RetroArch is officially coming to Steam

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When you think emulator frontends, there's a high chance that RetroArch comes to mind. Its simple design and ease of use have made it an incredibly popular application, for years and years. And now, you'll be able to officially use RetroArch from the comfort of Steam. In an attempt to legitimize and grow their brand, Libretro will be releasing RetroArch on Steam, at the end of the month. It'll launch on July 30th, for free, and on Windows only, initially, with a Linux and MacOS version to follow shortly after. There won't be any difference between the Steam build and the one you can get normally on Libretro's official site, but the team is looking into incorporating features from Steam's platform in the future. This feature follows a recent RetroArch update, which lets users directly dump their official game discs to their computer, allowing for easy backups. You'll also be able to take a Sega CD, Saturn, PlayStation 1, or 3D0 disc. put it in your PC's disc drive, and run it directly on RetroArch, with more consoles to be supported in the future.

There are also plans in the works for developers of older IPs to release their games on Steam, through using RetroArch, though no further details are known about that yet.

:arrow: Source
 

smf

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The reverse is true here though, emulators are the value add for RetroArch since they aren't a required or necessary part of using it. And voluntary donations are not the same thing as being asked to pay, you're basically gifting money to the developers independent of whatever project(s) they might be working on at the time.

They consider them a required and necessary part though, which is why they refuse to stop distributing them.

Also libretro/RA would be nowhere without emulation, most users think of it only as an emulator.

So I find your argument rather weak.

Like someone trying to sell a rocket launcher with an egg whisk attachment and complaining that they are being stopped from selling a kitchen utensil.

I'd say "critical mass" is pretty hard to gauge. Some titles have been distributed a lot more than others, even without counting the rarest ones.

If there are a hundred thousand or a hundred million is kinda irrelevant. There is also very little overlap between emulator users (and especially RA users) and preservation.
 
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Radius4

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For a start they ship emulators with non commercial clauses that end up linking to GPL code, which is prohibited by GPL. They tried to come up with a licensing workround in libretro, or at least they claim that in public. Thanks to leaked chats we know that privately they admit it doesn't work, but if you try to discuss it in public then you get trolled and bullied.

RetroArch may be free to download, but they are making money out of donations. Which also goes against the non commercial use clauses.

If they only shipped GPL based emulators then there wouldn't be any legal problems (until a lawyer figures out a good DMCA anti circumvention argument anyway).



I was referring to your claim "and cause a greater number of people to preserve their own ROM collections as a result."

If you don't mean "dumping" them (i.e dumping roms, ripping cd's etc) then what did you mean by "preserve"?

I haven't read the whole EULA, but I figure the Steam EULA violates some GPL clauses. If that's a case someone who has copyright on RetroArch could file a complaint.
Of course then that code would be "cleaned up" so it no longer resembles the the copyrighted code.

Does the GPL have different requirements for statically vs dynamically linked modules with a covered work? (#GPLStaticVsDynamic)

No. Linking a GPL covered work statically or dynamically with other modules is making a combined work based on the GPL covered work. Thus, the terms and conditions of the GNU General Public License cover the whole combination. See also What legal issues come up if I use GPL-incompatible libraries with GPL software?

This could be a valid way to get them remove third party emulators on the steam distribution at least.
If RetroArch is just released as-is it's basically forcing everyone's emulator projects in Steam, so a concerned upstream who doesn't like that could file a complaint too I guess.

I wouldn't file a complaint because ultimately I LIKE RETROARCH but I don't like the hypocrisy. All these years ranting against others trying to "corner the emulation market" and monetize emulators, and then become the exact thing it was supposedly arguing against.
 
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kuwanger

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Ahhh, they tried that with a non-negligible amount of audio CDs (not just the 2005 sony scandal) and video DVDs, trust me :)

Sorry, I meant that more in the "imagine if [they still did it]". It's been only about a decade since places (Amazon started in 2007?, not sure about iTunes) started selling drm-free music, so it's a bit of a hubris to talk like that since it's hardly a "back in my day" time period. And admittedly Blu-ray has its own Java VM and Netflix/various other streaming services still use DRM, so we're not entirely out of the woods with video Honestly, I have no idea if we'll ever get rid of the DRM beast especially with video.

PS - And yea, I know DRM != a special program per album, but it's all really in the same sort of controlling mindset. :/ For that I can really invoke a "back in the day, we used to have digital copies of music in a physical form that couldn't be revoked!" Thankfully Sony's rootkit happened, in some ways. It showed just how little you can trust music companies.
 

smf

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I wouldn't file a complaint because ultimately I LIKE RETROARCH but I don't like the hypocrisy. All these years ranting against others trying to "corner the emulation market" and monetize emulators, and then become the exact thing it was supposedly arguing against.

They aren't against someone cornering the market and monetizing it, they are against everyone but them cornering the market and monetizing it. There is a difference & AFAICT they have always been consistent.

Thankfully Sony's rootkit happened, in some ways. It showed just how little you can trust music companies.

I think it shows a lack of technical awareness. I doubt the people who authorised it would have understood what it all meant.
 
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Does this mean SteamInput will finally work in RetroArch? Sucks hardcore that it currently doesn't work with in-home streaming because of that.
 

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I'll have to look into that more, thanks for the info
It depends on if you see cores as plugins or as implementations.

If you see cores as plugins specific to RA, they have to be under GPLv3 according to the FSF.

If you instead see them as implementations of the libretro API (which they are), they can still exist under their own licenses as the modifications made to them are under those licenses.

I'm personally more inclined to see it as the latter, since numerous tools that aren't RA that use the libretro API exist (such as OpenEmu.)

It's just as important to mention that basic RA doesn't come bundled with any cores, but rather allows them to be downloaded online through the tool, which is where this confusion about plugins vs implementations mostly seems to stern from.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

(also, iirc smf just has a bone to pick with them over some stuff involving MAME.)
 
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Silent_Gunner

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When you think emulator frontends, there's a high chance that RetroArch comes to mind. Its simple design and ease of use have made it an incredibly popular application, for years and years. And now, you'll be able to officially use RetroArch from the comfort of Steam. In an attempt to legitimize and grow their brand, Libretro will be releasing RetroArch on Steam, at the end of the month. It'll launch on July 30th, for free, and on Windows only, initially, with a Linux and MacOS version to follow shortly after. There won't be any difference between the Steam build and the one you can get normally on Libretro's official site, but the team is looking into incorporating features from Steam's platform in the future. This feature follows a recent RetroArch update, which lets users directly dump their official game discs to their computer, allowing for easy backups. You'll also be able to take a Sega CD, Saturn, PlayStation 1, or 3D0 disc. put it in your PC's disc drive, and run it directly on RetroArch, with more consoles to be supported in the future.

There are also plans in the works for developers of older IPs to release their games on Steam, through using RetroArch, though no further details are known about that yet.

:arrow: Source

Uhhh...

I mean, I already have RA as a shortcut as a Non-Steam game so...hooray?
 
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Silent_Gunner

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Or perhaps $35 per classic PSX, Sega Saturn, N64 game etc.
And who knows maybe shaders and filters could cost 0.99$ or be totally free of charge?

They pull this shit and I will simply stick with the current version of RA on my PC.

Not to mention, I know they skirted by with the XB1's Development Mode, but on an official platform like Steam? IDK, we'll see what happens, but they sure seem to be tempting fate by giving emulation a glorified release on a public platform when none of the main companies involved are necessarily approving of a solution to play retro games on a service that they have no monetary control over!
 
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NoNAND

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They pull this shit and I will simply stick with the current version of RA on my PC.

Not to mention, I know they skirted by with the XB1's Development Mode, but on an official platform like Steam? IDK, we'll see what happens, but they sure seem to be tempting fate by giving emulation a glorified release on a public platform when none of the main companies involved are necessarily approving of a solution to play retro games on a service that they have no monetary control over!
Why even bother with trying another version of retroarch if you've already got the standard version.
Imagine all the hate and backlash Steam night get thereof.
Gaming companies are far from pleased with a decision like this.
Imagine if Nintendo was a third party how badly they would react to this.
 
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shadow1w2

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For those worried about big N giving a stink about it, there's really nothing they can do and as an example the Disney Afternoon capcom game collection uses an NES emulator so I'm sure as long as no one tries to sell a mario game rom everyones good. Minus the guy who is dumb enough to sell a hacked mario rom but again shouldn't effect Retro Arch.

This also might help against those games being sold with emulators without permission on steam as those can have the emulator removed and just work on Retro Arch. Though achievements might have to be handled somehow. Either way it could clean up the legal issues there the emulator devs can't afford to deal with.
Hopefully just build respect for those devs and maybe make those clone consoles using emulators without permission look as shady as they should be but thats a stretch.

I look forward to buying game roms and isos directly from the devs/copyright owners for the game files as is so we can use what emulators we want and romhacks as we please all DRM free ish.
Would be a tad pointless but would be nice to see RA on GoG too.

Gonna be nice, all the luck to them.
Fingers crossed Sega just starts selling Saturn isos on Steam heh.
Also didn't know ripping tools were added finally, time to backup my old collection.

Oh also also, Anarchy Arcade could benefit from this too and other Steam applications that could just call up Retro Arch on Steam then make whatever game appear on a screen in game, that should be nifty too one day.
 
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Taleweaver

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Phew... Six pages, but I can barely find answers to the main question that pops in my mind : why?

I'm not against it, and the legal aspects... I wouldn't have thought so, but that it is coming proves me wrong, so that opinion is moot before I even mentioned it (though it apparently doesn't stop others). But really : what would the actual ADVANTAGES be? I mean... You can add shortcuts to non steam programs (games) to stream for some time now. Just by coincidence, retroarch was the one program I tested it with, but even so I afterward just ran retroarch (or even the games themselves through command line parameters) instead of starting steam for no reason.

To be fair, I'll mention the advantages I read almost the posts:

* more convenient. I could see an advantage if it keeps itself up to date or puts your configuration in the cloud rather than having it done again for each computer AND each core you add. But really... These seem like minor advantages, as it's not like the cores change that much
* easier configuration for game pads. I won't lie : that menu where you can remap your controls how you damn want them is so convenient that it's boring ("this is how it should be... But I literally have nothing else to say about it")

The thing is : once you've got things set up properly, you're set up anyway (at least for one console). So in the end, this is a matter of 'how much extra launchers do you want to start with your game?'. And to me, that's not worth it. If I have a game on both steam and gog, I always pick the latter to play. I presume others would make a different choice, but at this point I've got the idea that their decision isn't coming from reason but by valve loyalty(see also : heated valve VS epic arguments)
 

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I can see it being ok to allow a version of Retroarch onto Steam that doesn't have any cores installed by default, or readily allow for the loading of ROMs from your computer through the frontend (I'm sure people could hack the functionality back in, but what is the point when you can just download the build from the RetroArch website?).

When you open Retroarch, the frontend could allow for game selection from your library, emulator configuration and downloading cores, then as the OP suggests developers could sell their classic games as DLC.

I imagine that would avoid potential legal issues (that may or may not exist) and would allow developers to sell their old games again... the main problem is when it comes to BIOS requirements for certain consoles. That will always be a problem unless companies like Sony, Sega or Nintendo decide to actively support RetroArch for a cut (I can only imagine Sega choosing to do that, but for the Dreamcast and Saturn in they could do it in exchange for a cut on Saturn and Dreamcast games).

EDIT: Also, games offered as DLC could have default cores they would use (maybe allowing for overriding as a hidden non-essential feature), and, to simplify the interface for the public, downloading cores would be done as console pack (e.g. you would get all SNES cores by downloading the SNES support pack).
 
Last edited by Graxer,

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