Having trust in our system wasn't given blindly. I learned through schooling and over the years to respect our system, even if some aspects of it may be corrupt. I respect the three branches of Government. That doesn't mean I trust their every move, but it also doesn't mean that I get the luxury of picking sides or playing favorites based on my own bias standards. If I were living in Somalia or Venezuela, I may have a different viewpoint, but that's aren't that bad. I don't hate my country and I have trust in our system, there's nothing wrong with that. People that are filled with hatred are the problem.
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Trump to issue Executive Order to Lower Drug Prices
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Having trust in our system wasn't given blindly. I learned through schooling and over the years to respect our system, even if some aspects of it may be corrupt. I respect the three branches of Government. That doesn't mean I trust their every move, but it also doesn't mean that I get the luxury of picking sides or playing favorites based on my own bias standards. If I were living in Somalia or Venezuela, I may have a different viewpoint, but that's aren't that bad. I don't hate my country and I have trust in our system, there's nothing wrong with that. People that are filled with hatred are the problem.
I have issues respecting something for what it is as much as what this particular iteration has done. After he was elected I often heard "I will respect him because he is president" which seems like a backwards way of setting about things, occasionally almost in a "nothing that happened before this matters" sense.
I am all for trying to get things to happen and not being an obstinate cunt but inherent/automatic respect for something that is a mere seat/room/building seems like a questionable approach to the world.
All that said in light of the later parts of the "education, free or not?" discussion the other day I going to find the bias standards claim a bit dubious, even if I don't disagree with the "boost that which you agree with" approach that such a topic seemed to indicate you preferred.
It's pretty simple. I'm Patriotic. I love my country. I'd fight and die for it. I support our way of life and our system of Government. I do this because of the many years I've been alive and the great education and services I receive. Nothing is perfect, I've had my problems and don't blindly trust anyone, but I respect my country and like our way of life. Sure, you could think this is "brainwashed" or "isn't independent thinking", but actually, critically thinking skills and my own free will are what allowed me to come to this conclusion.
I like to believe in something and hold values. If you don't that's fine, but I do, and if you can't understand or don't agree with it than that's your problem, not mine. I'm perfectly happy, sorry you're not. Maybe you'll find out what makes you happy some day down the road and if you do don't let anyone tell you different.
Orange Man Bad seems to be the sum extent of the replies to this topic, barely any even cover the topic at all, most are "yeah but it's trump so whatever"
Haters are going to hate. It's what they do. Just treat them with pity. Being full of hatred blinds the eyes and consumes the soul.
To accept the current system as it is, is to accept the multiple glaring issues which it has. The electoral college is an easy one to use as an example. All votes aren't equal as they should be in a democracy, and the result is inadvertent voter suppression in states which are overly blue/red, as people who are the opposite of the state's leaning will have a meaningless vote, and therefore not even bother voting. At the same time, the weight of each vote towards a seat is different, depending on the population of the state. The votes of people in large population states are much less valuable than people in rural states.
An overly extreme example is easy to understand. If 99% of the population decides to live in California, and the remaining 1% lives in the other 49 states, that 1% will have total control over the 99% in California. The hope when the electoral college system was created was that each state would grow at the same pace as the others. That couldn't happen in the long run.
(From a Canadian that LOVES the soap-opera that is: American politics)
What's with this assumption that someone disagreeing with your platitudes would cause them to be unhappy?
Last edited by barronwaffles,
Most people that are full of hate and distrust don't tend to be happy people, but you're right, it's an assumption and I could be wrong.
Not that my happiness came up at all, or is that relevant in all this, not to mention I am plenty happy if it should somehow be a factor in this.
Similarly I would not have laid a charge of brainwashed or hive mind/follow the herd thinking, more at the merits of the approach selected. If I had to trust in things I would be the underlying principles, and every step taken would need to be justified based on those and the will of the people, saving where the will of the people contradicts the principles for some reason and with considerable more effort put into the justification if the people lack the capacity (we have experts for a reason) or will to act; the degree of these being where more of the interesting debate happens.
"I receive"
OK but what about the others? Are there being done right by? Be it in said services or treatment at large? Could what you have got been better still? If I look at the US it is lacking, or perhaps lagging, in a lot of areas the rest of the world has sorted. If a system is not producing good results despite all the advantages or essentially the same starting points I have to start questioning the system to some extent, or seeing where it might need some grease to get going again.
I understand that there are negative aspects to the system, but overall I still respect it. There's tons of stuff I disagree with and I don't blindly trust anyone, but I respect our system and way of life and respect the law of the land. I know that our voting system isn't perfect, but I also understand that depending on who actually wins, that the problems then are non-existent for them, that's if they win, which just demonstrates they can't handle losing (aka they are poor losers).
I could go on about particular things I agree with or disagree with, but I'm not addressing single issues, I'm addressing the overall respect I have for our country and way of life. Which, I do on my own free will using the acclaimed critically thinking skills, that are supposed to be so necessary for a superior viewpoint (which, they aren't, but I'm using them anyway, just to make a point).
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This is good for all Americans, unless it doesn't actually lower drug prices for middle/lower class. Then I will be sad 
When it comes down to it most people only care about the services they receive. I know it's "cool" to discuss issues that are irrelevant to ones personal self and claim you're out to save the human race, but when it comes down to it you're only really looking out for yourself and only saying these things just to satisfy you own position and ego, which is naturally how it usually goes, so it's understandable. Not many people live their lives to serve others and would otherwise discourage doing so.
Most people in our system aren't suffering by any extent. We're a first world country. Sure, we have minorities that have problems, but the world isn't perfect and you'll find them everywhere. It's not possible to create an Utopia or a perfect world, because everyone is different and like I said, most people don't fight for the betterment of mankind, only for themselves, with is natural and in baked into our instinct. So I understand that. It's also natural to want to control everything and play God.
Even when times get tough or I find something that I don't like going on, I still trust in our Government and respect our way of life. I don't change my core values or beliefs on a dime based on the popular opinion or to fit in, I don't seek to be "cool", especially if that means I have to go around blindly hating things. Hell, I've been jailed for things I haven't done, I've been abused, my childhood wasn't ideal, I've been homeless, I'm a minority, but I still have faith and have hope. Those are things I chose hold onto which in turn makes me happy. Sure, not all of time, but at least I'm not full of hatred and vile all of the time and let it consume me to the point where I am not doing anyone any good, especially myself.
Ah yes its the exact same play as the midterms and again the right wing will obviously fall for it
What happened to that lower/middle class tax-cut that was promised before the midterms? Fox news talked about it extensively and then I guess forgot about it after the country-wide humiliating midterm defeats. This is just a campaign promise to rile up some votes, theres literally 0% chance Trump will do anything that that hurts the bottom line of already made multi-millionaires.
What happened to that lower/middle class tax-cut that was promised before the midterms? Fox news talked about it extensively and then I guess forgot about it after the country-wide humiliating midterm defeats. This is just a campaign promise to rile up some votes, theres literally 0% chance Trump will do anything that that hurts the bottom line of already made multi-millionaires.
This is good for all Americans, unless it doesn't actually lower drug prices for middle/lower class. Then I will be sad
Yes, it'll be great for everyone, if it effects everyone, but right now rich people aren't the ones suffering from high prices of medications. If you're rich and in power, high drug prices don't effect you much. If the prices do get decreased, it'll literally be saving lives, including mine, if I ever lose my health insurance. Hey, I'm not going not bitch about the person who's doing this or try to prevent it, because I rather stay alive.
He wants a pat on the back for 100 drugs getting cheaper last year, ignoring that over 3000 hiked prices.
Meanwhile, just yesterday, they once again tried to cut people with preexisting conditions out of Healthcare.
This order will just be another nothing burger.
Meanwhile, just yesterday, they once again tried to cut people with preexisting conditions out of Healthcare.
This order will just be another nothing burger.
Yep, overall, I like the way of life over there. It's basically the same mindset of how to live your life as Canada.
Canadian's grumble if their party isn't in power, but it's nowhere near as bad as the anger in the US (Both sides are guilty of it). It will take a true person of the people to be able to bridge the gap between the two parties in the future. Trump definitely isn't the one to do that though.
If I had to choose, I'd prefer to live in Canada, as they do more things right than they do wrong within the government in comparison. Lifestyles are basically the same, and the laws of the land are basically the same as well. The only reason I'm not living there now, is the damn weather. God I hate winter!
If we are to take it back to the topic at hand then as far as medicine prices go I am seeing plenty of people throughout US society suffer in ways that are almost unimaginable to most of the rest of the developed world, similarly for what you get then education is expensive and social safety nets are not all that great there either. Worse on the healthcare front is it is not even just a stylistic choice -- the US government alone pumps out crazy sums per person compared to similarly tech based medicine countries of wildly varying genetic makeups, go from just gov based stuff and instead look at GDP and it is worse still.
Similarly it is not hippy drippy feelings that mainly drive me -- I want nice roads that no company will care enough to fund for my leisure, I want to be able to start a business and have a wide selection of highly trained people competing for my jobs and able to afford the swish ends of my services, I want educated people being able to do things I don't even know about but ultimately benefit from... and I am unable to make that happen by myself. What little remains of what some might call empathy in me does cause me to pause when I see someone with an effectively trivial to solve problem not have it solved despite everywhere else in the world seeming to manage OK but ultimately it is pragmatism that goes further for me.
Ask Fox? I don't see why so many people focus on a single cable TV channel that runs a website that happens to have three real news broadcasts a day, followed by opinion based entertainment shows as some sort of definitive source for a particular party. That's sort of like saying CNN is the #1 default resource and mouthpiece for the Democratic party. That's hilarious.
You'd also imagine if the only people benefiting from the current administrations policies were the ruling class and the 1% that the other 99% wouldn't be voting for more moderate candidates that will keep the current system going just about the way it's currently going. I'd imagine if the rest of us were actually suffering that this would be reflected in the way we're voting, but as this isn't the case I'd say people are simply claiming the "sky is falling", when it's not.
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I've luckily not ever been in the position were I couldn't afford the medication I take on a daily basis that keeps me alive, but I've seen what not having the various medications I take daily can do to people that can't afford it. It's horrible. I don't see any reason why lowering the medications prices is going to be a bad thing. If in your country it costs 75% less to purchase the same medication it does in the USA, than I see no reason why we should be paying that extra amount when the only reason it's more expensive is that the drug company simply wants a higher profit.
Democracy and the Lizards The sky doesn't have to be falling for the system to be terrible. People put up with a lot of horrible--European serfdom was really horrible. Just being alive and eeking out an existence that's about as good as your dad or mom, that's all people expect. When things turn out bad, they can always look at their neighbor doing okay and figure they were just the unlucky one. It takes something like a Great Depression or a World War before people suddenly see that a dramatic shift can happen, and then people start really rioting. Also, plenty of deflation.. The system has been mostly rigged through the Federal Reserve to avoid most that stuff. Same with the UN and the security council.
If that's all you want or need, no matter how terrible things are, that's obviously your business. It's rather absurd to pretend, though, that people don't take mediocre and convince themselves what they vote for is moderate when what they constantly vote for stability at all costs. Stability at all costs is terrible.
While affording is one thing, and I will lump simple burdens in that, it is also what I see keep people working soul or body crushing jobs because insurance (or past debts from healthcare) for them or their family, not go self employed (or put more effort into it rather than keep it as a side project), not take the job at the fun company that might go pop if it does not have the next project go OK, not take the job that involves moving because of gaps, not search longer to find a decent job because of gaps, opt to live at 60% with serious medication bills because surgery will bankrupt them, delay things until it is critical for the same reasons... there are so many knock on and hidden effects.
The question from me however is is this action likely to be a long term solution (or be the thing that kicks off on/covers people until it is there) in addition to the questions of use of power for it. The reason it might cost 75% less is because they are negotiating in bulk (even the biggest insurance providers seem to be a fraction of what smaller countries bring to the table), able to put down contracts (predictable income), maybe have a bit less red tape (don't know if the insurance providers have their own regs here, though they do limit usage of a lot of things. FDA regs are usually in line with the rest of the world) and that is far easier. If arbitrarily capping a market (for a nation so fond of "freedom" a rather strong act) then is that likely to do much good in the long term or all those other things mentioned in the first sentence?
I have wondered at times if the US paying so much also means other companies are more likely to negotiate outside the US as the US provides the bulk and everything else is just gravy on top of it all.
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