U.S officals misled the public

Deleted User · Dec 10, 2019

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...apers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/
I... I don't have any words to describe how I feel.

IncredulousP · Dec 10, 2019

monkeyman4412 said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...apers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/
I... I don't have any words to describe how I feel.

I'm just shocked, absolutely shocked. No wait, I'm not at all shocked. Call me cynical, but our leadership has been a shitfest for decades.

cots · Dec 10, 2019

monkeyman4412 said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...apers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/
I... I don't have any words to describe how I feel.

I'll have to read about this later, but you do realize how long we've been meddling in middle eastern affairs, do you not? I think most of this mess (our involvement) started in the early 1900's when Woodrow Wilson drew an artificial border around three enemy fractions, the Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis creating today's Iraq. I think it was after WII2 that we started to need their oil. Our army has been over there in some sort of official capacity for 40 years. Kid you not most of this is about Israel and Oil. The Middle East has also been in turmoil for over the past 3,000 years due to something about the Jews taking the Promised Land away from the people that are now Muslims at that time. I highly doubt the conflicts over there will ever end. People dream about a Global Word Government and peace on Earth, but fail to realize there's such a thing as middle eastern countries and Muslims that would never accept such a thing. Honestly, we'd have to wipe them off the face of the planet to get them to agree. Basically what I'm stating is this is nothing new. It's just a continuation of the way the world works. Not saying it's okay, but that region of the Earth is filled with a bunch of religious fanatical warring factions that we depend on for oil. You can see why drilling our own until we can shift over to renewables is something that should be allowed to happen.

Xzi · Dec 10, 2019

Who could have possibly predicted Afghanistan would become an afterthought as soon as we invaded Iraq? /s

The sad truth is that America was so blinded by bloodlust after 9/11, we would've gone to war with any country GWB pointed his finger at. And of course he didn't point the finger at Saudi Arabia, the country actually responsible for training and harboring almost all of the hijackers, because they're our "ally." It's absolutely sickening, particularly when you come to the realization that Americans learned nothing from these decades of war crimes and profiteering. It won't surprise me in the least when we do it all over again with Iran.

RationalityIsLost101 · Dec 10, 2019

Much of American foreign policy centers around corporate imperialism, something that hasn't changed since the banana wars. Taxpayers pay for our military to pursue corporate interests, over the years the industries change but the rest remains the same. Some argue this is the cost of being a 'superpower' and point to corporate imperialism as the reason for our strong economy over the decades but I have strong reservations. Especially in modern times, taking our tax dollars to help subsidize certain industries doesn't always reflect in our nation's best interest, the especially the interest of the american consumer.

spotanjo3 · Dec 10, 2019

Not surprised. Not shocked at all. Disgusting and they are really RETARDS! WARS WILL ONLY GETTING WORSE AND WORSE. MOST HUMAN ARE OBVIOUSLY THE SCUM ON THE EARTH. They don't know what they are doing but killing. NO LOVE AND NO PEACE. ONLY HATRED! *SHOUT*

Deleted User · Dec 10, 2019

if you take out afghanistan then this sounds almost like vietnam again

“We were devoid of a fundamental understanding of Afghanistan — we didn’t know what we were doing,”

"The documents also contradict a long chorus of public statements from U.S. presidents, military commanders and diplomats who assured Americans year after year that they were making progress in Afghanistan and the war was worth fighting."

http://wapo.st/2pSqA52?document=lute_doug_ll_01_d5_02202015&page=3&anno=4&filter=filter-spin

RationalityIsLost101 · Dec 10, 2019

azoreseuropa said:
MOST HUMAN ARE OBVIOUSLY THE SCUM ON THE EARTH.

I can't tell if you are just responding in satire with your recent posts in almost all caps or not. Most people are just people. You can sit down and talk with them, find common understanding, and use that towards a common goal. To say otherwise is just incorrect.

spotanjo3 · Dec 10, 2019

RationalityIsLost101 said:
I can't tell if you are just responding in satire with your recent posts in almost all caps or not. Most people are just people. You can sit down and talk with them, find common understanding, and use that towards a common goal. To say otherwise is just incorrect.

As I said. when I use the caps letters then I am shouting.

Most people are just people ? Really ? Sorry but I absolutely disagreed with you. Sit down, find common understanding, and use that towards a common goal ? Are you kidding me ? It is not getting anywhere.

RationalityIsLost101 · Dec 10, 2019

azoreseuropa said:
As I said. when I use the caps letters then I am shouting.

Most people are just people ? Really ? Sorry but I absolutely disagreed with you. Sit down, find common understanding, and use that towards a common goal ? Are you kidding me ? It is not getting anywhere.

Ok, I'll take us as a prime example. A primary source if you will.

We both obviously feel conflicted about what is happening and the violence that is occurring? Yes or No?

Deleted User · Dec 10, 2019

RationalityIsLost101 said:
Ok, I'll take us as a prime example. A primary source if you will.

We both obviously feel conflicted about what is happening and the violence that is occurring? Yes or No?

neither of you have a military

RationalityIsLost101 · Dec 10, 2019

Eix said:
neither of you have a military

Ok, if I was to put it in context with more in lines with ontopic discussion. Despite that I don't subscribe to washington post and cannot view the article in question, I will persist because specifics of the article don't have to be used to make a sound argument. A generalization of most people being scum is just incorrect. I'm not oblivious or naive of our foreign policy, as we have some goals within it that I absolutely disavow. I'll refer to my first post on this thread for evidence of that.

I move forward to show how we don't hear about how many wars different countries actually stop through trade agreements, presence of military pressure or aid.

Does it mean it doesn't occur. That there aren't successes were lives were spared and war was avoided?

If you want to specify even further into a specific region of the world fine, but when doing so, be mindful of the original statement that I brought forth an argument against.

Deleted User · Dec 10, 2019

RationalityIsLost101 said:
Ok, if I was to put it in context with more in lines with ontopic discussion. Despite that I don't subscribe to washington post and cannot view the article in question, I will persist because specifics of the article don't have to be used to make a sound argument. A generalization of most people being scum is just incorrect. I'm not oblivious or naive of our foreign policy, as we have some goals within it that I absolutely disavow. I'll refer to my first post on this thread for evidence of that.

I move forward to show how we don't hear about how many wars different countries actually stop through trade agreements, presence of military pressure or aid.

Does it mean it doesn't occur. That there aren't successes were lives were spared and war was avoided?

If you want to specify even further into a specific region of the world fine, but when doing so, be mindful of the original statement that I brought forth an argument against.

there are successful talks but...
the united states is kinda not the kind of country to sit down and seriously talk once the fighting starts unless something really big happens

RationalityIsLost101 · Dec 10, 2019

Eix said:
there are successful talks but...
the united states is kinda not the kind of country to sit down and seriously talk once the fighting starts unless something really big happens

I agree. I think it has alot to do with who we helm the ship. We have put so many people at the wheel (congressmen and presidents) over the years who all have made mistakes, alot of them. Getting other Americans to vote and support people who can make better decisions is a strong option. This is kinda where I was going to go to with my 1-1 w/ @azoreseuropa but I may have missed the mark as I wanted to lead into it without trying to just sound preachy.

If people (Americans) sit down, discuss and are informed, I believe they will make the right choice in supporting and electing representatives that will mirror the values and policies we want as a whole. It's... difficult and trying at times, but that is where I believe as a mindset of finding common understanding and a common goal plays.

spotanjo3 · Dec 10, 2019

RationalityIsLost101 said:
If people (Americans) sit down, discuss and are informed, I believe they will make the right choice in supporting and electing representatives that will mirror the values and policies we want as a whole. It's... difficult and trying at times, but that is where I believe as a mindset of finding common understanding and a common goal plays.

Hahaha.. you really wish it is that simple. Absolutely no. It won't happen before and it won't happen in the future. Never. You keep your eyes on the SIGN of this world. It is only getting much much worse than you ever imagine in the future. Much worse!

RationalityIsLost101 · Dec 10, 2019

azoreseuropa said:
Hahaha.. you really wish it is that simple. Absolutely no. It won't happen before and it won't happen in the future. Never. You keep your eyes on the SIGN of this world. It is only getting much much worse than you ever imagine in the future. Much worse!

I think it is possible with the majority. I'm sure you will find partisan zealots on both sides of the spectrum who have long tuned out to reason and logic. Most people can still be open to discussion, the issue first is obtaining common ground, to do that you must be able to at least be open to their concerns and find the root of that concern, you may actually be surprised to find that you and another who think differently share the same concern once it is distilled to the root. If you think 'most people' are scum then you may need to spend time to find more people because it sounds like you are working with a pretty small sample size. If that is a geographical limitation then the internet is here.

spotanjo3 · Dec 10, 2019

RationalityIsLost101 said:
I think it is possible with the majority. I'm sure you will find partisan zealots on both sides of the spectrum who have long tuned out to reason and logic. Most people can still be open to discussion, the issue first is obtaining common ground, to do that you must be able to at least be open to their concerns and find the root of that concern, you may actually be surprised to find that you and another who think differently share the same concern once it is distilled to the root. If you think 'most people' are scum then you may need to spend time to find more people because it sounds like you are working with a pretty small sample size. If that is a geographical limitation then the internet is here.

I am sorry but I am not talking about working with a pretty small sample size. What you see will not work and it will never work at all. Why ? You need to woke up:

The war was happened because they didn't accept difference. what Nazi try to do was cleanse other race.
and what Master and Enclave try to do is not changed since WW2. not only WW2 has same meaning there's tons of wars that happened because they don't accept differences. It never changes, all the effects of it are the same.

You gotta pay attention, @RationalityIsLost101

Humans, in all their intellectual might, have cranked up the volume to the max, so war gets a bit more extreme - like genocide, holocaust, chemical, biological and nuclear warfare, entire destruction of planet and large portion of its biosphere...that kinda stuff.

But in core, it's all the same. Domination. Wealth. Power.

From all that comes war. War never changes.

Yes, war never changes. Period and simple!

RationalityIsLost101 · Dec 10, 2019

azoreseuropa said:
I am sorry but I am not talking about working with a pretty small sample size. What you see will not work and it will never work at all. Why ? You need to woke up:

The war was happened because they didn't accept difference. what Nazi try to do was cleanse other race.
and what Master and Enclave try to do is not changed since WW2. not only WW2 has same meaning there's tons of wars that happened because they don't accept differences. It never changes, all the effects of it are the same.

You gotta pay attention, @RationalityIsLost101

Humans, in all their intellectual might, have cranked up the volume to the max, so war gets a bit more extreme - like genocide, holocaust, chemical, biological and nuclear warfare, entire destruction of planet and large portion of its biosphere...that kinda stuff.

But in core, it's all the same. Domination. Wealth. Power.

From all that comes war. War never changes.

Yes, war never changes. Period and simple!

People will war. But the potential for peace is there for those who fight for it. 'Most people' aren't scum - 'Most people' desire peace. That is a common ground that can be leveraged to prevent war. If bad actors are allowed into power, and good people do nothing, then atrocities will be committed for those individuals to dominate in attempts to gain more wealth and power.

IncredulousP · Dec 10, 2019

RationalityIsLost101 said:
Most people' desire peace

I don't know, nearly half the nation voted for a white supremacist and talk about 'owning' the snowflakes, with strong support for guns, loose gun control, and poor education.

RationalityIsLost101 · Dec 10, 2019

IncredulousP said:
I don't know, nearly half the nation voted for a white supremacist and talk about 'owning' the snowflakes, with strong support for guns, loose gun control, and poor education.

Well, almost half of the voting electorate, I'm perplexed about that as well, but I think it has more to do with the root cause of frustration. Most people who desired Trump over another republican candidate (that wasn't a white supremacist) felt they were ignored, 'that the government stopped working for them'. There's concern that jobs were being sent overseas. This is really offtopic but its interesting as there is common ground that people feel corporations get much better tax rates, hold the power over our own public representatives, etc.

I'm going to depart from this thread though as I'm boderline derailing it, I can't actually view the attached article and left my thoughts on it already.

U.S officals misled the public

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