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UK Gambling Commission declares that lootboxes currently can't be considered gambling

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One of the biggest on-going gaming controversies of the tail-end of the decade is, without a doubt, the existence of lootboxes. They've been banned in multiple European countries, and both the United States and United Kingdom have current legal investigations as to the legality and morality of lootboxes being implemented in video games. Since November of last year, the UK Gambling Commission has been looking into lootboxes, with a recent hearing regarding the topic taking place on July 22nd. During that hearing, the Gambling Commission stated that while they have "significant concerns" about children playing games that feature lootboxes as a major gameplay component, they can't consider lootboxes as gambling, in their current form.

UK Gambling Commission chief exec said:
There are other examples of things that look and feel like gambling that legislation tells you are not - [such as] some prize competitions but because they have free play or free entry they are not gambling... but they are a lot like a lottery,

The reasoning behind this is that in order to be classified as gambling, the resulting prizes gotten from within lootboxes must either be money itself, or have an inherent monetary value. In some games, accounts that have lootbox-gained items or skins can be bought and sold, and in other cases, players can pay real money to be traded valued items, however, due to these "black market" sites not being sanctioned or officially endorsed by the gaming companies themselves, publishers cannot be held liable.

While the UK appears to be conflicted on how to proceed when it comes to lootbox legality, the Netherlands and Berlin have both determined that they classify as gambling, according to their own laws. On the other hand, companies that actively profit from lootboxes, like EA, have said that lootboxes are mere surprise mechanics, and are harmless to consumers.

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Pipistrele

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I'll never understand such a pointless need to get involved with something that matters so little.

If you don't like loot boxes, don't buy 'em. Don't support games even if that's your view. Consumers hold all the power. Loot boxes exist because they sell. It's that simple.

Basically anything can become an addiction and cause overspending.
The problem is that AAA companies not only actively encourage said addiction and overspending, but also prey on people with gambling addictions, as well as directly advertise gambling to children. Every dirty trick in the book is used: from inventing fancy terms for lulling the vigilance ("recurring consumer spending", "surprise mechanics", etc. ), to hiring psychologists specifically for balancing their games around maximizing the addiction factor. At this point, it's predatory nearly on the level of tobacco companies, and goes above and beyond the "just don't buy it" line.
 

julianuf

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The problem is that AAA companies not only actively encourage said addiction and overspending, but also prey on people with gambling addictions, as well as directly advertise gambling to children. Every dirty trick in the book is used: from inventing fancy terms for lulling the vigilance ("recurring consumer spending", "surprise mechanics", etc. ), to hiring psychologists specifically for balancing their games around maximizing the addiction factor. At this point, it's predatory nearly on the level of tobacco companies, and goes above and beyond the "just don't buy it" line.
It all comes down to not exploiting people, and social safety nets. Education doesn't prevent everything, and people in exploitable positions are in no place to make sound judgements. Consumer protections against things like addictive drugs, monopolies, false advertising, and many others are there to prevent undue harm against the people. Casino regulation is very much the same, with many nations around the world demanding minimum odds, minimum payout percentage, disclosing odds for games, and more, all to educate the player and protect them for as long as possible.

This is fundamentally a consumer protection issue. This is not a free market issue. This is not an issue where you vote with your wallet. This is an issue about people.

You both said exactly what I wanted to say without me having to spend a few minutes typing it out on my phone. Thank you so much. <3
 

samcambolt270

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America is the last to make fun of anything to be honest.
Also, UK isn't europe.
Is texas america?
it's a part of europe. I'm overall saying europe is crazy. If texas made a stupid law, yes I would say "america" is crazy, as it's america that lets them be crazy.
 

osaka35

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America is the last to make fun of anything to be honest.
Also, UK isn't europe.
Is texas america?
Some Texans think so :P but yeah, the rest of Europe is giving the UK the stink eye, if I am current enough. Well a large chunk of Britain, not so much the UK, but close enough.

US is certainly in a race to the bottom. I miss the days science was revered and education was considered a boon rather than an inconvenient voting block.
 

KingVamp

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So basically they aren't doing anything based on a technicality.

If loot boxes can be regulated to only cosmetics that you can still get in game, I would be fine with such a compromise.
 

DBlaze

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it's a part of europe. I'm overall saying europe is crazy. If texas made a stupid law, yes I would say "america" is crazy, as it's america that lets them be crazy.
Ah yes, because it's (at this time still) part of europe, entirety of europe must be crazy, nice logic. By that logic america must be batshit insane with the clown that's in the office currently.
In Europe, countries at least still have some say in their own countries, although EU politicians are trying to turn it into a EU controlled thing, which no one likes but a lot of politicians seem to want to shove down everyone's throat.

Regardless on the topic of lootboxes, they should either be banned or handled better. I think that's also a reason why <insert name here>pass is starting to become more and more a thing.
 

HRudyPlayZ

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They should just do like Belgium and ban all the in-app-purchases, they just reduce the quality of games considerably...

This would sort out the loot boxes, virtual currency etc... problems.
 
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Taleweaver

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The reasoning behind this is that in order to be classified as gambling, the resulting prizes gotten from within lootboxes must either be money itself, or have an inherent monetary value. In some games, accounts that have lootbox-gained items or skins can be bought and sold, and in other cases, players can pay real money to be traded valued items, however, due to these "black market" sites not being sanctioned or officially endorsed by the gaming companies themselves, publishers cannot be held liable.
What kind of bullshit argument is that? Of course there is 'inherent monetary value': YOU PAY FOR THE DAMN THINGS.

If they're really abiding by the response of "well, yeah, but it's the surprise element you pay for", then by that same logic it's perfectly legal for everyone to crack their games to have all the lootbox content available to them. Since they apparently believe "there is no inherent monetary value", they cannot press any charges against anyone for doing it. :rolleyes:



it's a part of europe. I'm overall saying europe is crazy.
Erm...as stated in the OP: most of the rest of Europe don't follow that reasoning. I'm not saying that e.g. Belgium is a sane country, but when it comes to lootboxes, we follow the idea that it's just gambling.
 

Foxi4

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I really hope that was sarcasm.
It wasn't. Lootboxes do not satisfy the definition of gambling, they're not even close. Game theory of gambling is pretty simple - you need to have a bet/wager, winning conditions and losing conditions. Lootboxes lack any kind of stakes - you can't "lose at lootboxes", you always get a random reward, or its equivalent in in-game currency in the event of duplicates. Not every random outcome game can be defined as gambling, it's that simple. I've explored it in other threads about this issue, there's no point in me restating all the arguments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling
 

gamesquest1

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It wasn't. Lootboxes do not satisfy the definition of gambling, they're not even close. Game theory of gambling is pretty simple - you need to have a bet/wager, winning conditions and. losing conditions. Lootboxes lack any kind of stakes - you can't lose at Lootboxes, you always get a random reward, or its equivalent in in-game currency in the event of duplicates. Not every random outcome game can be defined as gambling, it's that simple. I've explored it in other threads about this issue, there's no point in me restating all the arguments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling
yep I'm sure something could/should be done to limit the predatory nature of some developers, but it wouldn't be to class it as gambling, I know people dont like the slippery slope argument but loot boxes are essentially the same deal as things like pokemon cards or football stickers, both of which are primarily purchased by kids guess we should hurry and ban them too or make you need an adult to go in the shop and buy them for you, as long as they have systems in place to limit spending and inform parents as to the gambling-esque nature with some marking similar to existing ERSB markings I dont see them as something on par with casinos or horse race betting.

honestly it's a part of the world, and if you protect people from ever seeing something or understanding the risks involved you create a class of adults who are naive and havent experienced the risk of gambling when it's only £3 on the line and not next months rent
 
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