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Trump Impeachment: Public Hearings Have Begun

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notimp

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Morals as set by 'one senator voted out of order' is bad? ;)

Just playing. Public perception matters. But it doesnt mean, that you should claim a moral victory with poor arguments. ;)

The better argument here is, that they won by not letting whitnesses give their accounts.

But then if roles were reversed, the other side wouldnt have either..

In politics morals dont matter so much, aside from gaining votes. And thats largely a good thing (so you can make compromises, and not have to always vote alongside party lines (morals are different than convictions f.e.)) And thats in the same instance also, why we all love to hate politics so much. Its largely amoral.

For voters they also seem to matter less, in the past years, but in the end always more so than for the people in deciding roles.

Trust me the last person you want there is a moral hardliner. :)

(Pence anyone? ;) He and his wife whom he calls 'Mother'? ))

A 'good' politician should be informed by morals, but not always act because of them. Thats kind of a conundrum. :)
 
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FGFlann

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Okay...not to sound offensive, but at this point it's just your ignorance at work. Take notice: up until Obama, it would've been a valid criticism: democrats and republicans claimed to be different but executed roughly the same agenda.

Nowadays the parties are so far apart that I can't rule out a civil war. This is all but a "we might disagree publicly but just get along fine when no camera's rolling" situation.
You've completely missed the point. It is not to imply that the parties have the same agenda but exhibit the same behaviour. It is a circular game of lies and fingerpointing that ultimately leads nowhere.
 

omgcat

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You've completely missed the point. It is not to imply that the parties have the same agenda but exhibit the same behaviour. It is a circular game of lies and fingerpointing that ultimately leads nowhere.

except both parties don't exhibit the same behaviors. one party systematically builds services and improves the country, and the other party systematically dismantles systems and then claims that they never worked after hamstringing them. I'll leave which party does what to your imagination.
 

FGFlann

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except both parties don't exhibit the same behaviors. one party systematically builds services and improves the country, and the other party systematically dismantles systems and then claims that they never worked after hamstringing them. I'll leave which party does what to your imagination.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not involve my heavy suspicion of bias, lol. But, again, the difference between behaviour and agenda is stark enough that we can put this into the latter column. Conservatives, as their name implies, should strive to minimize the effect of government on the public purse, this does unfortunately often mean that public services get removed. Whether this is good or bad is down to the wants and biases of the observer, but it is still their agenda. The general behaviour of political parties *toward each other* is a circular game of jeering, and neither will acknowledge anything good that the other does.
 

omgcat

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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not involve my heavy suspicion of bias, lol. But, again, the difference between behaviour and agenda is stark enough that we can put this into the latter column. Conservatives, as their name implies, should strive to minimize the effect of government on the public purse, this does unfortunately often mean that public services get removed. Whether this is good or bad is down to the wants and biases of the observer, but it is still their agenda. The general behaviour of political parties *toward each other* is a circular game of jeering, and neither will acknowledge anything good that the other does.

If conservatives really wanted to "tighten the purse" of the nation, we wouldn't be passing tax cuts to the rich while increasing spending at the same time on programs that are not logical or data driven.
 
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FGFlann

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Okay, but that would be the topic of bad policy and is getting us further off point. And I can't just take your word for it. A thread about the effects of policy could always be made for that specific discussion. It's bad enough already that I have to defend a meme of spiderman pointing at spiderman.
 
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morvoran

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@morvoran He will remain an impeached president forever, and is so far the only president to EVER have a senator of his own party vote for his conviction in the 243 years of the united states.
You must have missed my post above where I already talked about this. I don't blame you since there's so much liberal BS to skim through.
Next year, the Republicans will be the House majority and will expunge the articles of impeachment from the records of Congress making this stain on Trump's presidency null and void. In other words, he'll only impeached* for a year, not forever. You're welcome.
 

Taleweaver

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You've completely missed the point. It is not to imply that the parties have the same agenda but exhibit the same behaviour. It is a circular game of lies and fingerpointing that ultimately leads nowhere.
Ah, ok. Fair enough. You might want to pick a picture where the two characters aren't identical, but I certainly see what you're trying to say. :)

I don't agree with it, though. Unless you can point out a source where democrats are debunked on their claims based on facts somewhere. Bcause thus far, I've seen one side bring paper trails, (admittedly: circumstancial) evidence, (interpretations of) the constitution and witnesses to back up their claim. The other side does minimizing, lies, finger pointing and deflection tactics.

Both sides are about the same size, so the "it leads nowhere" is something I can certainly agree to. But the same behavior? No. I honestly can't think of anything even remotely similar.
 

FGFlann

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We'll have to agree to disagree. Everybody lies and there are no innocent people, that includes US democrats. Not that I was targetting the United States in particular but the nature of party politics in general.
 

tabzer

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Taleweaver is weaving a tale to fit a narrative of good vs evil. It's a pipe-dream. I would say that you could say the opposite is true, but I don't believe the Republicans had their own witnesses in roster, so they had to use the ones chosen by the house to get their satisfaction. To me, it looks like the whole thing was an attempt to convince people that the fog was smoke but there was no gun, or even the threat of one. It seems like you have to align yourself, entirely, with the Democratic party in order to claim what Trump did was wrong and what Biden did was not. It's crazy, and clearly closer to being the other way around. How this isn't clear as day to some people is so strange, especially considering that they aren't being rewarded for their efforts. There would have to be incentive somewhere, right?

On a side not, good god, these ads on this site are becoming atrocious.
 
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FGFlann

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The entire process was fraught with irregularities. From both sides denying the other access to witnesses and documentation to misuse of legal statutes. It's been a gigantic farce through and through and I don't expect the situation to improve any time soon.
 

tabzer

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It's the new era of reality tv that Trump seems to be hosting. Is he a puppet master or are the clowns all in on it?
 

WeedZ

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"Its all just political theater, it's a sham to keep people distracted. Both sides have misused legal statute and are corrupt. The government is a woven hand and glove system of career politicians that use the same unethical methods to meet their own ends."

Tabzer- "and trump must be the master mind behind it playing all these clowns like puppets."

I think I sprained my eyeballs rolling them so hard.
 

tabzer

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"Its all just political theater, it's a sham to keep people distracted. Both sides have misused legal statute and are corrupt. The government is a woven hand and glove system of career politicians that use the same unethical methods to meet their own ends."

Tabzer- "and trump must be the master mind behind it playing all these clowns like puppets."

I think I sprained my eyeballs rolling them so hard.

Look man, can you quote me, or at least make it look like you are trying? It's a shame that a moderator would succumb to being fake as hell. You have to be illiterate to think that's the actual insinuation; completely ignoring the context and destroying the rhetoric like that. Maybe you feel like being a jerk.
 
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WeedZ

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Look man, can you quote me, or at least make it look like you are trying. It's a shame that a moderator would succumb to being fake as hell. You have to be illiterate to think that's the actual insinuation; completely ignoring the context and destroying the rhetoric like that. Maybe you are just a jerk.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Everybody lies and there are no innocent people, that includes US democrats. Not that I was targetting the United States in particular but the nature of party politics in general.

The entire process was fraught with irregularities. From both sides denying the other access to witnesses and documentation to misuse of legal statutes. It's been a gigantic farce through and through and I don't expect the situation to improve any time soon.

It's the new era of reality tv that Trump seems to be hosting. Is he a puppet master or are the clowns all in on it?

I think I sprained my eyeballs rolling them so hard.
 

FGFlann

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I don't know if I'm supposed to take something from this myself but if you have an issue with anything I've said in particular we can address it.
 

tabzer

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It's the new era of reality tv that Trump seems to be hosting. Is he a puppet master or are the clowns all in on it?

I think I sprained my eyeballs rolling them so hard.

So, do you you disagree with something that's been said, or are you having trouble understanding the reason I polarized two extremes like that?
 
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