Atlus to revise two "homophobic" scenes for Persona 5 Royal's western release

AkiraKurusu · Feb 20, 2020

IncredulousP said:
You're right, all of the original Star Wars trilogy edits were totally warranted and didn't detract from the original theatrical presentation...

...I actually like how Anakin's ghost was changed in Return of the Jedi; that's how he appeared back before he was lied to and manipulated by Palpatine, back when he was a Jedi. It makes sense to use Christensen's appearance instead of the previous old guy.
Also, the appearance of many other planets (e.g. Naboo, Coruscant) celebrating when the second Death Star's blown up and the Empire's destroyed truly makes it feel like the entire galaxy was happy and free, instead of just a small bunch of rebels on a forest planet.
Oh, and the changes to the Cloud City. Makes it feel less cramped and constantly-indoors, what with how they added windows and the like everywhere. Like it's an actual "Cloud" City.

So some edits are justified. Some.

JayMathis · Feb 20, 2020

I want to be excited for this, but I beat Persona 5 and have no desire to play through the entire game again from the beginning just to get to 15-20% new stuff. Did they say you have to start from the beginning?

Nekomaru · Feb 20, 2020

My problem with those scenes is that the game tries to sell harassment attempts as gags and those are mostly based on the "flamboyant gayness" of those NPCs. The choice of Joker to leave Ryuji with the men is cruel - I haven't played the game until that point but if it's well designed, it should show some consequences like Ryuji skipping a dungeon or changing his attitude to Joker. The reactions of the main chars are also strange - why don't they oppose more strongly, threaten to call the police or ask for help? I know these are very abstract situations but I'm curious how would a typical Japanese react.

Depending on what exactly the localization changes, it might get better or worse - I am against the censorship in TMS#FE for instance. Also strongly against harassing translators/localization teams what happened recently to DDSTranslations for translating "newhalf" accurately in Goemon 3.

I know the usual conventions for portraying gay/queer/flamboyant characters in Anime and games - it's a bit sad we get almost no characters where gayness/queerness is just a part of the characterization and not just a device for gags or a lazy cliche.

Deleted User · Feb 20, 2020

IncredulousP said:
Edit: who changes it is irrelevant. Content was removed (censored) to block established art from having any perceived "undesirable" influence on the audience.

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Also it's important to point out: the game wasn't changed because of people complaining, people are going to complain about anything. It changed because the Company calculated that the best PR, and thus most sales, would be achieved by settling for the lowest common denominator--something that doesn't offend any particular group lest missing out on potential sales. It's always easy to pinpoint the blame on consumers themselves but the companies are at as much fault as them, if not much more, for choosing to react accordingly. Remember, the original was met with mixed reception, not critically panned. To maximize profit, appeal to all audiences, including the overly offended.

I can't believe Atlus is removing the best part of the game! I preordered this game expecting high octane sexual harassment action, but they've removed it! How dare they listen to SJWs asking for the most creative and interesting parts of the game removed! The game is ruined!

Xzi · Feb 20, 2020

dude1 said:
there is a reason, your Anti-SJW types have ongoing lists of "get woke, go broke" because while not a 100% rule of law, more often than not pandering in these ways is less profitable not more.

There's zero evidence to support this, and in fact I can probably find more evidence to the contrary. Nike and Disney are just two examples of companies which faced boycotts from hateful groups and then saw a marked increase in profits anyway.

Nine times out of ten, the right choice for a business is to avoid being exclusionary. Otherwise we'd still have "no Irish allowed" posted in store windows in order to attract bigots. It's an extremely niche group of people who are hateful enough to buy a product just because it offended the "right" people. Or boycott that same product because it was revised to no longer be offensive.

dude1 said:
it is not a bug/error like you seem to want to conflate it to.

I meant "error" in the general sense rather than in terms of coding. Could be as simple as an oversight, or a change that should've been made out of respect for cultural differences, as is the case here.

IncredulousP said:
You're right, all of the original Star Wars trilogy edits were totally warranted and didn't detract from the original theatrical presentation...

A fine example of the creator trashing their own creation. Unfortunately that is their right, but the good news is that the originals still exist in abundance, as is also the case with the "uncensored" version of Persona 5. Additionally, the majority of games are improved by patches and DLC, not harmed by them.

IncredulousP · Feb 20, 2020

Xzi said:
but the good news is that the originals still exist in abundance,

You sure? I've tried to find the original unedited theatrical release and haven't been able to. As far as I know it doesn't exist, though I found a fan edited project that tries to reproduce it from memory of those that saw it in theaters.

Xzi · Feb 20, 2020

IncredulousP said:
You sure? I've tried to find the original unedited theatrical release and haven't been able to. As far as I know it doesn't exist, though I found a fan edited project that tries to reproduce it from memory of those that saw it in theaters.

Oh, yeah I guess I'm not sure with Star Wars in particular. Much easier to preserve media now than it was when that first released, obviously.

Deleted User · Feb 20, 2020

IncredulousP said:
You sure? I've tried to find the original unedited theatrical release and haven't been able to. As far as I know it doesn't exist, though I found a fan edited project that tries to reproduce it from memory of those that saw it in theaters.

There were multiple different cuts which made it to theaters, which is why different people remember it differently.

AkiraKurusu · Feb 20, 2020

IncredulousP said:
You sure? I've tried to find the original unedited theatrical release and haven't been able to. As far as I know it doesn't exist, though I found a fan edited project that tries to reproduce it from memory of those that saw it in theaters.

Xzi said:
Oh, yeah I guess I'm not sure with Star Wars in particular. Much easier to preserve media now than it was when that first released, obviously.

...That's because Lucasfilm never really allowed the theatrical release to be archived anywhere. Heck, they even refused to give the organisation tasked with preserving American classics a copy of the theatrical release, and later tried to give them one of the later edited versions.

Deleted User · Feb 20, 2020

as a gay, for some reason, the scene doesn't bother me, its awkward and forced as hell but i wish they wouldn't censor a game just because resetera bitched about it

edit: i just rather have a game that stays true to the original developer's vision because you then you end up with something called persona 1. also like how atlus is prioritizing this altering this scene over stocking up on p5r, they cancelled my preorder on amazon.

guisadop · Feb 20, 2020

who could possibly find that scene offensive?

raxadian · Feb 20, 2020

Song Of The South, at least the VHS release, is only racist because the old guy telling the stories is African American and works for a white guy. Edit: The movie is set AFTER the Civil War so he is not a slave.

Had it been about a black man telling the stories to his two black sons the movie wouldn't be considered racist. But doing the movie that way would have been impossible back then.

Edit: Yes the tar baby is a tad racist by current standars, but the tar baby is based on African folklore.

DS1 · Feb 20, 2020

So my hot take is.that this game isn't exactly a masterpiece story-wise, so I don't think anyone should be too upset by their failure to maintain the sanctity of... uhh.. whatever.

My actual opinion is that the last time I played this game was the Japanese version when it first released, and I only remember the street scene (not the beach scene), and was barely paying attention (much like most of the pointless interlude dialogue), but picked up on the homophobia despite being like mid-to-low skill in reading Japanese and was like, "Real
y? It's freakin 2016.. ."

MagnesG · Feb 20, 2020

Snugglevixen said:
This is tame compared to a pride parade. I agree with changing it though as it's an irrelevant short gag which isn't palatable. Maybe it's a chance to fit in a better gag, though Atlus doesn't have a great track record when it comes to upgrading things *bodysuit dress ptsd intensifies*

This is Atlus USA we're talking here, bunch of pc pc triggered pussies taking judgements out of their filthy asses.

Prior22 · Feb 20, 2020

Any idea why the Persona series is overwhelmingly released on Sony platforms? Would like to see some of them on Switch too.

osaka35 · Feb 20, 2020

Does this honestly change anything about the story ofher than make some of the characters look less like an ahole? Do these edits better reflect rhe characters or are they important pieces to understanding them? I thought it was just a bad-taste joke which benefits the game to be removed?

IncredulousP said:
You sure? I've tried to find the original unedited theatrical release and haven't been able to. As far as I know it doesn't exist, though I found a fan edited project that tries to reproduce it from memory of those that saw it in theaters.

Last unedited version was the...2004(?) Dvd releases. I have them somewhere. Laserdisc and vhs before that (i only have 1 of the laserdisc

). But nothing HD, only SD. I'm not sure of the different edits prior to this, but it's the last before those cg revisionist versions.

But the fan edits do a good job of making the HD content as close to the theatericals as possible. It's what I show folks.

Expect disney to release them in 4k/8k at some point(that kind of film can go up to 16k i think), depending on what agreements were made when they got the rights.

Deleted User · Feb 20, 2020

James_ said:
insert Scott the Woz reference here

What's the reference?

I watched some of Scott's videos, but the blue border and his attempt at being funny just made me avoid watching his videos altogether.

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Silent_Gunner said:
Give them an inch, they'll demand a mile.

That's the issue nowadays. They complain about something miniscule and then they'll start demanding more changes.

Most of the time those who complain aren't even going to buy the game.

urbanman2004 · Feb 20, 2020

Everybody's so sensitive nowadays and folks always try to find a way to be offended a/b something so now big corps make decisions as if they're walking on egg shells while bowing to pressure in this so-called PC culture in today's society, afraid of getting "canceled" and so the artist's vision suffers because end-product gets modified to the point contrary to how it was originally intended to be enjoyed due to "politics".

SG854 · Feb 20, 2020

osaka35 said:
Does this honestly change anything about the story ofher than make some of the characters look less like an ahole? Do these edits better reflect rhe characters or are they important pieces to understanding them? I thought it was just a bad-taste joke which benefits the game to be removed?

Last unedited version was the...2004(?) Dvd releases. I have them somewhere. Laserdisc and vhs before that (i only have 1 of the laserdisc ). But nothing HD, only SD. I'm not sure of the different edits prior to this, but it's the last before those cg revisionist versions.

But the fan edits do a good job of making the HD content as close to the theatericals as possible. It's what I show folks.

Expect disney to release them in 4k/8k at some point(that kind of film can go up to 16k i think), depending on what agreements were made when they got the rights.

2004 is definitely the edited version. The specialized version came out in 1997.

IncredulousP said:
You sure? I've tried to find the original unedited theatrical release and haven't been able to. As far as I know it doesn't exist, though I found a fan edited project that tries to reproduce it from memory of those that saw it in theaters.

Xzi said:
Oh, yeah I guess I'm not sure with Star Wars in particular. Much easier to preserve media now than it was when that first released, obviously.

It is. There is a 4k scan of the original copy of the 35mm film, called project 4k77 by team negative 1. Not the negatives but its the best we got.

fafaldo · Feb 20, 2020

I think most of you guys are looking at this change from the wrong angle.

Being a gay guy myself I can tell you what if wrong in here: showing gay people like this. I know that everyone knows not every gay looks and behaves like this but somehow, magically, almost every character that appears in movies or video games is portrayed like this. And believe me - most people get and remember exactly that image afterwards and it's extremely difficult to convince them otherwise. I guess it's worth adding that for exactly the same reason I am a big opposer of pride parades - the same thing. And believe me, most of gay people I know are actually against them as well.

So I think the word 'offensive' or 'offended' that was used in the article and is quoted by you guys is a bit too strong - it's all just about not showing this stereotypical image as it really could be harmful.

Cheers

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