Let's figure out something that only streaming games could do

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Presently we are all watching Stadia, which is the latest attempt at streaming computer games to people and in this case it is Google's turn, be a complete disaster. This is to the surprise of nobody that even vaguely knows how computers and games work, seemingly save perhaps those people that funded the thing. Maybe it is a long play to be the one leading the dance if it all manages to actually kick off but right now... yeah.

However a comment on another thread got me curious
What it needs is a killer app : that one exclusive game that otherwise couldn't be possible. A game that fully tells the world 'screw your scepticism because I Am Here To Stay'.

What might this be? What could be done that would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for conventional game hardware in consumer friendly packages to pull off that gamers either want, or don't necessarily right now realise they want?

The immediate thought for most is they can have the absolute screamingly fastest setup available and push the kind of pixels in real time that consoles and most PCs can only dream of, but make it available for the masses. We have seen stuff like this before, indeed anybody that ever heard the phrase "arcade perfect home port" experienced a version of that -- arcade machines by virtue of their continuous income could push the hardware boat out massively in a way that home consoles (PCs of the time were not quite games machines) could never compete with, or if they could then it was only after a few years and then it starts all over again as the state of the art has moved on further.
However that is boring so I want specifics if we are doing that, limited to what the real world or near future likely provides -- a 8 CPU and thus 64 core and 16 card SLI setup might be possible in theory but it still limits what can be done practically in the modern world.

I saw in another discussion about upcoming flight sims possibly storing terabytes remotely such that full recreations of real world locations to continent level is an option. Doing that locally is tricky for the time being if 90 gigs is pushing the envelope for a single game install... however storage costs are dropping all the time so might that catch up before long?
Similarly would that be all that interesting? As it stands procedural generation can give me an awful lot if I so desire, and do it in an absolutely tiny package (the original Elite from 1984 could give me a massive universe to explore, though they were told to limit it more than they could theoretically have done, and more directed stuff can do better still).
Some devs regard procedural generation, and the AI that follows from it, as a dirty word or a false promise* (I would probably consider them incompetent or uninspired but we can skip that one for now), there are however still practical limitations to the concept and a bit of human touch still appreciated for the time being. I don't know what the level size limit for the human mind actually is (number of friends has things like Dunbar's number, it is also generally assumed most humans don't think much beyond the horizon but we can probably recall more games maps than that, and characters from works too). This also says nothing about what benefits from more complexity there might be; "I don't have to visit it, but the option being there is enough". Similarly we can achieve that on a normal system now without needing some kind of remote processing or storage.

Maybe instead of graphics we could have AI worth noting. I don't have my own supercomputer but I can talk to one to play chess that will beat even the best humans going if I so desired. Chess is not really the end goal but such things could happily be expanded. Related at this point would be discussions of game complexity, recent efforts with machine learning to produce computers that can compete at Go and things like the old XBLA Magic the Gathering AI being reasonable jumping off points.

*Such things will eventually do far more than today. As it stands AI procedurally generated music, voice overs, news stories, behaviours, levels and more are all things doing very well. Now while story scripts still leave something to be desired it is generally a sooner rather than later anticipation here (most news stories being written by AI are usually simple here is a change in the market, here are some other changes, here are some things that happened leading up to this, which is all some news sites really need for a lot of stories) then song lyrics will probably be the first.
Instead of AI maybe we see some human actors be more viable than they are right now? Though again is that not already something of an option? Surely the likes of World of Warcraft or Eve Online could host a human controlled something but have them paid to run a shop or something slightly tedious.

Multiplayer is a thing here. As it stands for games like Civilisation we have seen some fairly creative ways to essentially do a play by email and not allow people the option to cheese the system taking the best turn they can (start of turn, send scout in every direction loading each time, pick best course of action as a result of info gleaned and send that save back to the server). Being remote then you could consider it essentially immune to this outside of someone hacking in which already is a rare problem, not to mention limiting options for sniffing data they are theoretically not supposed to have.
Somewhat amusingly then for lag (more on that later) if everybody is effectively in the same bit of system memory then it somewhat turns the ping negation and other aspects of "the internet sucks" on their head, obviously still got some problems with lag to work around (maybe some kind of AI takeover if ping drops too much) but it is a different take on the matter and solves several problems all at once. Might it be how we reasonably get 1000 vs 1000 player servers? One idea that has consistently floated around is the option for 1000 people to all join at a given time and recreate a large battle, even if one player ends up being little more than a gunner responsible for a small section of a ship in that particular instance.
It might also allow for some measure of control enough that gambling and other real money going in and out to users becomes a proper option. People have been saying if people can earn a living from games then that will change everything for many years now (far from the first but a good source might be those things for 2012's Diablo 3 with its "real money auction house") but it still remains true that if many people can then that will change things.

We have seen data from fighting game tournaments be fed back into games to improve AI there. Mega CPU plus it all being local to it could make for some serious tweaks here, and possibly some kind of push back/balancing/openings for an interesting story twist if it thinks things are going wrong (we already see stuff like the left4dead director). Theoretically such things could already be done (input + time of input is not lots of data) but I am sure the folks that spend time contemplating metrics are giddy with anticipation of what such services could allow them to do. If nothing else stats + human "invisible" moderation + instantaneous patching means exploits might not propagate far; if player times/damage/funds have achieved these results outside of expected variables then oh no look your glitch gun broke.

Combining with the memory above then maybe we see some more persistent world stuff rather than endless replayed instances. Though frankly that could be done now in some ways (see minecraft)... that said combined with the large level stuff from earlier then maybe not. I would not mind seeing a true survival game like this, especially if pinging out saw my character go AI and attempt to return home/finish the task within my capabilities as it were.

So starting with the assumption that streaming allows those doing streaming games a complete control of essentially a supercomputer, one somewhat immune to hackers, one with only the lag to remote players (which could be made low if certain expensive things are done) being the main issue then what could be achieved that presently is difficult, if not impossible, that would make for a far more compelling experience?
As part of this theorising I can allow some kind of lag negation; if they did it local to the town/city, or even better, then it would be more than acceptable, but that is actual investment and seemingly more than they care to do right here. We can also skip the "I don't own my games", "muh bandwidth caps" and "I want mods" type discussions as they are issues for some but not so very great when all is said and done (people already give their money to Steam for scarcely any better, such caps are a non issue in a lot of the world and *points at consoles*).
 

leon315

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I mean, I can get unlimited, but I shouldn't have to pay extra. My other points still stand, lag, not being able to keep games, no support for more than one Android device on launch. Google Stadia is shit.
honestly as an ex console player, i hope Stadia or anything similar could become a success: 3 years ago i wished to play games properly (60fps 1080p) I paid 1500€ to build a pc with 6700k cpu,16gb ram and gtx1070.....

As you see gaming on pc is extremely expensive and it's not affordable by average family, if Google or Apple is able to offer a good stream service, i don't need to upgrade HW anymore.

1500€/9.90€ monthly fee/12= i could sub for 12,6 years! and Internet meanwhile will certainly get improved and we might see 6G or even 7G within years to come! ALL WITHOUT ANY HW UPGRADING.

Game streaming has a lot of potential and things like gaming PC/consoles like Blockbuster will become obsolete and inevitably got replaced by NETFLIX/GAME STREAM. Honestly i wish i could just stop worrying if my 1070+6700k can still handle games next year.
 
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Xzi

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Beyond offering high-end performance to people with low-end local hardware for a similarly low price point, I can't think of anything. Probably the best way to make streaming appealing is to turn it into a form of instant Redbox: $5 month-long rentals of games available the day of release. After all, there's no assurance that any streaming service is going to stick around long enough to warrant a full purchase.
 

JavaScribe

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Let's hope you're in the direct line of sight of where the transmitter is. :P
Thought you were saying something like "hope the radiation harms you"... then I realized you know what you're talking about.
No LoS, no connection. Sounds fun.
You *could* use ethernet, if the goal is for game streaming to replace even desktop PCs (and consoles). But not if you're replacing anything else. And whatever this wonder game is, it couldn't require the kind of latency you need for VR.
 
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Naxil81

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google need a real new step on the future of gaming... exclusive is not the real goal...
probably a massive augmented reality game with 5g and glass. i want fight with my mecha against 2nd player outside of my house.. or see my preferite vg in front of me at Starbucks table... ecc
 

Foxi4

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Streaming has loads of benefits - it eliminates cheats, the need for downloading patches or even installing the game for that matter. It can be a good supplement for native support, I just hope it won't replace it altogether. Imagine buying a game and playing it *immediately* again, with the fame being streamed until the executable and all of the patches fully download - sounds like a banging deal to me.
 
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Pipistrele

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As some suggested above, some sort of MMORPG or live service is the most preferable application for a game streaming - stuff like having a 1000-player wide battle royale game or an enormous seamless Minecraft realm with hundreds and thousands of players at the same time. Cloud gaming is a poor substitute for ordinary gameplay experience at the moment, but such online experiences can actually bring something fresh and irreplaceably experimental to the table.
 
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AlexMCS

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Beyond offering high-end performance to people with low-end local hardware for a similarly low price point, I can't think of anything. Probably the best way to make streaming appealing is to turn it into a form of instant Redbox: $5 month-long rentals of games available the day of release. After all, there's no assurance that any streaming service is going to stick around long enough to warrant a full purchase.

This, pretty much.

Streaming has one inevitable fatal flaw: high latency.
Latency is everywhere, since instant transmission does not exist, even inside our own home console, but at such levels (sub nano-seconds), it is not relevant.

For some games, even a single frame of latency (16ms) is the difference between success and failure.
I don't get that level of low latency even to my city's IX (42ms), not to mention it's the largest in the whole world.
And that is wired fiber connection.

5G won't matter BTW, for those who think it's worth anything.
It will only increase the amount of electromagnetic exposure people are subjected to, due to needing a lot more antennas, most likely also elevating the rates of cancer.

Streaming also has the issue number two: Ownership.
The game will be limited to online-play and subscription. That is terrible.

Currently, there is nothing streaming can do better than playing locally, other than saving you the needed hardware.
If we figure out photon teleportation one day, streaming will have its spot.
 

goldensun87

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Except no one should want to stream games, because if you allow that to be the norm, we will never be able to have games in our personal possession, and all the big tech companies will have us by the balls. Is that what all of you really want?
 

shadow1w2

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Stadia is likely repeating the same lies and issues of Onlive.
The pcs everyobe runs on are likely as cheap as possible or upscaled high res (youd never know)
However the onpy real benefit sides novelty would be an MMO game.
Tower Unite could benefit from ease of use as it needs an SSD and a full redownload each update.
MMORPGs are online anyway and streaming can prevent cheating.
Maybe client side control where the devs could say cause something to happen for one userbut not the others and have it download something unique on the fly like video from other players or an AI serving as a camera for otherwise hard to do shots that would eat up user resources.
Be nice to seebthose monitora ij the background of some game stages show something sides the same screenbwe already see. Raytracing can do it but streaming video of a camera from another computer on lan might work too minus some networking glitches.
I really dont see anyone taking advantage of it though.
Game streaming has been around for a long time and the high cost usually keeps everyone away from innovating with it.
Also its a little gimmicky.
Still MMO games work nicely to make the game easier to play so I see that happening more.
 

Edgarska

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The only thing that would help it make sense would be lower prices. Right now the AAA games cost the same as they do for buying them elsewhere, except on Stadia it only works as long as the service lasts. Considering you're only renting them, even a 50% cost reduction seems too expensive to me.

As for what can it do that a regular game can't do, pretty much just have better graphics for people with weak hardware.
But once you factor in the price of each game into the equation, and the fact that they probably won't go down in price as much as regular games do, the "save money by not buying a better PC and just renting games" argument falls apart, with the added benefit of not even owning those games.
 
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FAST6191

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It won't stop spoilers from people who played it but it will stop every single secret from being datamined first day of release.
I am still curious at the use of the term datamine here. If someone pulls apart a game and spends a long time pondering its guts to find out things then that is generally considered hacking. If someone notes a bunch of statistical data or other user generated data/data that might be generated over the course of play then that is datamining. If you go to industry dataminers are people that collate tables of information and/or attempt to make inferences about existing data sets -- they might direct the generation/collection of new data but rarely get hands dirty here.
I know I have gone there in the past but it is a bizarre appropriation of a term that I have witnessed the rise of this last few years. I wonder if hacker has too many nasty connotations (possibly similar to the fall of warez).

To take it back on topic then people doing the statistical inferences or noting down stats for characters and making game breaking strategies as a result would still be the datamining set.
 
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Foxi4

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I am still curious at the use of the term datamine here. If someone pulls apart a game and spends a long time pondering its guts to find out things then that is generally considered hacking. If someone notes a bunch of statistical data or other user generated data/data that might be generated over the course of play then that is datamining. If you go to industry dataminers are people that collate tables of information and/or attempt to make inferences about existing data sets -- they might direct the generation/collection of new data but rarely get hands dirty here.
I know I have gone there in the past but it is a bizarre appropriation of a term that I have witnessed the rise of this last few years. I wonder if hacker has too many nasty connotations (possibly similar to the fall of warez).

To take it back on topic then people doing the statistical inferences or noting down stats for characters and making game breaking strategies as a result would still be the datamining set.
The whole "data mining" thing only came to prominence recently and it's in large part a matter of marketing - I'm 100% convinced that games like Apex, Fortnite or Overwatch purposefully include snippets of data that aren't visible in-game fully knowing that dedicated fans will "data mine" and build hype for new heroes or weapons. In the past data mining was a noble pursuit, a search for content cut from retail releases, nowadays it feels somewhat jaded and calculated. Perhaps it's just me, but when I see a series of "coincidences" that reveal future DLC I can't help but wonder why those files are even there in the first place. It can't possibly be that hard to push patches that are specifically dedicated for test servers.
 

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My PC (a Pentium 4 from 2005) is not capable in any way of playing Read Dead Redemption 2. But it does have a PCI Express 2.1 video card that can run 1080p videos at 60 frames per second. I'm guessing that I could indeed play RDR2 on Stadia. And I'd much rather do that then spend a fortune on a PC that still wouldn't be able to play it on the highest settings and would simply waste power when I was using it for anything else. Yes, there's a market for Stadia and yes, Stadia will be a dominant force in gaming in the future. And yes, ALL the other platforms/consoles will embrace game streaming.
All of them.
You're definitely the target audience for google. Someone who hasn't spend a dime on computer equipment in the past 15 years. What do you want next, that the Stadia service be free ? I seriously doubt your potato of a pentium 4 can decode VP9 at 1080p60 at all. In fact according to this https://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=120569 you might be able to watch a VP9 encoded video at 720p30 on your pc.
 
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Streaming games would be nice for MMOs. You need an internet for it anyway.

Eh, I'd much rather maintain 3-4 MB/hr bandwidth usage rather than having to stream full 720p/1080p video at all times when playing.
 

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I feel like an attack and defense based game could work. The streamer hides their view and sets up their base / plans ect. and then when its time to start, the viewers can chime in with individual attacks/units on stream to destroy the streamers side. It would be interesting to see a concept like, "the bigger the streamers following, the harder it is to win". This can easily be accomplished by anyone else, but an exclusive game like this could at least help Stadia.
 

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