Hardware PS3 60gb lifespan after delidding?

britain4 · Jan 22, 2019

Hey guys

Got a few 60gb PS3s now that have never been YLOD repaired, and I’ve removed the IHSs on and done the thermal paste. All run comfortably under 60c on both chips in GTA5 at 35% ish fan speed when set using Webman.

Also have my main, reballed one I’ve been using for a couple of years now.

Common knowledge is that these get the YLOD from running too hot and the solder balls cracking - are they still likely to eventually get the YLOD even running at 60 instead of 70s - 80s like an untouched one? Anyone ever had one fail (that wasn’t reflowed) running at these temps?

Anyone ever had a reballed one with lead solder go?

pure3d2 · Jan 23, 2020

The solder balls don't crack. That's a BS assumption made by people without a background in engineering years ago that people just keep repeating and parroting.

Consoles reballed with leaded solder still fail after a few months to a year.

The issue is the bad NEC TOKIN capacitors near the XELL and RSX chips (4 on the top and 4 on the bottom of the board, 8 total).

DinohScene · Jan 23, 2020

It's the NEC/TOKIN caps yeh.

Replace those and you'll be good for years to come.

smf · Jan 23, 2020

DinohScene said:
It's the NEC/TOKIN caps yeh.

Except nvidia did have issues at that time which required them to change video chips on many PC based systems due to thermal shock and they had to fix the problem first. I'm not saying that there isn't a problem with capacitors as well, but it's not a smoking gun of "newer gpu's don't have the problem, so it must be the capacitors".

DinohScene · Jan 23, 2020

smf said:
Except nvidia did have issues at that time which required them to change video chips on many PC based systems. They figured out the lead free solder after that. I'm not saying that there isn't a problem with capacitors as well, but it's not a smoking gun of "newer systems use lead free solder and work, so it can't be the lead free solder".

360 is plagued by the heat issues as well. the solderballs crack after repeated heat/cooling cycles.
So yeh, lead free solder does indeed have something to do with it.

As for the PS3, if after a reball, the console still YLODs, it's usually the caps or a far more serious problem like a dead RSX etc.

smf · Jan 23, 2020

DinohScene said:
As for the PS3, if after a reball, the console still YLODs, it's usually the caps or a far more serious problem like a dead RSX etc.

My understanding is it's the substrate to the carrier that is often the problem, reballing just masks that.

Keeping the temperature constant is one way round it. I had an 8600GT in a laptop and that died when it was about 4 years old, I had it replaced and the new one has lasted ever since.

pure3d2 · Jan 23, 2020

smf said:
Except nvidia did have issues at that time which required them to change video chips on many PC based systems due to thermal shock and they had to fix the problem first. I'm not saying that there isn't a problem with capacitors as well, but it's not a smoking gun of "newer gpu's don't have the problem, so it must be the capacitors".

Are you referring to nVidia's "bad bumps" fiasco? I wasn't aware that the bad bumps affected the RSX. The bad bumps were on their 65nm and 55nm chips, not their 90nm chips (RSX in the PS3 phat). Source: https://semiaccurate.com/2010/07/11/why-nvidias-chips-are-defective/

These bumps are not the same as the solder balls. They're the tiny (100 microns thick) solder balls which connect the die to the PCB substrate on a flip-chip.

It was in fact the newer chips which had this issue, which nVidia had to spend about $200 million for replacements.

DinohScene · Jan 23, 2020

smf said:
My understanding is it's the substrate to the carrier that is often the problem, reballing just masks that.

Keeping the temperature constant is one way round it. I had an 8600GT in a laptop and that died when it was about 4 years old, I had it replaced and the new one has lasted ever since.

I did modify both the 360 and PS3 models that I got to have a more adequate airflow in the console haha.
Stock design is rubbish.

pop13_13 · Jan 23, 2020

smf · Jan 23, 2020

pop13_13 said:
And you will just temporarly fix this by heating it...

But I still don't get it, why do you need a reball, if cracked solder can be fixed by melting it and letting it solidify again.

It's probably most effective applying heat from underneath the cpu & that requires you to remove the chip from the motherboard and reball it.

AFAIK It's like a sandwidth. You have something like heat spreader, paste, wafer, balls, carrier, balls, motherboard. I think it's impractical to reball the wafer directly.

britain4 · Jan 24, 2020

I forgot all about this thread! I have been reading recently about the situation with the caps on these causing the YLOD. Very interesting stuff and the cap fix looks totally doable.

Wonder how many of these have been thrown out over the years over a red herring instead of a relatively easy permanent fix.

Unsure if the 360 RROD issues are caused by the same thing or are they actually the BGA or flip chip at fault?

pure3d2 · Jan 25, 2020

britain4 said:
I forgot all about this thread! I have been reading recently about the situation with the caps on these causing the YLOD. Very interesting stuff and the cap fix looks totally doable.

Wonder how many of these have been thrown out over the years over a red herring instead of a relatively easy permanent fix.

Unsure if the 360 RROD issues are caused by the same thing or are they actually the BGA or flip chip at fault?

iirc, 360 RROD was caused by bad solder balls (they lowered QA standards to get as many units out as possible--remember it took a good 6 months before you could go to a store and pick up a 360?). Louis Rossmann says it's because the 360's nVidia's flip-chip had issues.

SundayWarrior · Jan 25, 2020

Old X360 have different issue - chip detachment from the substrate. Original ps3 good console, only NEC token is problem (and thermal paste under ihc ofcourse).
Next revision ps3 fat with low bild cost not so good.

Ps. Change fan to cechl model - most effective and silent

pop13_13 · Jan 26, 2020

pure3d2 · Jan 26, 2020

pop13_13 said:
Wasn't the GPU from ATI?

Oh yeah you're right. ATI was in the 360's GPU and nVidia was in the PS3's RSX.

Hardware PS3 60gb lifespan after delidding?

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