The Illegal Immigration Non-Crisis in the USA

Xzi · Jul 12, 2019

SlasherGamer21 said:
Anyways on the topic...those illegal shits get what they deserve. They think they can just come up in here and take over our jobs so us Americans have less jobs to choose from and etc but nope they can't.

Yes, they can. And your anger over that is understandable, but entirely misdirected. Try blaming the corporations and business owners who are hiring illegals at well below minimum wage. As long as they can keep getting away with it, they'll keep doing it. As long as the law continues to be applied so unevenly between those at the top and everybody else, nothing is going to change.

notimp · Jul 12, 2019

What happened much more likely is the following.

Wages didn't rise in america in 40 years. The american dream of social mobility died (it did so as well in the rest of the world (edit: apart from China, India (and now South America again (free trade agreement with the EU)))). Make america great again' sounded great in that environment.

Economically you didn't achieve as much - but you kept down your foot heavily on the poorer nations again under Trump (america first), which raised immigration pressures again.

Which is just what the Trump administration likes - because it will order stumping down with an even heavier boot - and people like that.

At one point the boot becomes so heavy - that people in your own societies will rebell against it (think dead people in front of border walls). That point isn't now, or in the near future. Law and order is always something that they kind of like.

What did Trump actually achieve for your economy (despite continuing the fracking and gas boom - which does help (ruining the climate though)). I mean Apple is producing the Mac Pros in China again - they said publicly what the president said in terms of them wanting to produce two beautiful factories in america was wrong - and they never said it...

Just one example, but Trump certainly hasn't bootstrapped new economies. He actually punched a little heavier to increase margins.

And the result of that - actually is, and should be more immigration pressure towards the US - thats kind of how that works.

Xzi · Jul 12, 2019

notimp said:
Which is just what the Trump administration likes - because it will order stumping down with an even heavier boot - and people like that.

Exactly, everything is working as intended. His supporters get to cheer for the concentration camps, but meanwhile, more than enough illegals are still making their way into the country to provide cheap labor for all the corporations and businesses that want it. It's a win-win for the oligarchy.

Loyalty · Jul 12, 2019

notimp said:
Also - talk is cheap, and producing numbers usually isn't. So what ever an administration "says" (Obama so liberal sentiment, while he was actually 'deporter in chief') - usually is less reliable than statistics.

That is my point, you throw out things like this, and I saw it wasn't so... (remember I can't post links yet)

December 2010: Internal ICE Emails Reveal Padded Deportation Statistics

On October 8, 2010, Secretary Napolitano and ICE Director Morton announced that in 2010, ICE had “removed more illegal aliens than in any other period in the history of our nation.” On December 6, 2010, however, the Washington Post reports that internal ICE emails show that ICE padded its deportation statistics by including 19,422 removals from the previous fiscal year. The article also describes how ICE extended a Mexican repatriation program beyond its normal operation dates, adding 6,500 to its final removal numbers.

BTW... I don't get my news from any sources you claimed.... Not Fox, not CNN... but even if I did, it is a fallacy to condemn those sources just on saying they are bias. I hate the Washington Post, they are left wing nuts, but that does not mean some of what they report is not factual.

I just think that time has shown that the border has proven it lets more over than reported. Heck all one has to do is look at the demographics around you.

I just don't know how PEW knows how many illegals (and what country) is getting through when February 26, 2013: DHS Admits It Has No Metrics for Determining Whether Border Is Secure

None.... yet PEW knows.

April 24, 2013: Attorney General Eric Holder Declares Amnesty Is a “Civil Right”

March 12, 2014: DHS Secretary Admits that Obama Administration Manipulates Deportation Statistics

Testifying before the House Secretary Johnson admits that more than half of the 368,000 deportations reported by ICE for fiscal year 2013—touted as a record number of deportations—were actually due to arrests by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and would not have counted toward Ice's removal totals UNDER PREVIOUS Administrations.

Loyalty · Jul 12, 2019

Sorry seems I doubled posted... not used to this forum yet...

notimp · Jul 12, 2019

Loyalty said:
19,422 removals from the previous fiscal year

Doesnt matter in the overall statistics much. Yearly deportations of the Obama administration f.e. were 420.000 on average. 19k of that are 4.5% that doesnt reverse the trend.

Sounds like someone fudged numbers to reach goals. Somone in middle management probably (this is just a plain guess). It doesnt mean that the trend of a decline wasn't taking place - someone padded it though, and the media caught and reported on it. Thats the system working.

That should not be a reason to not trust public numbers at all. The lesson here is 'dont trut them blindly'. As said before, as soon as numbers are public - everyone can look at results and methods and criticize them.

Also PEW research center is independant, and probably doesnt only rely on state reported numbers in this case. So thats a plus as well.

Loyalty · Jul 12, 2019

notimp said:
Doesnt matter in the overall statistics much. Yearly deportations of the Obama administration f.e. were 420.000 on average. 19k of that are 4.5% that doesnt reverse the trend.

Sounds like someone fudged numbers to reach goals. Somone in middle management probably (this is just a plain guess). It doesnt mean that the trend of a decline wasn't taking place - someone padded it, and the media caught and reported on it. Thats the system working.

But they did it more than once... notice the 2013 numbers were fudged also. More than half were not truly deported. When you take half away, I don't see how "deporter in chief" is still accurate.

notimp · Jul 12, 2019

Ok they did. Probalbly not all angels either.

Doesnt reverse the trend.

(Not a huge scandal with the scope of "OMG the government is lying to us, we make decisions based on mostly minformation...", just a small - scandal no less.

)

cots · Jul 12, 2019

Sorry guys, I'm dropping out of the debate. Due to the moderation not being neutral (regarding the politics section) and then blatant hate shown towards the USA, our leadership and our way of life, I can no longer, in good faith participate on this site. If you're looking for any of my previous hosted guides and/or utilities, you won't find them here. Adios!

Loyalty · Jul 12, 2019

Sorry to hear that Cots... I just got here, I may do the same, who knows.

On subject....

September 12, 2014: Associated Press Reports Deportations Lowest Since 2007

According to an analysis of DHS data by the Associated Press, the Obama Administration is on pace to remove the fewest number of illegal immigrants since 2007. The report also notes that “as of early September, only 319 of the more than 59,000 immigrants who were caught traveling with their families have been returned to Central America.”

Rolf12 · Jul 12, 2019

cots said:
Sorry guys, I'm dropping out of the debate. Due to the moderation not being neutral (regarding the politics section) and then blatant hate shown towards the USA, our leadership and our way of life, I can no longer, in good faith participate on this site. If you're looking for any of my previous hosted guides and/or utilities, you won't find them here. Adios!

Sorry you feel like that. I definitely don't agree with a lot regarding the USA: leadership, social setup etc. Including some of your views. I believe that to many they are extreme, maybe even unhuman. Even provocatively so.
In other settings I have been too much and this resulted in me being expelled from that social setting. I realise not everybody wants to hear or accept too much without reacting strongly. Please try to have an objective view of yourself also, and find out if not you as well are to blame for the treatment here. Which seems to be not nice since you experience it like this.

I never had anything against you. May you find peace somewhere else, or even here if you decide to stay.

D34DL1N3R · Jul 12, 2019

SlasherGamer21 said:
As soon as I saw "cnn.com" I stopped reading as everything CNN says is absolute bullshit. Anyways on the topic...those illegal shits get what they deserve. They think they can just come up in here and take over our jobs so us Americans have less jobs to choose from and etc but nope they can't. The day America starts opening up their border freely is the day pigs fly. Case closed.

Nice bait attempt. Cracks me up. You are obviously 100% clueless.

cots said:
Sorry guys, I'm dropping out of the debate. Due to the moderation not being neutral (regarding the politics section) and then blatant hate shown towards the USA, our leadership and our way of life, I can no longer, in good faith participate on this site. If you're looking for any of my previous hosted guides and/or utilities, you won't find them here. Adios!

As if you're the one to talk about being neutral. Can you please move out of the USA too? The majority of us don't want you here. Russia or North Korea will probably welcome you with open arms. C'ya. Bye.

kevin corms · Jul 12, 2019

Lacius said:
What's going on with immigrant-holding and child-separation in this country is purely because of Trump and the Republicans.

It was happening before Trump, yet its because of him?

UltraDolphinRevolution · Jul 12, 2019

cots said:
Sorry guys, I'm dropping out of the debate. Due to the moderation not being neutral (regarding the politics section) and then blatant hate shown towards the USA, our leadership and our way of life, I can no longer, in good faith participate on this site. If you're looking for any of my previous hosted guides and/or utilities, you won't find them here. Adios!

A gaming forum should not suffer due to political differences. Hope you rethink your decision.

D34DL1N3R · Jul 12, 2019

UltraDolphinRevolution said:
A gaming forum should not suffer due to political differences. Hope you rethink your decision.

Not I. Cots brings this on themself each and every time. Over and over and over and over and...

They don't like or can't stand the heat? Then stop posting ones own political beliefs that have already been proven to be in the minority here, just to intentionally get a rise out of people. And anyone who has even so much as glanced at their typical posts realizes that it's exactly that. Trying to get a rise out of people, then crying about how everyone is against them and being treated unfairly. Boo hoo. Maybe shouldn't constantly try to push a heavy right-wing agenda under the guise of being completely neutral. Most of us see right through the act.

UltraDolphinRevolution · Jul 12, 2019

Does the user Cots consist of more than one person?

Anyway I just read his opening post and I wouldn't call it a "heavy right-wing agenda". However, I didn't follow the whole thread. If enforcing the border is right-wing, then most countries on this planet are right-wing, including communist ones.

That said, I do have sympathy with e.g. Venezuelans. Their government has made mistakes, but nobody can deny the economic warfare the USA engages in when it dislikes a country. The US has a history of treating its neighbors to the south badly, e.g. the Panama invasion of 1989 (the pretence was very similar to what Russia did in Ukraine, but the US only claimed to protect tens of thousands and hadn't already military stationed there; as far as I know). Also you could argue that the "mexification" of the southern border is sort of poetic justice for the American-Mexican war.

Lacius · Jul 12, 2019

SG854 said:
Why not? This is a illegal immigration thread. And it adds that immigration things handled by the Obama administration weren’t handled so great, so it’s not entirely on Trump and Republicans, it’s an on going problem from before.

My post wasn’t a but Obama but Trump. I was replying to someone else. Adding to what they already said. It wasn’t even look at Obama so don’t look at Trump.

kevin corms said:
It was happening before Trump, yet its because of him?

Because I wasn't talking about deportations. I was talking about deplorable holding conditions, holding times, child separation, and child deaths.

UltraDolphinRevolution · Jul 12, 2019

Are the immigrants only held due to the asylum process? Is there a limit to the detention time and what happens afterwards?

zomborg · Jul 12, 2019

cots said:
Sorry guys, I'm dropping out of the debate. Due to the moderation not being neutral (regarding the politics section) and then blatant hate shown towards the USA, our leadership and our way of life, I can no longer, in good faith participate on this site. If you're looking for any of my previous hosted guides and/or utilities, you won't find them here. Adios!

Sorry Cots my friend. I do not want to see you go. You could do like I have been doing recently.

Instead of letting them drive you off, just step back a little and take a break. That's what I did after the abortion thread. I would even make a conscious effort to not visit the politics forum.

Loyalty said:
Sorry to hear that Cots... I just got here, I may do the same, who knows.

On subject....

September 12, 2014: Associated Press Reports Deportations Lowest Since 2007

According to an analysis of DHS data by the Associated Press, the Obama Administration is on pace to remove the fewest number of illegal immigrants since 2007. The report also notes that “as of early September, only 319 of the more than 59,000 immigrants who were caught traveling with their families have been returned to Central America.”

Welcome to GBAtemp LOYALTY!
It is nice to see you here. By the way, you picked a tough one for your first debate

Notimp is probably the Temps toughest debater or at least the longest winded. Lol

As for the point you are making? I agree, I'm not confident that there was a drop in immigrants during that time period. If anything, I believe (although I have no evidence) that the obama administration were bringing immigrants to our country in secret.

SG854 · Jul 12, 2019

Lacius said:
Because I wasn't talking about deportations. I was talking about deplorable holding conditions, holding times, child separation, and child deaths.

And children had horrible conditions during Obama Administration as with also Trump Administration.

Xzi · Jul 12, 2019

SG854 said:
And children had horrible conditions during Obama Administration as with also Trump Administration.

It was not the policy of the Obama administration to separate children from parents at the border. There are times it still happened, usually because the child was suspected to be in danger, but it wasn't the policy across the board as it has been under Trump. Now CBP and ICE are the danger to these children because they either lose track of the parents, sexually assault these children in custody, or in several cases, let them die in custody.

The Illegal Immigration Non-Crisis in the USA

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