A law firm has begun an investigation for a class action lawsuit on Nintendo over Joy-Con drift

new-joy-con-1563458834681.jpg

Joy-Con connectivity issues have plagued Nintendo Switch owners since the launch of the console, more than two years ago. Recently, Joy-Con drift has become a topic of interest once more, due to fans vocally expressing their disappointment. With no real solution in sight, it appears that a law firm is stepping in to see if they can make things happen. The law firm, called Chimicles Schwartz Kriner & Donaldson-Smith LLP, is a three-decade old institution that focuses on class action lawsuits. According to CSK&D, they have begun an investigation into a possible class-action lawsuit against Nintendo for selling faulty Joy-Cons that have phantom input and interfere with gaming.

You can fill out the form in the link below to offer your personal experiences with your Joy-Cons to help give the firm more information to work with. If enough reports come in, then CSK&D will move forward with their lawsuit. Whether this will result in a solution or even make it to court is unclear, but the threat of legal action could perhaps spur Nintendo into coming up with a fix or revision for future Joy-con releases.

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Foxi4

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no idea what you mean with r&d, it's not like these sticks are developed or even manufactured by nintendo.
I'm not sure about that, they seem pretty custom. I'd have to look into it, but that particular assembly looks made to order, and then relentlessly copied. I'd have to check if they patented it to be sure.
 

guily6669

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preety sure hori said it was like 45 or 50$ lol

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my original 3ds and new 3ds have thousands of hours and my circle pads are all fine lol, i have 999 hours on each pokemon game so you can see how much i used those cricle pads because i dont use dpads :P
The Daemon X Machine Joy-Con controllers at least will probably be beyond expensive...
The Daemon X Machine Joy-Con launches in Japan this September, with an asking price of roughly $136.

Source from here: https://www.vg247.com/2019/06/14/hori-releasing-chunky-daemon-x-machina-tie-joy-cons/

At that price, no thank you :(...

The Ipega are like around 20€ on ebay...
 

The Real Jdbye

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I can assure you that it's also a problem on Microsoft controllers judging by the stack of faulty controllers I fixed recently, including a brand-new Xbox One Elite Model 2 white controller. It's an issue endemic to all conventional potentiometers, although admittedly, Joycons are particularly susceptible to it. ;)
I've never heard of that, but it makes sense that they would wear out eventually, though I've not experienced anything but N64 controllers wearing out.
Maybe the N64 controllers weren't so bad after all. They wore out quickly, but at least the movement of the parts inside were directly tied to the movement of the axes, so you would never have phantom input.

The Joycons use wipers the just like the 3DS circlepad, which isn't a problem on its own. Now add in the button that requires pressing the analog stick inward, unlike the 3DS, and now the wipers have tension placed on them laterally and longitudinally, which bends the prongs.

With the stretched out prongs reaching farther across the PCB traces, the prongs are now outside of the 'deadzone' set by Nintendo and is interpreted as user input instead of a new 'at rest' position.
Come to think of it, that explanation doesn't explain why the stick positions drift, as in, they move over time but reset to the middle once you move the stick. I still don't quite understand why that occurs.
no idea what you mean with r&d, it's not like these sticks are developed or even manufactured by nintendo.
Actually, most analog sticks used on consoles are custom designed. They all have their own feel, which is unique to that console, and have to be made for certain dimensions to fit within handhelds and similar. Sure, you can get 3rd party ones with a similar feel, but those are clones.
 
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shadow1w2

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This is part of why Ive been holding out for a switch pro but I am considering the next revision but sadly those might be these bad joycpns. Class action lawsuit or no Id still rather get a regular switch wothout the joycons (or dock) to save money.

Though I wonder if this lawsuit will win.
Nintendo never promised the controllers to last beyond the warrenty or even work at all.
You know the usual excuses.
Though I hope the message gets to Ninty at least in time for the revised switch and new color joycons to get better stick parts.
 

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I've never heard of that, but it makes sense that they would wear out eventually, though I've not experienced anything but N64 controllers wearing out.
Maybe the N64 controllers weren't so bad after all. They wore out quickly, but at least the movement of the parts inside were directly tied to the movement of the axes, so you would never have phantom input.


Come to think of it, that explanation doesn't explain why the stick positions drift, as in, they move over time but reset to the middle once you move the stick. I still don't quite understand why that occurs.

Actually, most analog sticks used on consoles are custom designed. They all have their own feel, which is unique to that console, and have to be made for certain dimensions to fit within handhelds and similar. Sure, you can get 3rd party ones with a similar feel, but those are clones.
I think you don't hear about it as much on the Xbox One because, in my experience, Microsoft has an excellent returns policy for controllers, at least in the UK. Googling "Xbox One Drift" gives you ample results, that tells me that Microsoft's controllers aren't holy cows, which I already knew anyway from taking them apart. There's a much bigger problem with Xbox One controllers, one that affects most of the faulty ones I've seen, and that's the headphone jack on the new models - it's not soldered to the board, it's a pressure fit sandwiched between two PCB's. Even a mild amount of pressure can dislodge it completely, ruin the pins and make you lose connection, usually permanently until you replace it altogether. I fixed one of them in the past and, try as I may, I couldn't get any contact at all, no matter how I shaped the pins, so in the end I just ripped off the carbon contacts and soldered it directly to the board - fixed instantly. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen because the jack is clearly engineered to fail, it experiences stress each time you take your headset in and out, it should be far more robust.

As to why the sticks center after you move them, it's probably the spring preload moving the wiper to a new spot on the trace that doesn't have a gap in it, or just sudden movement pressing the oxidised wiper harder, causing it to briefly register a new reading. Some people try to clean both with contact cleaner and hope for the best, but the success rate of that is low - it's far less hassle to just install a new stick. Ultimately the way these things work is by utilising the resistance between Point A and Point B - electrons always follow the path of least resistance. If you have gaps in the trace, oxidised or bent contacts or simply dirt in the potentiometer, that path changes, leading to a change in resistance, which in turn gives you an erroneous reading.

Regarding the "custom" nature of the sticks, nah, most of them are bog standard parts. There's nothing special about them, the manufacturer just picks them based on their properties, like the spring tension, or just the availability. They're not particularly unique, see below:
xbox-one-elite-controller-1698-analog-pcb-board.jpg
Xbox One Elite board
DualShock_4_assembly.png
DualShock 4 board
joystick_2_l.jpg
Switch Pro Controller board

It's the same sticks, probably from the same factory, they probably sit side by side on the conveyor belt. Occasionally they change the colours on the assembly, I can only assume that the factories colour-code them for some reason, but the side pots are basically the same. In fact, they're interchangeable. They wouldn't go through the trouble of redesigning a part that's already on the market unless they wanted to add features to it - that's expensive! :P
 

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Quite the opposite, kiddo.

Just because Nintendo's analog sticks have been quite decent since after the N64 doesn't mean that they get a free pass just because of previous console runs.

The fact that they fucked up this badly with the Switch and still haven't addressed the situation is a huge redflag. I don't suport their each and every move like other sheep followers, because boy do they fuck up, a lot more recently.

The analog sticks work like it should...
For a couple months. After that, good luck playing anything that requires precision with it. If that doesn't mean cheap construction and poor design of the sticks, I don't know what will.

I was born with a NES at home, raised with a GB. Since the Wii, I haven't been as invested in Nintendo. During the Wii U, I have said many times that Nintendo was dying. Said it a lot. However, even though there are almost no console exclusive good games for me on it and having been strongly against even getting the console, sales and my experience say it's not bad. I guessed it would be a lot worse.

For a portable machine, an advanced tablet, it's overall reliable. Like always, it can take some abuse.
Batteries are good, controllers do take some getting used to and still confuse me every time I think of how anyone would play with just one of them but they're okay too as long is it's within a meters range of the console.

The only problem I have is 1 of the joy cons sometimes sliding off, probably because it wasn't done as it should by someone. After a year, joystick is still doing good.

So, the problems I do have with Nintendo are more their choices regarding games. Like, why the fuck add cloud, isabella or bayonetta to smash in stead of Mega Man X or Zero, Majora, maskable young Link or since they don't care about size Hollow Knight? Why add "voice acting" to a zelda game and pick such emotionless, dull, horrible voices? Why ruin a good formula, that has been working for well over 25 years? Why bring out a switch lite, just like with GBA and DS?

Anyway, yes. The controllers do feel cheap. And they cost a lot. Just like every other controller on the market right now. But I don't have a problem so far. Haven't heard anyone who does either. Nintendo will probably respond, next year. And lets be honest, Nintendo controllers and good aiming? Those never really went together that well without auto lock.
 
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FAST6191

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it experiences stress each time you take your headset in and out, it should be far more robust.

If they start going after people for poor mechanical design of things like that then the electronics industry will probably implode... I have lost track of how many times poorly thought out laptop charger ports, USB ports, headphone jacks and more have caused problems in things. Ask any mechanically inclined person if they think a bit of lead free solder onto a thin layer of copper which in turn is bonded with epoxy to fibreglass weave, and then subjecting that to maybe 5:1 in your disadvantage lever loads.
On the other hand you reminded me earlier of the glory that is microswitches so I don't think we are talking right now.

That said I am curious now if I could make a retrofit kit for this to use a more robust positional sensor instead. Hopefully it is a voltage out rather than resistance or relative resistance measured as programmable selectable loads are not fun to play with.

On a different note for E3 one year before the shows (think it was the same year they got all excited about "asymmetric gaming" that never came) Microsoft had a little filler piece on the testing their controllers go through during R&D and such. I have never been able to find it since but the machines they had and the lengths they went to were quite impressive.
I should also say on 360 dpads if you (you being the reader of this comment) ever get a chance to test the rotatable dpad that came out later in the 360 lifetime then do so.

Edit
Even though I hate Joy-Con Drifting, it shouldn't be taken THIS FAR.
So company makes a defective product, one with considerable numbers of failures, making its product unworkable upon failure and drags its feet about fixing it, denying it is an issue on their end and so forth. That is pretty much the exact scenario class action suits are designed for.
 
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chrisrlink

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Even though I hate Joy-Con Drifting, it shouldn't be taken THIS FAR.
sure it is cause thats how big corporations work, you don't give a shit about the consumer until your sued just like your employees thats what it took for sony on the removal of other OS on the PS3
 
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Foxi4

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If they start going after people for poor mechanical design of things like that then the electronics industry will probably implode... I have lost track of how many times poorly thought out laptop charger ports, USB ports, headphone jacks and more have caused problems in things. Ask any mechanically inclined person if they think a bit of lead free solder onto a thin layer of copper which in turn is bonded with epoxy to fibreglass weave, and then subjecting that to maybe 5:1 in your disadvantage lever loads.
On the other hand you reminded me earlier of the glory that is microswitches so I don't think we are talking right now.

That said I am curious now if I could make a retrofit kit for this to use a more robust positional sensor instead. Hopefully it is a voltage out rather than resistance or relative resistance measured as programmable selectable loads are not fun to play with.

On a different note for E3 one year before the shows (think it was the same year they got all excited about "asymmetric gaming" that never came) Microsoft had a little filler piece on the testing their controllers go through during R&D and such. I have never been able to find it since but the machines they had and the lengths they went to were quite impressive.
I should also say on 360 dpads if you (you being the reader of this comment) ever get a chance to test the rotatable dpad that came out later in the 360 lifetime then do so.

Edit

So company makes a defective product, one with considerable numbers of failures, making its product unworkable upon failure and drags its feet about fixing it, denying it is an issue on their end and so forth. That is pretty much the exact scenario class action suits are designed for.
Not sure how it's designed on the Switch, but if other consoles are anything to go by, it's probably the voltage - I imagine it's easier to measure with a microcontroller. As for the mechanical design of the XBO jack, fair point, but I generally like my components to be affixed to the board as opposed to floating between two boards on hopes, dreams and fairy dust. Not a spot of solder on the connector, they're relying entirely on the tension of the fasteners and a plastic pin to keep it in place. It's... bad. :P
 

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Joy-Con connectivity issues have plagued Nintendo Switch owners since the launch of the console, more than two years ago. Recently, Joy-Con drift has become a topic of interest once more, due to fans vocally expressing their disappointment. With no real solution in sight, it appears that a law firm is stepping in to see if they can make things happen. The law firm, called Chimicles Schwartz Kriner & Donaldson-Smith LLP, is a three-decade old institution that focuses on class action lawsuits. According to CSK&D, they have begun an investigation into a possible class-action lawsuit against Nintendo for selling faulty Joy-Cons that have phantom input and interfere with gaming.

You can fill out the form in the link below to offer your personal experiences with your Joy-Cons to help give the firm more information to work with. If enough reports come in, then CSK&D will move forward with their lawsuit. Whether this will result in a solution or even make it to court is unclear, but the threat of legal action could perhaps spur Nintendo into coming up with a fix or revision for future Joy-con releases.

:arrow: Source
I tried to fill out the form but it gives an error.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

server error.jpg
getting this error when filling it out...

Have tried multiple times. Has anybody actually filled it out?
 
Last edited by comput3rus3r,

SuzieJoeBob

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The root cause of both faults is the same - the stick is "sticking" to a value. That is, unless a part of the assembly straight up broke off and no longer moves. :P They're definitely less common though, I'll give you that. Sliding the slider back and forth must put less stress on the carbon traces and the wipers than using the stick, which makes sense. Alternatively, they changed the carbon trace material to something softer and the wipers just tear right through it.
The other issue is that Nintendo used super cheap and malleable metal for the wipers that LOVES to break off and leave deposits on the resistive PCB pads. The analog drift is almost always caused by the wipers deforming or leaving deposits. Anyone who has taken one apart can tell you that it is a wonder that these things even work.

Here is what the inside looks like (link to an Instructable):

https://www.instructables.com/id/Nintendo-Joycon-Drift-Fix-Not-Software-Related/
 
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FAST6191

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What?!? It's not fixed yet? I was under the impression that it was. Seems like somebody's just blowing a lot of hot air over nothing then.
Even if it was fixed in new batches their actions with regards to what are happily dubbed items not fit for purpose still allow for a lawsuit to be considered.
 

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