Atlus to revise two "homophobic" scenes for Persona 5 Royal's western release

Deleted User · Feb 20, 2020

fafaldo said:
I think most of you guys are looking at this change from the wrong angle.

Being a gay guy myself I can tell you what if wrong in here: showing gay people like this. I know that everyone knows not every gay looks and behaves like this but somehow, magically, almost every character that appears in movies or video games is portrayed like this. And believe me - most people get and remember exactly that image afterwards and it's extremely difficult to convince them otherwise. I guess it's worth adding that for exactly the same reason I am a big opposer of pride parades - the same thing. And believe me, most of gay people I know are actually against them as well.

So I think the word 'offensive' or 'offended' that was used in the article and is quoted by you guys is a bit too strong - it's all just about not showing this stereotypical image as it really could be harmful.

Cheers

I'm a heterosexual Christian guy (I don't really visit Church that often but that's not too relevant) and I don't mind the jokes that people make about my gender or religion, but God forbid it's about a different gender/religion and everything explodes with homophobic this, homophobic that, transphobic this, transphobic that, etc. Point is, you don't really see "Heterophobic" or "Chiristiaphobic" on the news as those are fine to make fun of, but anything else isn't.

Double standards.

Deleted User · Feb 20, 2020

I just don't get why people are offended by the change. Is there a group of sexual harassers who are feeling excluded and underrepresented in video games?

Did the game director wake up one morning thinking "I'm gonna make a new Persona sequel, and a 5 second sexual harassment joke is going to be central to this vision!"? Is that what this creative vision stuff is about?

Well, I guess Star Wars is ruined because they deleted unnecessary parts of George Lucas's vision to try and make the movies more palatable.

DeeLaw · Feb 20, 2020

Boesy said:
Point is, you don't really see "Heterophobic" or "Chiristiaphobic" on the news as those are fine to make fun of, but anything else isn't.

Double standards.

There's quite a bit more to the issue than that. The reason why it matters so much to minority groups and there's not such a rush to defend the "heterosexual Christian guys" is because there was not any large scale persecution against the majority groups anyone who fits that description is a part of. Sometimes different standards are necessary for different situations. It doesn't matter if someone represents a straight white dude as a stereotypical asshole because you've seen a thousand of them with different personalities this month in the media.
Yet despite a good number of gay people of different personalities existing, this 100+ hour game with innumerable throwaway characters has the only outwardly gay characters' sole trait as sexual harassment. That's the one of, if not the, only of these portrayals the game, and because this portrayal is so common in media it sticks in people's minds, especially for those who may not meet many gay people. It's just a bad look.
Not only that but these images of someone as different and strange really affect people's perception a lot more than it would if some one character happens to be gay, because you've made it a defining aspect of their personality. When you misrepresent a group of people that do not generally have the power to make changes it is more damaging, and it's at least worth discussing what matters to Western culture.

Deleted User · Feb 20, 2020

Snugglevixen said:
I just don't get why people are offended by the change. Is there a group of sexual harassers who are feeling excluded and underrepresented in video games?

Did the game director wake up one morning thinking "I'm gonna make a new Persona sequel, and a 5 second sexual harassment joke is going to be central to this vision!"? Is that what this creative vision stuff is about?

Well, I guess Star Wars is ruined because they deleted unnecessary parts of George Lucas's vision to try and make the movies more palatable.

Changing something that is already done shouldn't be modified, instead use a warning screen that it was produced in earlier days so folks back then had a different mindset.

14dadff8a5f07424ed952210dafdeea3b702a99125c102353af9756a0dd2817c.jpg

In fact, it was because of censorship that Tom and Jerry: Golden Collection Vol. 2 on Blu-ray was cancelled due to the huge backlash. Even to this day, fans are still hoping it comes out.

Here's a dedicated thread about it: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=205586

Skelletonike · Feb 20, 2020

Well, this is silly.
It was a short scene that gave me a few chuckles.

I wonder how people would react to Hard Gay nowadays. That was an awesome character.

Deleted User · Feb 20, 2020

Boesy said:
Changing something that is already done shouldn't be modified

Then boycott the game for existing, because it's a modified version of Persona 5.
And boycott any game which receives updates.

FGFlann · Feb 20, 2020

fafaldo said:
I think most of you guys are looking at this change from the wrong angle.

Being a gay guy myself I can tell you what if wrong in here: showing gay people like this. I know that everyone knows not every gay looks and behaves like this but somehow, magically, almost every character that appears in movies or video games is portrayed like this. And believe me - most people get and remember exactly that image afterwards and it's extremely difficult to convince them otherwise. I guess it's worth adding that for exactly the same reason I am a big opposer of pride parades - the same thing. And believe me, most of gay people I know are actually against them as well.

So I think the word 'offensive' or 'offended' that was used in the article and is quoted by you guys is a bit too strong - it's all just about not showing this stereotypical image as it really could be harmful.

Cheers

As far as media representation goes, the needle has moved significantly toward the positive on gay and lesbian representation in recent years, especially in televised media. Granted, a lot of it is present in badly written, DC soap operas on CW, but positive portrayals are a growing trend across the first world nonetheless.

I respect you voicing your opinion on the state of pride parades and how garish they are. It's an unpopular opinion and can earn a person quite a bit of ire. Not much else to say on the matter other than I agree.

The matter of this change itself; Another in a long line. This one is so insignificant it's difficult to get excited about. Flamboyance is a real thing. Hiding it in a video game isn't going to stop it being amusing. Not playing the game over its removal would be extreme, too. But everyone has a principled stance, I'm sure.

Foxi4 · Feb 20, 2020

Looking at some of the responses here I have to wonder why the JRPG community is first in line to "Reeee" when Western publishers censor pre-pubescent characters wearing string bikinis, but forms a strong anti-sexual harassment coalition when they see a pretty basic gay panic joke. If I may suggest something, take a chill pill - it's a joke, it's not a big deal. Your priorities are all over the place.

Besides, the scenes are tame - like I said earlier, I know people like this in real life. Some flamboyant gay guys *do* hit on straight men in this way - it happened to me, it was extremely awkward and explaining that I'm there with my fiancée and not into men led to some further shenanigans. If you think that's over the top, God forbid you ever interact with a drag queen - they can be pretty extreme.

I think the wave of oversensitive nonsense over scenes like these is just insecurity - you don't want gays to be misrepresented so much that you choose the path of least resistance when in reality those scenarios are totally plausible. What, you don't want flamboyant gays to be represented in video games? How un-woke - I'm disappointed.

Here's a suggestion - go out more. Go clubbing. You'll quickly notice that people are pretty diverse. Things are only as "offensive" as you choose them to be. They're not bashing gays, they're not saying that gays are inferior, they're depicting a specific kind of a gay person which, spoilers, does exist.

FGFlann · Feb 20, 2020

I will fight to the death for lolis in string bikinis.

Foxi4 · Feb 20, 2020

FGFlann said:
I will fight to the death for lolis in string bikinis.

That's fair, but you have to admit there's some cognitive dissonance here.

FGFlann · Feb 20, 2020

Foxi4 said:
That's fair, but you have to admit there's some cognitive dissonance here.

Not necessarily. We mustn't collectivize a diverse group of people after all. Wouldn't that be bad?

Foxi4 · Feb 20, 2020

FGFlann said:
Not necessarily. We mustn't collectivize a diverse group of people after all. Wouldn't that be bad?

I think sexualised depictions of children are, by and large, "bad".

I fully understand that people are "diverse" and if that's how you rustle your jimmies then that's fine since it's a 3D model and none of it is real, but it's most definitely in bad taste.

Deleted User · Feb 20, 2020

Foxi4 said:
I think sexualised depictions of children are, by and large, "bad". I fully understand that people are "diverse" and if that's how you rustle your jimmies then that's fine since it's a 3D model and none of it is real, but it's most definitely in bad taste.

Isn't the age of consent 13 in Japan? Whether we agree or not, that's what's normal for Japan and they shouldn't have to change because some foreigners feel offended.

FGFlann · Feb 20, 2020

The point was about cognitive dissonance. The joke somehow turned into an uncomfortable accusation. Who do I complain to about this?

@Boesy
This is a myth of sorts that keeps getting perpetuated. The national age of consent in Japan is antiquated and overruled by age of consent laws set by each prefecture. None of which are below 16.

Foxi4 · Feb 20, 2020

Boesy said:
Isn't the age of consent 13 in Japan? Whether we agree or not, that's what's normal for Japan and they shouldn't have to change because some foreigners feel offended.

I get where you're coming from, but when people pull the age of consent argument, I can't help but feel that their neck is itchy while they type it out. You know it ain't right when you see it - doth protest too much. You're also missing the point - I am also against censorship, I'm merely calling a spade a spade. If you're going to be offended by one and not the other, the game isn't the problem - you're the problem.

FGFlann said:
The point was about cognitive dissonance. The joke somehow turned into an uncomfortable accusation. Who do I complain to about this?

@Boesy
This is a myth of sorts that keeps getting perpetuated. The national age of consent in Japan is antiquated and overruled by age of consent laws set by each prefecture. None of which are below 16.

Not an accusation, rather a generalised observation - I was talking about the community at large, not you specifically. I don't like my games censored either, I simply said that JRPG's have way worse content in them on the reg that people wholeheartedly defend all day long.

horokeusama · Feb 20, 2020

Those weren't homophobic lines. The characters themselves are comic reliefs.

I hate this general SJW argument that you can't depict gay people in a funny way because that's supposedly offensive.

This isn't real life, you aren't offending homossexuals because you see a comic scene in a videogame.

I can't stand this shit anymore. I'll just vote with my wallet and pirate whenever possible.

FGFlann · Feb 20, 2020

Foxi4 said:
Not an accusation, rather a generalised observation - I was talking about the community at large, not you specifically. I don't like my games censored either, I simply said that JRPG's have way worse content in them on the reg that people wholeheartedly defend all day long.

What I was getting at is that the people doing one are not necessarily the same ones doing the other. Thus cognitive dissonance isn't the best descriptor. Rather we could consider there being two camps in the JRPG community, the degenerates and the prudes.

Now everyone needs to pick a side.

Foxi4 · Feb 20, 2020

FGFlann said:
What I was getting at is that the people doing one are not necessarily the same ones doing the other. Thus cognitive dissonance isn't the best descriptor. Rather we could consider there being two camps in the JRPG community, the degenerates and the prudes.

Now everyone needs to pick a side.

That's offensive to me, degeneracy is a spectrum! That's a neanderthal way to describe things, you should be ashamed! *wink wink*

FGFlann · Feb 20, 2020

I'll put you down as degenerate adjacent.

Foxi4 · Feb 20, 2020

FGFlann said:
I'll put you down as degenerate adjacent.

Nobody can put me down in general once they try me, I have an addictive personality. We can be adjacent together, insert gay panic joke here.

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