Sakurai says work on Smash Ultimate will be finished after latest DLC, no future Smash games planned

jt_1258 · Feb 20, 2020

MikaDubbz said:
I dunno, if there is a gap of like 5 years between the end of this cycle, and then starting up the cycle after the next system launches, I don't think there'd be that much of an issue. Sure there would be some that are mad, but at the end of the day, there'd be less people upset about that than there would be people mad that they'd have to buy a deluxe version of Ultimate again for the new system which would then still get it's own new content regardless.

Now that I think about it, does any game exist that has dlc like that? I don't think anything like that has happened before where the game worked on multiple platforms but not the dlc.

banjo2 · Feb 20, 2020

jt_1258 said:
Now that I think about it, does any game exist that has dlc like that? I don't think anything like that has happened before where the game worked on multiple platforms but not the dlc.

LEGO Batman 2's DLC wasn't available on the Wii version despite having the theoretical capability, and the character icons existing within the files, if that counts.

jt_1258 · Feb 20, 2020

banjo2 said:
LEGO Batman 2's DLC wasn't available on the Wii version despite having the theoretical capability, and the character icons existing within the files, if that counts.

what, where you only able to use it if you popped the disc into the wii u?

banjo2 · Feb 20, 2020

jt_1258 said:
what, where you only able to use it if you popped the disc into the wii u?

Never tried it, but I doubt it

jt_1258 · Feb 20, 2020

banjo2 said:
Never tried it, but I doubt it

I was talking about a situation where you put a game in the original system it was made for and you can play it there and get what you can but putting said game into the consoles successor allows using dlc that can't be accessed on the original system if that clears things up.

Example:
smash ultimate put into an original switch you can buy and use fighter packs 1 and 2
same cartridge put into the Nintendo Switch 2 and you can use packs 1 and 2 and also buy and use packs 3 and 4 but said packs 3 and 4 aren't accessible when playing that same version of the game in the original system.

MikaDubbz · Feb 20, 2020

jt_1258 said:
Now that I think about it, does any game exist that has dlc like that? I don't think anything like that has happened before where the game worked on multiple platforms but not the dlc.

Perhaps not, but times are changing and so are the way these systems work. As an example, for at least a few years PS5 and XSX releases are going to be playable on PS4 Pro and Xbone X before we get to the point where straight out exclusives are released unplayable on the Pro and X. That hasn't really happened yet either (unless maybe we count the handful of releases exclusive only to the New 3DS).

pedro702 · Feb 20, 2020

jt_1258 said:
I was talking about a situation where you put a game in the original system it was made for and you can play it there and get what you can but putting said game into the consoles successor allows using dlc that can't be accessed on the original system if that clears things up.

Example:
smash ultimate put into an original switch you can buy and use fighter packs 1 and 2
same cartridge put into the Nintendo Switch 2 and you can use packs 1 and 2 and also buy and use packs 3 and 4 but said packs 3 and 4 aren't accessible when playing that same version of the game in the original system.

well i dont think any game had that not with paid dlc, there was extra features like some gbc games when inserted into the gba had more stuff in them, but that is everything i heard about next gen addons for previous gen games that arent just graphic improvements.

jt_1258 · Feb 20, 2020

MikaDubbz said:
Perhaps not, but times are changing and so are the way these systems work. As an example, for at least a few years PS5 and XSX releases are going to be playable on PS4 Pro and Xbone X before we get to the point where straight out exclusives are released unplayable on the Pro and X. That hasn't really happened yet either (unless maybe we count the handful of releases exclusive only to the New 3DS).

The switch 2 being backwards compatible and being able to run the original smash ultimate and ultimate getting some sort of deluxe version exclusive to the switch 2 that comes with all the original dlc and would be what gets the new dlc after that would be the less messy option. the playstation store on ps3 is confusing as is with stuff that came out for both vita and ps3 being mixed together with the same names much less how the eshop would have both switch 1 and switch 2 content in it. then again we are talking about nintendo who made the wii u...the thing that literally everyone thought was just an accessory for the original wii

MikaDubbz · Feb 20, 2020

jt_1258 said:
The switch 2 being backwards compatible and being able to run the original smash ultimate and ultimate getting some sort of deluxe version exclusive to the switch 2 that comes with all the original dlc and would be what gets the new dlc after that would be the less messy option. the playstation store on ps3 is confusing as is with stuff that came out for both vita and ps3 being mixed together with the same names much less how the eshop would have both switch 1 and switch 2 content in it. then again we are talking about nintendo who made the wii u...the thing that literally everyone thought was just an accessory for the original wii

I'm gonna disagree on that. No one likes having to buy the same game again when the next hardware comes out, especially if the next hardware is capable of playing the previous gens games. Like no Mario Kart 8 owner was happy to then have to pay again to buy 8 Deluxe on the Switch (I sure as hell didn't like it, but I bought it anyway), but at least in that case it was understandable, the games were different formats and the Switch isn't backwards compatible with Wii U software.

Now if the Swtich 2 can play Switch 1 games, and then they go to release a Smash Deluxe specifically for the Switch 2 would be a huge slap in the face, that I assure you would receive far more backlash than this other scenario here.

Having said that, what I can see happen is that owners of Ultimate will be able to use their game and get exclusive content that the Switch 2 has to offer, while those that never bought Ultimate or the original Switch, will be able to buy a Smash Deluxe for the Switch 2 which is the same game but includes all the DLC up to that point, with both situations working out exactly the same as they move forward.

RandomUser · Feb 21, 2020

I thought I read somewhere that the Wii U will be the last Smash Bros game as Sakurai was retiring. Perhaps I read or remembered wrong and even if he does actually retire, doesn't actually mean permanent retirement but it is a possibility. Even if Sakurai does permanent retire, I highly doubt the SSBU will be the last iteration. Also what is surprising is why the Switch never even got a proper iteration of Mario Kart?

UltraDolphinRevolution · Feb 21, 2020

AkiraKurusu said:
They could also bring back dropped stages and modes; I, for one, mourn Poke Floats, Pyrosphere, Woolly World, and the traditional Classic Mode and All-Star Mode.

The Woolly World stage is also missing? Then there might be no vertically auto-scrolling stage at all. That´s a shame. The original Ice Climber stage is missing, DK vertical stage as well.

MikaDubbz said:
Like no Mario Kart 8 owner was happy to then have to pay again to buy 8 Deluxe on the Switch

Indeed. And seeing how the Switch is not much more powerful than the Wii U, I wish they had just made the Switch a Wii U 2 which is completely portable for those who need it. Then the software line could have continued.

Vorde · Feb 21, 2020

UltraDolphinRevolution said:
The content is obviously "Ultimate" but in some sense it is a step back compared to Smash Wii U.
Some online features were actually made worse, there is more input lag (why?!), effects are too exaggerated (the developers made them more exaggerated with every entry) and look worse compared to Wii U (e.g. fire effects) and the increased speed of hit characters flying away also makes it more difficult to hit them a 2nd, 3rd (etc) time.

I feel like some of the visual decisions made towards the game was to keep it performing at 60fps even with all 8 characters using the skills etc. The Switch isn't powerful so some sacrifies obviously were made.

HEADBOY · Feb 22, 2020

Silent_Gunner said:
There's also the fact that, to be honest, I barely play Smash anymore. Maybe it's because I don't have any IRL friends to play it with, but while I understand one can turn it into a competitive game, I still think it doesn't hold a candle to stuff like Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus R in terms of the amount of fun I've got from your traditional tournament fighter.

Man I haven't played Guilty Gear XX in a while, does anyone still play the fanmade Steam server? It's been a while since I played any traditional tournament fighter since I suck at them unfortunately.

Silent_Gunner · Feb 22, 2020

awesomehero said:
Man I haven't played Guilty Gear XX in a while, does anyone still play the fanmade Steam server? It's been a while since I played any traditional tournament fighter since I suck at them unfortunately.

I think the GGPO implementation hit a snag recently. It still has people working on it, but at this point, the best one can hope for is that Guilty Gear Strive doesn't end up becoming simply another fighting game and maintains its identity, and that they'll get to implementing GGPO. It's still not exactly clear whether they're going to atm.

Jiansetic · Feb 27, 2020

This guy always says the same thing, no doubts there will be more Smash Bros games

deinonychus71 · Feb 27, 2020

Why would anyone even WANT a new game anyway?
Unless said new game brings game breaking mechanics, there is no point reinventing the wheel. Fighting games work perfectly fine as a service.
Just port the existing game (or most likely switch 2 will be retrocompatible) and keep improving it. It's not like Ultimate is truly "Ultimate" in every way. and cannot be improved.

I really wish lootboxes had not made people unable to see how game as a service can be done right and when it makes sense.

the_randomizer · Feb 27, 2020

Good, I can't wait for there to be no more FE waifu characters

MikaDubbz · Feb 27, 2020

Jiansetic said:
This guy always says the same thing, no doubts there will be more Smash Bros games

There will almost certainly be more Smash games or content in the future. But I'm not so sure Sakurai will continue to be a part of it. I could see him retiring from the role entirely or taking a more hands off, overseeing position after Ultimate is completely done.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

deinonychus71 said:
Why would anyone even WANT a new game anyway?
Unless said new game brings game breaking mechanics, there is no point reinventing the wheel. Fighting games work perfectly fine as a service.
Just port the existing game (or most likely switch 2 will be retrocompatible) and keep improving it. It's not like Ultimate is truly "Ultimate" in every way. and cannot be improved.

I really wish lootboxes had not made people unable to see how game as a service can be done right and when it makes sense.

This is what I've been saying. Sakurai said that if there is another Smash game there would be no way that all the characters came back. The game looks beautiful enough as it is, so why not just give Ultimate more life in the future? Assuming the likely Switch 2 is backwards compatible, allow Ultimate and it's DLC to carry over to the new system, and make use of the extra power for better framerate or resolution or whatever, and then push expansions and DLC exclusive to the new system. And for new owners of that system that never got the original game, release a Deluxe version of Ultimate with all the DLC released thus far, and then release those same expansions and DLC.

I know that situation is a bit unconventional, but gaming is changing, we'll likely see scenarios like that play out with Sony and Microsoft with new games released for this gen's hardware but able to take advantage of the next gen's hardware as well with exclusive content only obtainable if played on the next gen systems.

deinonychus71 · Feb 27, 2020

MikaDubbz said:
I'm gonna disagree on that. No one likes having to buy the same game again when the next hardware comes out, especially if the next hardware is capable of playing the previous gens games. Like no Mario Kart 8 owner was happy to then have to pay again to buy 8 Deluxe on the Switch (I sure as hell didn't like it, but I bought it anyway), but at least in that case it was understandable, the games were different formats and the Switch isn't backwards compatible with Wii U software.

Now if the Swtich 2 can play Switch 1 games, and then they go to release a Smash Deluxe specifically for the Switch 2 would be a huge slap in the face, that I assure you would receive far more backlash than this other scenario here.

Having said that, what I can see happen is that owners of Ultimate will be able to use their game and get exclusive content that the Switch 2 has to offer, while those that never bought Ultimate or the original Switch, will be able to buy a Smash Deluxe for the Switch 2 which is the same game but includes all the DLC up to that point, with both situations working out exactly the same as they move forward.

That's not how software works though, At some point the older hardware is no longer supported and new stuff only comes in new hardware.
And honestly that's quite alright, there is no commitment to provide endless update for a game running on a older hardware. It's not like you're being lied to when you first buy the game.
And games just like everything else lose value over time.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

MikaDubbz said:
This is what I've been saying. Sakurai said that if there is another Smash game there would be no way that all the characters came back. The game looks beautiful enough as it is, so why not just give Ultimate more life in the future? Assuming the likely Switch 2 is backwards compatible, allow Ultimate and it's DLC to carry over to the new system, and make use of the extra power for better framerate or resolution or whatever, and then push expansions and DLC exclusive to the new system. And for new owners of that system that never got the original game, release a Deluxe version of Ultimate with all the DLC released thus far, and then release those same expansions and DLC.

I know that situation is a bit unconventional, but gaming is changing, we'll likely see scenarios like that play out with Sony and Microsoft with new games released for this gen's hardware but able to take advantage of the next gen's hardware as well with exclusive content only obtainable if played on the next gen systems.

It's not really all that unconventional these days. That's how most (very) successful GaaS work. They no longer bring sequel because there is no need to. Instead they keep on improving the game.
Which honestly, is a win-win when done right. But players in general are almost allergic to the concept of GaaS after years and years of GaaS done wrong (lootboxes and such).

Even though you know, Fortnite, Dota, LoL, they all make insane amount of monies

I'm sure that without this bad press surrounding game with extended continuous support Smash could potentially get a lot more than it does. Part of the reason why I think Nintendo may sadly stop there is they don't want to start hearing about people telling them "Booo this was cut from the full game / Boo this should be for free / Boo this ends up costing $200+"
Which of course is fallacious. You know what you buy when you buy it.

MikaDubbz · Feb 27, 2020

deinonychus71 said:
It's not really all that unconventional these days. That's how most (very) successful GaaS work. They no longer bring sequel because there is no need to. Instead they keep on improving the game.
Which honestly, is a win-win when done right. But players in general are almost allergic to the concept of GaaS after years and years of GaaS done wrong (lootboxes and such).

Even though you know, Fortnite, Dota, LoL, they all make insane amount of monies

I'm sure that without this bad press surrounding game with extended continuous support Smash could potentially get a lot more than it does. Part of the reason why I think Nintendo may sadly stop there is they don't want to start hearing about people telling them "Booo this was cut from the full game / Boo this should be for free / Boo this ends up costing $200+"
Which of course is fallacious. You know what you buy when you buy it.

I can't really think of any examples of it on modern game consoles. But that's because none of the modern game consoles this gen were backwards compatible with the gen before it out of the box. You couldn't play a PS3 game on a PS4 and continue to get new content for that copy of the game, instead PS3 games were remastered for the PS4. Likewise, the Xbone eventually got 360 compatibility, but I think it was too late at that point for any of those 360 games to continue to get new support only for the Xbone. And of course the Wii U games were on a completely different format than the Switch, so that was never gonna happen there either. We'll see for sure in time, but I do expect to see this kind of thing happen in the next gen on game consoles.

The perfect example of a game that this should have happened to, if it could have would be GTA V. We all know that this gen's versions of the games got more content than the original versions, but you couldn't carry over your previous gen's version of the game to get that content and instead had to buy a new version for the current gen. Hoping we can see the next gen allow for such a scenario where you don't have to buy the same game again if you already own it and then still get the new content for the new hardware.

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