Google Stadia launches today to mixed reception over input lag

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Google Stadia has finally kicked off its launch today, releasing eight months after its announcement back in March of this year. Google planned to create a "Netflix" of gaming, of sorts, by allowing players to stream games to any device, be it a netbook laptop's browser, a phone mobile app, or a TV's Chromecast, removing the need to own an expensive gaming console. Theoretically, Google would lower the barrier of entry, and allow millions to play the latest and greatest that gaming had to offer, in a simple and casual manner.

Initially, many took issue with the idea of streaming video games across the country, as data caps, input lag, and slow connections would likely stand in the way of consistent performance. A month prior to launch, in October, Google promised that latency would not be a problem with Stadia, as they claimed their servers and technology would be able to easily handle streaming 4K 60FPS video games to its customers, without issue. There was even an official statement of how Google Stadia would have "negative" latency, and would offer a more responsive experience than playing games locally, in the coming future.

But latency is the thing that gets the most attention. And while it's already proven to be more than playable, [Madj Bakar, VP of Engineering] expects further improvements. "Ultimately, we think, in a year or two, we'll have games that are running faster and feel more responsive in the cloud that they do locally, regardless of how powerful the local machine is," he claims. These improvements will come via a term which sounds rather slippery. "Negative latency" is a concept by which Stadia can set up a game with a buffer of predicted latency between the server and player, and then use various methods to undercut it. It can run the game at a super-fast framerate so it can act on player inputs earlier, or it can predict a player's button presses. These tricks can help the game feel more responsive, potentially more so than a console game running locally at 30fps with a wireless controller.

This only served to create more controversy for the service, with many skeptical of such a concept even being possible. Those claims are looking to be even more impossible in the near future, as Stadia is having issues with streaming games upon its first day of release.

For many, this isn't a surprise at all. Digital Foundry, and its parent publication, Eurogamer, took Stadia out for a test drive with the Founder's Pack, describing their time with the service as "incomplete", and "basic". More importantly, though, they measured the exact input lag, comparing Stadia against an Xbox One X.

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While the above chart shows a definite amount of difference in terms of input lag, Eurogamer admitted that the games they played, at 4K resolution and 60 frames per second on a 200mbps wired connection, felt fine, overall, still being considered playable to the masses who likely wouldn't notice any major input lag.

Ultimately, the question is how the game feels in the hand. Nothing I played could be considered 'unplayable' or very laggy - with the possible exception of Tomb Raider in quality mode, but I even got used to that after a while. Remember that different actions may have different latencies, so the table above is far from definitive. At best, it's a test of the one particular motion carried out in the same scenarios on each system. More tests on more titles may put Stadia into better focus, but 45-55ms of lag generally is perfectly acceptable for many experiences and even a fast-paced FPS like Destiny 2 plays out fine on the pad. Obviously though, if you're gaming on a living room display via Chromecast, do make sure game mode is enabled and definitely ensure that you're using a LAN connection.

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Other sites, however, were not as pleased. Forbes' writers reported massive amounts of input lag, making the 22 launch titles impossible to play or control.

Across all test titles I played, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Mortal Kombat 11, Destiny 2, GYLT and Red Dead Redemption 2, I would get periodic stuttering issues with massive resolution and frame drops. Not all the time, but enough to be noticed frequently and disrupt gameplay, which is what everyone feared may happen with this kind of tech. The intensity of the game didn’t matter, it could be the graphically rich Red Dead or the cartoony GYLT. Single player or multiplayer didn’t matter, I could be playing solo as Lara Croft or playing Destiny 2’s Gambit in a pre-arranged match, the issues were the same. You could have 80% of a session be going fine, but then the last 20% would suddenly lurch you into dropping, stuttering territory. And in most games, all it takes is one hiccup to make you pay dearly.

What many have already likely seen, is the above GIF, which comes from The Washington Post. In their trial, Destiny 2 had full seconds of latency, between pressing a button and the intended action occurring.

It's important to consider that this is all still technically an early access soft launch for Stadia--those who are making use of the service now, are playing with technology that still has much room to improve and change, especially before its separate base release, slated for 2020. But while Google can certainly try to reduce input lag, develop better codecs, and innovate their streaming technology as a whole, many have a fear of if Stadia is actually really here to stay, with Google's infamous track record of creating services, investing into them for a handful of years, and then tossing them aside in favor of new projects looming in the back of our minds.
 

Teletron1

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I see non technical facts ,every tech person understands this will suck for slow internet but will cater to faster speeds and will perform well when 5g is a normal option for everyone ,still about 2yrs off but by then Google should work out the kinks ,the only positive thing is they have the resources where other startups dont . Wouldn't surprise me if they go the psnow route and allow for some dl content for slower speed ,but for now Stadia will be the bullied new kid on the block :blink:
 
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Pipistrele

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The biggest issue of all is that you need to buy each game, making it a night and day difference from a Netflix-esque subscription.
The whole array of decisions like this one completely killed any potential the project could have, really. Initial idea could be quite revolutionary. When necessity to buy games was announced, it still sounded like a decent option for developing countries (where internet is usually cheap and uncapped but hardware is stupid hard) Then they announced that stupid $130 bundle as the only option, basically eliminating that "no need for hardware" advantage - at which point, we get a product that appeals to nobody at all.
 

Maximilious

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No thanks Google, I'm fine using Moonlight to stream games from my home PC to DeX mode on my phone, or any other device I set Moonlight up on.
 
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DANTENDO

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To anyone who has only a 1080p TV and was expecting Google to giv you 4k gaming i dont kno what to say ok I laughed a little soz :lol:
 

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I see the "negative latency" thing thrown around a few times. It's not possible, not in the least, and I'm going to take this moment to illustrate exactly how not possible it is.

Here's one method: try and predict the players input with AI. This method is dumb, terrible - honestly, if anyone at google even considered this idea they should be fired. In order for this to be feasible, it'd have to predict at least n frames in advance, where n is latency / frame time. Let's say we have a VERY good scenario where you have a measly 3 frames of latency. It needs to be able to be rolled back if the players inputs don't line up; so it needs to essentially have a "save state" of each previous frame. In order to achieve this, an entire memory dump of the game needs to be generated every. Single. Frame. Let's take a guess that the game uses 6 GB of RAM and 6 GB of VRAM. These aren't unreasonable numbers in the least. Let me tell you; there is no hardware on this planet capable of moving 6-12 GB of data within the time between those frames.

Ok, but what if we assume they somehow managed that impossible feat? Well, what happens if the players inputs suddenly don't line up? It's rollback time baby! And suddenly, the game becomes a stuttering mess. Completely unplayable, constantly jumping between frames as your inputs barely don't line up with the AIs.

What if they also run the game again in tandem with regular input lag to prevent the stuttering? Well, to start, you'd have to start another instance of the game for every single frame of latency between, and keep each one of those a "separate" running instance. Nevermind that this wouldn't work for multiplayer games in the least; even with our purported 3 frames of latency, that means the game has to be running 4 times at once, constantly! Increase this number to even something like 10 frames of latency, and - yeah, I don't care who you are, your servers aren't going to be affordably capable of running 10 instances of a modern triple A game at once. Oh, and did I mention each and every one of these needs to ALSO be streamed to you, so your stadia can switch on the fly when your inputs don't match? Even after all that effort, though, the experience will still be awful as you'll still get stuttering - your input delay will be a stuttering mess of inconsistency, and you couldn't reasonably perform any precise actions like this.

One last thing I'd like to touch on: the idea that they could possibly run an instance of the game for every possible button you could press. No effort here, since it's obvious this is unfeasible, but let's say you have 8 buttons on your controller. That's 2^8th power possible combinations, or 256. Multiply this by itself for every additional frame of latency. At 3 frames of latency, it'd have to be running 16,777,216 different instances of the game. No.
 

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I'm not surprised. Our internet isn't nearly fast enough to stream a video game down a wire with no input lag. If that wasn't enough, the fact that you have to buy these games individually instead of having access to them all with a monthly fee defeats the entire purpose of streaming video games from the internet.

People were afraid that video game streaming would replace physical media and downloadable digital games. It's clear now that we have nothing to worry about for now. Stadia is doomed.
 
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Foxi4

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The only feasible solution to the latency problem is collocation centers in major metropolies across the globe, and that's an expensive venture that has to be continuously upgraded with each gaming generation, Shadow figured this out ages ago which is why their service. It's not just a software issue, bandwidth problems are a physical limitation of the transfer medium. You're never really connecting directly to the server via fiberoptic, and the more nodes you hit along the way the longer the response time. It's not something Google will be able to patch with a band-aid - they need to drop big money on the problem, and they'll quickly realise just how razor thin their margin really is once they do.

I see non technical facts ,every tech person understands this will suck for slow internet but will cater to faster speeds and will perform well when 5g is a normal option for everyone ,still about 2yrs off but by then Google should work out the kinks ,the only positive thing is they have the resources where other startups dont . Wouldn't surprise me if they go the psnow route and allow for some dl content for slower speed ,but for now Stadia will be the bullied new kid on the block :blink:
The service was tested on a 1 Gigabit connection and it still had latency problems - it's not an issue of "slow Internet", once the bandwidth is satisfied, latency becomes entirely an issue of response time between your computer and the collocation center, and all the nodes you hit along the way. It's not working well because of the lacking on-the-ground infrastructure, not because of the bandwidth.
 
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Justinde75

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Imagine my shock

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

The only thing this will be useful for are things like tactics games and turn based rpgs. But those are sadly a dying breed nowadays. Nobody wants to play the new hip Call of Duty or Battlefield with 1-2 seconds of input lag
 

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Google usually does one of four things:

1) get into a field that others are doing with some success.
-If they fail, but others are making money, buy out the successful company and just use their model. (youtube, fitbit, etc)
-If they succeed it become ubuiqitious and everyone uses it (gmail, android, google docs, google search engine)

2) get into a field that others are doing with no success. and then proceed to fail at it as well and kill it. Exceptions being what, google home?

3) Fun little project, imaginative, which everyone loves, but they kill because it's not profitable enough quickly enough

4) establish a new or nearly-new field and be successful in their venture. This is by far the rarest one. Can't really think of one.

I'm guessing this'll probably fall under section 2. The "games as a service" is annoying, especially since this is both "games as a service" and "games as a product" as far as cost go, with only "games as a service" being what you get.
 
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Sicklyboy

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I'd say "color me surprised" except there's two problems.

1) I'm colorblind
2) I'm not surprised

Definitely interested to see if and how they continue to refine the service. In any case, it's just not for me. Only content subscription service I use is Google Play Music; no Netflix, Hulu, Game Pass, etc. I don't really think that Xbox Live and PS+ count for that, and even at that I don't stay subscribed to those all the time either. I prefer to have my games on a disk or cartridge I can hold in my hands.
 

James_

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I'd say "color me surprised" except there's two problems.

1) I'm colorblind
2) I'm not surprised
And there isn't a color called 'surprised' either.
 

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Unless Google secretly laid out its own internet backbone across the United States, of course it was going to suck. Round-trip latency would be beyond noticeable. Our decades-old hacked-together internet infrastructure in the US is such shit, it needs a complete overhaul, which is not even slightly likely to happen thanks to conservative policies constantly defending and empowering the internet monopolies and oligopolies since pretty much its inception (looking at you FCC).
 

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I've been talking about this ever since the announcement of Stadia.

Data caps? 4k? Games need to be purchased? Monthly fees? None of these matter.

The real and only issue with streaming is input lag. Try out any other streaming service available right now. Not a single one, has unnoticeable input lag.

Sure, all of them are playable. But after 35 minutes of gameplay, you feel sick to your stomach, just due to the horrific lag between your actions, and what happens on the screen. It's a similar feeling to being seasick or carsick.

And I'm not even counting competitive games. Any skill based, competitive game is literally unplayable. You'll be decimated by other opponents who don't have input lag like you do.

A higher bandwidth will help you stream 4k but it will NOT reduce input lag. Input lag is related to ping and latency. You can increase your bandwidth to 5 Terabytes per second. If your distance to the servers is anything more than a few miles, you'll still have horrible input lag. Because the amount of time for you to get a response from the server, is still the same.

The ONLY way to fix this, is by using higher quality cabling and redo the entire server technology and infrastructure, to allow for faster data transfer. Possibly with fiber optic cabling. Now imagine the hundreds of millions this costs..

As it stands, streaming games is absolutely useless.

I even made a Temper Tantrums comic strip about this exact issue:

https://gbatemp.net/threads/temper-tantrums-38-stadia.537588/
 
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