Thing and it is still a "Mysterium".

We should be very,very,very grateful to have Users like @KleinesSinchen with her outstanding Abilities and Endurance to do such Tests and Research.

1.000 of Users use(ed) Unlaunch/HiyaCFW and TWiLight.
A little more Feedback would be really very,very nice.

@KleinesSinchen

Thank you so much for your Testing,your Time,your Passion and Endurance and "sacrifying"your DSi.....
(We can put it together with my 2 DSi´s..

)
With your outstanding Work we have one Thing for sure:

Unlaunch is an outstanding Thing for the DSi and is indispensable from the DSi Scene.
For this we have to be very grateful.
BUT
To say there is absolute no Risk in Uninstalling is an absolute not correct Statement.
The Author stated this clearly !!!!

So please use this Thread here,read it and consider your Choice very well to use UNLAUNCH please.

As mentioned in many,many Cases:
You maybe get never Rid of it and never get your DSi back to Stock State.
And in the worst case/as the Author stated:

"UNINSTALLING UNLAUNCH WILL RENDER YOUR CONSOLE MOSTLY USELESS !!"

Thank you.

KleinesSinchen · Aug 2, 2020

alexander1970 said:
[…]
Thank you so much for your Testing,your Time,your Passion and Endurance and "sacrifying"your DSi.....
[…]

And thank you for the kind words. The DSi was pretty bad before starting all this and not really useful for playing games anymore. Not a big loss. I knew what would be the end result.

At least I learned something.

I got it to power on once more. WiFi board is fine, NAND is fine (no corruption, md5sum checked against known to be working image). Still double black screen. My guess: braindead (CPU failure) it crashed in the middle of the experiments and since then it's dead.
If it powers on another time I can still do the endurance test overwriting the NAND a 100 times with garbage data before flashing the good image back and see what it does.

Pk11 · Aug 4, 2020

Do you have the backup of one of the bricked consoles from before uninstalling Unlaunch? If so could you try uninstalling in no$gba?

I've had one DSi that bricked when uninstalling and when I tried uninstalling Unlaunch using no$gba on that backup it would brick 100% of the time so I believe that there was something already corrupted and the only reason it was still alive was because of Unlaunch's brick protections. That one also wouldn't save the home menu layout on reboot so something was definitely wrong, if I were to guess its because I used Unlaunch v0.9 on 1.4.5 which was known to be bad.

If your backup consistently bricks in no$gba too then maybe the cause of the bricking isn't necessarily in the uninstall itself but rather in removing Unlaunch's protection.

Edit: note about uninstalling in no$gba, iirc the uninstall will run but always brick if you don't have all bios files so make sure you have those

KleinesSinchen · Aug 4, 2020

Pk11 said:
Do you have the backup of one of the bricked consoles from before uninstalling Unlaunch? If so could you try uninstalling in no$gba?

I've had one DSi that bricked when uninstalling and when I tried uninstalling Unlaunch using no$gba on that backup it would brick 100% of the time so I believe that there was something already corrupted and the only reason it was still alive was because of Unlaunch's brick protections. That one also wouldn't save the home menu layout on reboot so something was definitely wrong, if I were to guess its because I used Unlaunch v0.9 on 1.4.5 which was known to be bad.

If your backup consistently bricks in no$gba too then maybe the cause of the bricking isn't necessarily in the uninstall itself but rather in removing Unlaunch's protection.

Edit: note about uninstalling in no$gba, iirc the uninstall will run but always brick if you don't have all bios files so make sure you have those

Thank you very much for the feedback!

It would be really nice if you could do some testing as I reached a dead end after my test console gave up the ghost:
Please uninstall unlaunch with no$gba (while having the BIOS files of course – didn't know it would even do any DSi NAND emulation without them). Then do a file system check (chkdsk, fsck.vfat) on the main partition of the bricked image. Unlaunch does some check (no action on FAT copies mismatch). It is a long shot but still worth a try. It would be interesting to see if file system check find some errors:

a) before uninstall
b) after uninstall with bricking

On my (not affected) console file system check was always clean – despite the console had quite some history of writing to SysNAND like multiple unlaunch updates, downgrades, uninstall, install, software NAND restore and hardware NAND restore. Same for the backup image in the emulator. No problems no matter what.

Pk11 · Aug 4, 2020

KleinesSinchen said:
Thank you very much for the feedback!

It would be really nice if you could do some testing as I reached a dead end after my test console gave up the ghost:
Please uninstall unlaunch with no$gba (while having the BIOS files of course – didn't know it would even do any DSi NAND emulation without them). Then do a file system check (chkdsk, fsck.vfat) on the main partition of the bricked image. Unlaunch does some check (no action on FAT copies mismatch). It is a long shot but still worth a try. It would be interesting to see if file system check find some errors:

a) before uninstall
b) after uninstall with bricking
On my (not affected) console file system check was always clean – despite the console had quite some history of writing to SysNAND like multiple unlaunch updates, downgrades, uninstall, install, software NAND restore and hardware NAND restore. Same for the backup image in the emulator. No problems no matter what.

I'll try running a file system check in Windows on it in the morning as its 1:35 for me right now

and when I tried in macOS's Disk Utility it said both before and after were all good, but for now since I ran the uninstall on it again I got a screenshot of the error:

According to DSiBrew.org that means "Invalid signature or partition type in MBR, invalid starting LBA."

Edit: It shows that error every time I reboot after uninstalling in no$gba, but on the actual console it only showed an error (probably that one) the first time, then every time after that it was just black screens

susi91 · Aug 4, 2020

Pk11 said:
According to DSiBrew.org that means "Invalid signature or partition type in MBR, invalid starting LBA."

A hex editor would come in handy, I guess^^

Pk11 · Aug 5, 2020

Alright, checked on Windows now... and same thing, chkdsk says that both images are all good... So whatever's wrong it doesn't seem to be triggering disk checks...
Unfortunately I don't think I kept any older backups of this DSi for some reason, this one is from immediately before I uninstalled on the console itself I think so I can't compare with the clean image from before Unlaunch....

KleinesSinchen · Aug 5, 2020

susi91 said:
A hex editor would come in handy, I guess^^

Starting a hex editor is not the problem. Any idea what to actually do with it? What and where to search?

Pk11 said:
Alright, checked on Windows now... and same thing, chkdsk says that both images are all good... So whatever's wrong it doesn't seem to be triggering disk checks...
Unfortunately I don't think I kept any older backups of this DSi for some reason, this one is from immediately before I uninstalled on the console itself I think so I can't compare with the clean image from before Unlaunch....

Thanks for testing! Seems my method did not come to a result this time. After all I'm not a developer and all I do is more or less systematic testing, trial-and-error and process of elimination.

Since Nintendo products are never very verbose with errors – "An error has occurred", black screen or one error number (best case) that can have multiple reasons this limits the amount of systematic work that can be easily done to pinpoint an issue.

The partitions are normal and I guess the MBR is not damaged either… what could have changed in order to make the signature invalid – or – What could "Invalid starting LBA" mean in this context? Why does the DSi not show the error while the emulator does?

More questions than answers.

I guess the only result for the time being is:

Only install unlauch if you are sure you want to keep it and accept the (apparently low risk at installation). This is no software for trying out and playing around and getting rid of two weeks later "to sell the DSi". ← Hate that argument with passion.
Do not uninstall unlaunch if you are not willing to loose your console! Until more is known. Hopefully somebody skilled with these kind of things finds out.

susi91 · Aug 5, 2020

KleinesSinchen said:
Starting a hex editor is not the problem. Any idea what to actually do with it? What and where to search?

Take a copy of your working dd image, rename it to installed.img and open it up with HxD. Then take a copy of the non booting image (the one you used in no$gba), rename it to uninstalled.img. Go back to the HxD window, select compare file, open up the uninstalled img. Now take a look at the files, jump with F6 from the first difference to the next one.

Since the error probably has something to do with a Invalid signature or partition type in MBR / invalid starting LBA, the culprit should be just at the beginning of the file (LBA0 up to ?), lets say on the first pages^^

In case you see somehow a difference, try to decrypt the raw data (there are some tutorials on how to do that, like this: http://blog.hakzone.info/posts-and-...ot-record-mbr-with-a-hex-editor-hex-workshop/ ).

Pressing F6 should just jump to the next suspicious entry and maybe (idk) you get an idea why no$gba throws the error... idk.

Edit, just forgot to say, if there are to many hits, maybe a compare from a clean (before unlaunch) backup to the uninstalled one is better (only MBR, LBA0 to 3 or so, idk).

Machiavelus · Aug 29, 2022

RocketRobz said:
^this

As soon as my Yellow DSi LL (imported from Japan, and ordered last month) arrives, and as someone with no hardmodding experience, I won't be installing Unlaunch on it, after hearing those reports.
I've already implemented fixes into nds-bootstrap so that it works fine without Unlaunch.

btw, is there anything I could do to improve dsi.cfw.guide, so that bricks are reduced?
There's already messages such as:

and

God knows this is a post which is years old but I made this account on this specific day to ask for advice, lol.

See, I'm not a risk taker, if there is a 1% chance I can brick my console I won't do it, so like you might imply, I'm only running Twilight Menu via Memory Pit. I got no problem if every time I want to play a videogame I need to make 2 more clicks and wait x more seconds. However there seems to be a little problem when I'm playing a game and I want to play another.

My biggest 2 questions to you:

1 - Is there a way when I'm playing a game where pressing the power button would get me back to the twilight menu game selector instead of going all the way back to the DSi main menu? (Strange thing is that if I press the power button while on the twilight menu game selector interface it doesn't go back to the DSi main menu, only happens when I'm playing a game and I press the power button)

2 - Am I doing something wrong? because if I use the key combination combo for nds_bootsrap the menu gives me an option to quit the game, if I select that option it totally exits Twilight Menu so I have to do the photo thing all over again

For everything else Thank you very much for Twilight, I'm using it as well on my new 2DS XL and has given me a way to play games I just can't afford today due to ridiculous prices.

Almost forgot I'm using 25.2.1 with nds_bootsrap 0.63.2

Homebrew Please RECONSIDER it good to install UNLAUNCH !!!

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