Hacking Question Why Update Hekate?

spammy · Jul 23, 2019

Although I regularly check here for scene status and update my Kosmos for the latest atmosphere on the SD and use choi for latest firmware etc, I don't think I've ever updated the Hekate payload that I send to get things started. Now that I see it has a fancy UI and support for emummc features I thought I'd look into it. So my questions:

I inject Hekate 4.6, and am able to do all I want with 8.0.1. I see things like sept loading etc. What exactly have I missed out on, and why do later versions of Hekate claim things like "full support" for 8.0.1 etc, if 4.6 appears to work for everything anyway?
If I wanted to use the latest Hekate, is it just a matter of injecting the new payload or do I have to change something on my SD (assuming Kosmos wouldn't have done that for me)? I read something on the 4.9.1 changelog: "Warning: Because of the new versioning changes, please delete sept/payload.bin, IF it's older than 4.9.1"
Academic question: has anyone tried making an equivalent "shim" Hekate that loads the latest code off of the SD card? That way the payload on the host PC/Android wouldn't need much maintenance for new releases as long as the SD card is up to date. Or will someone tell me that this exactly what already happens?

Hayato213 · Jul 23, 2019

Newer build of Hekate support newer build of CFW.

spammy · Jul 23, 2019

But like I said the 4.6 I've been injecting lets me boot the latest CFW (updated by Kosmos). So unless my Hekate is also being updated isn't 4.6 enough?

Hayato213 · Jul 23, 2019

spammy said:
But like I said the 4.6 I've been injecting lets me boot the latest CFW (updated by Kosmos). So unless my Hekate is also being updated isn't 4.6 enough?

Really depends on sysnand firmware.

Lacius · Jul 23, 2019

New versions of Hekate are usually required for new Switch system updates.

spammy · Jul 23, 2019

Okay. This is what my Switch currently reports: 8.0.0 (AMS 0.8.9). This was achieved using Hekate 4.6. Does that mean some AMS 0.8.9 features are disabled?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

So to answer my own question, even though I inject 4.6, it's actually 4.10.1 that gets loaded (presumably the last version that Kosmos updated). I guess that implies that the latest IS being loaded from the SD card somehow, regardless of what you inject.

Thanks for the replies.

RHOPKINS13 · Jul 23, 2019

I inject Hekate 4.6, and am able to do all I want with 8.0.1. I see things like sept loading etc. What exactly have I missed out on, and why do later versions of Hekate claim things like "full support" for 8.0.1 etc, if 4.6 appears to work for everything anyway?
You've missed out on a few interesting functions, like the Nyx GUI and emuMMC support. Along with a few fixes, really you should just look on Hekate's release page for everything you're missing. As long as you're able to boot what you need though, you might not find it worth the effort to upgrade.
If I wanted to use the latest Hekate, is it just a matter of injecting the new payload or do I have to change something on my SD (assuming Kosmos wouldn't have done that for me)? I read something on the 4.9.1 changelog: "Warning: Because of the new versioning changes, please delete sept/payload.bin, IF it's older than 4.9.1"
You're probably fine just injecting the latest payload. If anything doesn't work, you can always go back to your old version.
Academic question: has anyone tried making an equivalent "shim" Hekate that loads the latest code off of the SD card? That way the payload on the host PC/Android wouldn't need much maintenance for new releases as long as the SD card is up to date. Or will someone tell me that this exactly what already happens?
Check out ArgonNX.

spammy · Jul 23, 2019

Just for completion, I updated via Kosmos and now boot to Hekate 5.0.1, even though I inject 4.6. So:

I inject Hekate 4.6, and am able to do all I want with 8.0.1. I see things like sept loading etc. What exactly have I missed out on, and why do later versions of Hekate claim things like "full support" for 8.0.1 etc, if 4.6 appears to work for everything anyway?

Turns out it doesn't - I have been inadvertently using the latest Hekate even though I didn't update the payload.

If I wanted to use the latest Hekate, is it just a matter of injecting the new payload or do I have to change something on my SD (assuming Kosmos wouldn't have done that for me)? I read something on the 4.9.1 changelog: "Warning: Because of the new versioning changes, please delete sept/payload.bin, IF it's older than 4.9.1"

I didn't have to do anything, but I'm assuming the Kosmos updater fixed this for me.

Academic question: has anyone tried making an equivalent "shim" Hekate that loads the latest code off of the SD card? That way the payload on the host PC/Android wouldn't need much maintenance for new releases as long as the SD card is up to date. Or will someone tell me that this exactly what already happens?

It turns out that this is exactly what happens. The payload you inject via the host doesn't seem to matter as long as your SD card is up to date.

NoNAND · Jul 23, 2019

I see, you like to stick to the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it" strategy of doing things.
Newer versions of Hekate typically fix some bugs found in previous releases which may include but not limited to: backup/restore bugs, UI and UX bugs and other things that might render the hekate bootloader unstable.
Furthermore new versions of hekate might bring (but not necessarily) new features and improve and/or simplify currently existing features by making them more user-friedly.
As @Lacius above stated, some switch firmwares might require a newer addition of hekate for cfw to be run. We never know what Nintendo might change with how fuses are burned in the future, thus it may require a newer version of hekate to prevent them from getting burned.
Also, when you use an old version of hekate and happen to stumble into any problems, people may not take your problem that seriously sometimes.
Nope, don't use Kosmos updater but rather manually get the newest releases over at SDSetup. Kosmos updater is known for causing data corruption on SD cards regardless of filesystem (can confirm this as it happened on me so many times)
With all that said though, you shouldn't rush headlong into something unless it is proven safe by the community beforehand. Always look for the outcome and the feedback given my the members here before updating your cfws/tools/utilities etc.

spammy · Jul 23, 2019

It seems that my op has been misunderstood. I wasn't asking for reasons not to update, but asking why I apparently hadn't needed to so far.

The answer to this was that I had actually been updating Hetake without realising it. What you inject as a payload isn't what gets eventually loaded, so you don't need to inject the latest payload if you have it already on your SD.

Which is why I'm able to still use 4.6 to boot my Switch into 5.0.1. It's pretty neat that it works that way, but I guess it makes sense for those who use dongles where you can't easily update the payload to the latest and greatest.

NoNAND · Jul 24, 2019

Ah, my bad on that then.
Yes indeed it works that way sometimes. As I recall I had the 4.10.1 payload on my SD card whereas on my PC I forgot to extract the latest hekate.bin file, and kept pushing the v4.8 payload. Odly enough instead of what I was injection my switch loaded the hekate 4.10.1 that was present on my switch's SD card.

Krude · Jul 24, 2019

Here's a question for you:

Why not?

designgears · Jul 24, 2019

If you're using the latest kosmos and injecting an older hekate via rcm it will use the newer hekate in the bootloader folder called update.bin. While you are using an old payload for rcm it doesn't get used.

spammy · Jul 24, 2019

Perfect. Just the information I was looking for.

Hacking Question Why Update Hekate?

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