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UK Gambling Commission declares that lootboxes currently can't be considered gambling

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One of the biggest on-going gaming controversies of the tail-end of the decade is, without a doubt, the existence of lootboxes. They've been banned in multiple European countries, and both the United States and United Kingdom have current legal investigations as to the legality and morality of lootboxes being implemented in video games. Since November of last year, the UK Gambling Commission has been looking into lootboxes, with a recent hearing regarding the topic taking place on July 22nd. During that hearing, the Gambling Commission stated that while they have "significant concerns" about children playing games that feature lootboxes as a major gameplay component, they can't consider lootboxes as gambling, in their current form.

UK Gambling Commission chief exec said:
There are other examples of things that look and feel like gambling that legislation tells you are not - [such as] some prize competitions but because they have free play or free entry they are not gambling... but they are a lot like a lottery,

The reasoning behind this is that in order to be classified as gambling, the resulting prizes gotten from within lootboxes must either be money itself, or have an inherent monetary value. In some games, accounts that have lootbox-gained items or skins can be bought and sold, and in other cases, players can pay real money to be traded valued items, however, due to these "black market" sites not being sanctioned or officially endorsed by the gaming companies themselves, publishers cannot be held liable.

While the UK appears to be conflicted on how to proceed when it comes to lootbox legality, the Netherlands and Berlin have both determined that they classify as gambling, according to their own laws. On the other hand, companies that actively profit from lootboxes, like EA, have said that lootboxes are mere surprise mechanics, and are harmless to consumers.

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Foxi4

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yep I'm sure something could/should be done to limit the predatory nature of some developers, but it wouldn't be to class it as gambling, I know people dont like the slippery slope argument but loot boxes are essentially the same deal as things like pokemon cards or football stickers, both of which are primarily purchased by kids guess we should hurry and ban them too or make you need an adult to go in the shop and buy them for you, as long as they have systems in place to limit spending and inform parents as to the gambling-esque nature with some marking similar to existing ERSB markings I dont see them as something on par with casinos or horse race betting.

honestly it's a part of the world, and if you protect people from ever seeing something or understanding the risks involved you create a class of adults who are naive and havent experienced the risk of gambling when it's only £3 on the line and not next months rent
I fail to see the distinction between a blind bag and a loot box, or as you mention, a pack of TCG cards. In fact, loot boxes are a little bit more lenient since they refund duplicates - in real life you just end up with a crappy deck. The movement to restrict or ban the sale of loot boxes isn't motivated by pure intentions, it's motivated by greed - gamers want more for less, preferably for free.
 

Kioku

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I fail to see the distinction between a blind bag and a loot box, or as you mention, a pack of TCG cards. In fact, loot boxes are a little bit more lenient since they refund duplicates - in real life you just end up with a crappy deck. The movement to restrict or ban the sale of loot boxes isn't motivated by pure intentions, it's motivated by greed - gamers want more for less, preferably for free.

In both instances there's rare items that are heavily marketable and can fetch a pretty penny. So, no, there's no real difference short of physical vs digital. (tangible vs non)...
 
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Ea has won a fight, but the war is still going on.
Dunno if for you uk guys, avoiding them crap shitboxes would be as easy as just changing your country from one that has banned them or what. I mean ingame/console, but if you wanna go live somewhere else, feel free to go, lol.

And would say I agree: Lootboxes are worthless. They shouldn't even exists in the first place. HA.
And for you guys still going "it's just cosmetic":

https://www.polygon.com/2019/5/7/18534431/fortnite-rare-default-skins-bullying-harassment
 

notimp

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That reasoning is dumb as can be.

In the real economy we try to get people in fake economies, so they dont want 'goods' anymore, but rather 'softwareupdates', 'features', and 'virtual goods'.

And as soon as they are hooked on those - we declare, that they cant be the carrot for gambling, because they have no real money value.

Next time - just declare 'anything thats not a house' unfit for being the push factor for gambling, and then just declare, that no millennial can be cambling - because statistically, they will never be able to afford houses.

Now thats some A level logic at work here.

Societies systems are broken again. Courts are too stupid to see it.

Tadaa.
 
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Foxi4

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In both instances there's rare items that are heavily marketable and can fetch a pretty penny. So, no, there's no real difference short of physical vs digital. (tangible vs non)...
There's a sucker born every minute, but I don't know if the secondary market should even enter the equation here since in the case of loot it's usually discouraged, with a few notable exceptions.
 

CallmeBerto

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Holy crap the UK actually did something right.

I find it sad that people need the government to protect them from their own stupidity.

Oh and no this isn't about the children that is just an convenient excuse people used to emotionally manipulate you into do/vote for something. Little Timmy with his 3 usd are not the main consumer. It's the adults who lack self control, and no I don't feel sorry for them nor should my right to spend money how I wish be affected based on the average person.

Stop asking the government, god or whoever to take care of you. Do it your damn self.
 

julianuf

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Holy crap the UK actually did something right.

I find it sad that people need the government to protect them from their own stupidity.

Oh and no this isn't about the children that is just an convenient excuse people used to emotionally manipulate you into do/vote for something. Little Timmy with his 3 usd are not the main consumer. It's the adults who lack self control, and no I don't feel sorry for them nor should my right to spend money how I wish be affected based on the average person.

Stop asking the government, god or whoever to take care of you. Do it your damn self.

I'm happy for you.
 

SlasherGamer21

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Do you mean in the form of advertisements?

If so, yeah I've seen them as well and I just don't buy them, simple.

Nah some games have lootboxes that just pop up at random times such as on level up's. They're free but they are still lootboxes and they lure people into spending shitload's of money on lootboxes.
 

CallmeBerto

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Nah some games have lootboxes that just pop up at random times such as on level up's. They're free but they are still lootboxes and they lure people into spending shitload's of money on lootboxes.

I'm sure they are in modern AAA games but I mostly see them in those free to play games. Ech, I don't really see it as an issue unless they put a gun to your head and make you buy them.
 

samcambolt270

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the government shouldn't have to protect people from their own stupidity.
They are not protecting people from their own stupidity, they intend to protect people from being preyed on. Lootboxes are not just a dumb thing that people can ignore if they don't want them. The games they are in are designed to prey on compulsive and addictive gamblers, the people who do not have the ability to say no. There are people out there who have literally wasted life savings on them. And it isn't correct to say "well, they wanted to do it" as there are many many compulsive gamblers out there who have specifically said "please stop putting this in these games. I play games to get away from the addiction, not be pulled back in." Most loot boxes are intentionally predatory and incredibly unethical in design, and they need to be restricted.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I don't really see it as an issue unless they put a gun to your head and make you buy them.
The problem is that you're assuming they make money by people like you or me "choosing" to buy them. That's unfortunately not the case. The problem is that they are intentionally designed to get whales. Go watch the talk Torulf Jernström made called "let's go whaling" and you'll realize how absolutely heinous lootboxes are. They are not designed to make you or me spend a buck. If they were, I wouldn't have a problem with them.
 
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Dimensional

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Apparently legal definitions only pick which official definition to use from. Not all Official definitions state you have to get something of monetary value back. But I guess the take away is Business Law beats out any ethical and moral code. Lie, cheat, steal, or worse. If Business law doesn't say it's illegal, just do it.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gamble
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/gambling
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/gambling
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/gambling
https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/gambling
 

samcambolt270

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Apparently legal definitions only pick which official definition to use from.
Those are colloquial definitions. They are more specifically referring to their internal legally defined version. Countries don't use dictionaries when making legal decisions, they use the long rambly legalese ones they have stashed away.
 
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osaka35

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Blindbags are generally self-contained, so not quite the same (maybe cosmetic-only loot crates?). Expansion packs with random cards are far closer as they influence the game being played. So the question is, are expansion packs different from gambling, and are there any meaningful differences between expansion packs and loot boxes?

Expansion packs give you the same amount of common, rare, and uncommon cards every deck, except when you get an ultra rare. I know pokemon does the ultra-rare thing, and that bit puts it closer to loot-box territory. Every card in each card pack has equal rarity with the same rarity level cards. Looking for a specific card? You're going to be back buying as many as you can. But you generally always get the same rarity of cards. and balancing of rules can shift worth in cards already purchased. Most everything is useful in some way...depending on the card game.

It varies from game to game, but my experience with loot crates is you are not guaranteed any kind of rarity. You have a certain percentage of chance of getting common, uncommon, rare, ultra-rare, legendary, etc, with every open, but no guarantee of any of them with each crate. And if you get a duplicate...well now you just have two of them or some token amount of in-game cash or something (some games are nicer than others). And most things aren't terribly

Personally, game loot crates feel a loooot closer to gambling than blindbags or even card expansion packs. But I think how it's implemented is the important part. Not all loot crates use the same mechanic. There's a need for a proper discussion on why we care and at what point it becomes predatory. The fact the UK decided "no money, no gambling" shows their cowardice in trying to define this predation.
 
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